Kip Hawley is an Idiot

TheBlackCat · Oct 1, 2006, 05:38 PM

I was detained at the TSA checkpoint for about 25 minutes today

Quote:

I was detained for about 25 minutes today after passing though the TSA checkpoint at MKE terminal E.

I thought about posting this in the other treads devoted to their experience today under the new new liquids-are-okay-in-a-quart bag rule, but I decided it needed its own thread.

Yesterday, while discussing the new rules a fellow Flyertalker suggested we write "Kip Hawley is an Idiot" on the outside of our clear plastic quart bags. So I did just that.

At the MKE "E" checkpoint I placed my laptop in one bin, and my shoes, cell phone and quart bag in a second bin. The TSA guy who was pushing bags and bins into the X-ray machine took a good hard look, and then as the bag when though the X-ray I think he told the X-ray operator to call for a bag check/explosive swab on my roller bag to slow me down. He went strait to the TSA Supervisor on duty and boy did he come marching over to the checkpoint with fire in his eyes!

He grabbed the baggie as it came out of the X-ray and asked if it was mine. After responding yes, he pointed at my comment and demanded to know "What is this supposed to mean?" "It could me a lot of things, it happens to be an opinion on mine." "You can't write things like this" he said, "You mean my First Amendment right to freedom of speech doesn't apply here?" "Out there (pointing pass the id checkers) not while in here (pointing down) was his response."

At this point I chuckled, just looking at him wondering if he just realized how foolish that comment was, but I think my laugh pushed him over the edge as he got really angry at this point. A Milwaukee County Sheriffs deputy was summoned - I would have left at this point, but he had my quart bag with my toothpaste and hair gel.

When the deputy got over the TSA supervisor showed him the bag and told him what had happened to that point. After he had finished I started to remind him he had left out his statement that my First Amendment rights didn't apply "here" but was cut off by the deputy who demanding my ID. I asked if I was under arrest, and his response was "Right now you are not under arrest, you are being detained." I produced my passport and he walked off with it and called in my name to see if I had any outstanding warrants, etc. The TSA supervisor picked up the phone about 20 feet away and called someone? At this point two more officers were near by and I struck up a conversation with the female officer who was making sure I kept put. I explained to her who Kip Hawley was, why I though he was an idiot, and my surprise that the TSA Supervisor felt my First Amendment rights didn't' apply at the TSA checkpoint. She didn't say much.

After he was assured I didn't have any warrants out the first office came back and I had my first chance to really speak, I explained that I was just expressing my opinion and my writing should be protected my by First Amendment rights. When he didn't respond, I then repeated that the TSA Supervisor stated my First Amendment rights didn't apply at the TSA check point and I asked if he (the deputy) agreed that was the case. He responded by saying "You can't yell fire in a crowed theater, there are limits to your rights.

At this point I chucked again

I asked how this was even remotely like shouting "Fire" in a crowd, and his answer was "Perhaps your comments made them feel threatened."

At about this point the TSA Supervisor finished up his phone call, and summoned the officer back over. They talked for about 2 minutes, and then both came back over. The officer pulled out his pad and asked for my address and I asked why he needed it. "For the report I have to file since I was summoned here" I started to give it, when I noticed the TSA Supervisor was writing it down as well, so I stopped and asked why he needed it. He said he needed to file an incident report too, and I took the opportunity to ask what the resolution of the incident was, did I do anything wrong? Are you going to ask the officer to arrest me? He said no, I was free to go, but he was going to confiscate my bag. I asked "If I did nothing wrong, why would you take my bag" He pointed to a posted sign that said something about reusing plastic bags (the MKE TSA was providing quart sized zipper bags to pax today) I let him know that I had brought my bag from home and would not be letting him take it. He then asked for permission of photograph it, which I agreed too.

While he walked away to get the camera I finished giving my address to the deputy, and he told my "You're free to go" Total time, about 25 minutes

After the TSA Supervisor took the photo I followed him back to his desk - he had a pretty shocked look on his face when he turned around and saw me there, and we talked for about 5 minutes, but when he rolled his eyes at me I quickly realized that he wasn't going to listen to anything I said.

I have a couple of questions:
Could I have refused to provide my ID and/or address to the officer since I wasn't under arrest?
When asked for my ID do I have to hand it over or can I hang on to it? By giving it to the deputy, he walked of with it and I felt stuck.

CNN has reported on the stroy as well.

Quote:

A TSA spokeswoman acknowledged a man was stopped, but likened the incident to cases in which people inappropriately joke about bombs. She said the man was "a little combative" and that he was detained only a few minutes.

Right, so calling someone an idiot is equivalent to threating to kill people? Wow, this guy was right. Freedom of speech really is gone when insulting an appointed government official is considered legally equivalent to threatining mass murder.

And according to the Sheriff's office,

Quote:

There is no indication that he was combative

Falstaff · Oct 1, 2006, 06:16 PM

ha ha...
I've been wrestled to the ground at a TSA checkpoint at SEATAC..LOL..
I was being escorted by a TSA employee but when I passed ahead of several hundred passengers I heard someone yell, HALT..so naturally I did..I was then tackled to the floor with my shoes in my right hand and my laptop bag in the other..A total misunderstanding of course, as I was quickly returned to a standing position by several other guards, and the escort reminded the man who tackled me that I was her responsibility and I was late for a plane and I had already been cleared..LOL...
tsk tsk..
I like getting apologies from folks like that..
but better yet...
no full body cavity search..

Maddogg6 · Oct 1, 2006, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBlackCat

Right, so calling someone an idiot is equivalent to threating to kill people? Wow, this guy was right. Freedom of speech really is gone when insulting an appointed government official is considered legally equivalent to threatining mass murder.

Zeig hiel mien zeur (spelling - who cares - or is mis-spelling a 'terrorist' activity or considered 'combatant' now a days too....)

TSA screeners are LESS than rent-a-cops - with twice the ego...
And of course their supervisors will back em up - becuase they hired these ego maniacs.

I hope this guy sues the local TSA office for all they got.
The ACLU surely are on this case - I hope.

SFOSOK · Oct 1, 2006, 09:07 PM

I'm surprised the person checking his bags even knew who that was.

OmegaRED · Oct 2, 2006, 08:40 AM

As if a terrorist would write a political statement on their bags to attract attention. I guess they figure a terrorist might think we'd think that so he'd put a bomb in it

Sandok · Oct 2, 2006, 08:50 AM

Those security checks in the US are just blown way out of proportion... Here in CH, you just step onto the plane and voilà! Barely any hassle...

In the US, god you people are paranoid.

OmegaRED · Oct 2, 2006, 08:51 AM

Even paranoids have enemies.

Pompey · Oct 2, 2006, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandok

Those security checks in the US are just blown way out of proportion... Here in CH, you just step onto the plane and voilà! Barely any hassle...

In the US, god you people are paranoid.

I think it depends on how big the airport is.

I’ve been to 3 airports in NZ. Wellington and Auckland had security checks and x-ray machines (Auckland’s was much more restrictive) but Hamilton didn’t really have anything.
Hamilton isn’t exactly a hub to put it nicely.

Sandok · Oct 2, 2006, 09:37 AM

Well course we have the x-ray machines but that's it. Nothing else. No shoe sniffing, strip search or anything. And you can write what you want

TheBlackCat · Oct 2, 2006, 05:18 PM

Not to mention those new puffers. Those things feel weird.

Pompey · Oct 3, 2006, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandok

Well course we have the x-ray machines but that's it. Nothing else. No shoe sniffing, strip search or anything. And you can write what you want

You only get a strip search if you do something to make them think your smuggling stuff.

OMG you know what you should do?
Wear really baggy clothes and stuff them with more clothes. Then tape an alarm clock to a backpack with rocks in it. Then as you waddle into the airport and everyone stares in horror at you say in a nice loud voice "Alright, nobody use a cell phone around me until I’m in the departure lounge". Then sue them for racial profiling.

If you live ill give you a cookie!
BTW only do that if you know the security guards are un-armed.

However if theyre armed ill give you TWO cookies..

**temeteus82** · Oct 3, 2006, 10:22 AM

BTW. EU and USA don't have agreement about airliners giving passengers info to American authorities. So there might bee halt on EU-USA flight in coming days. That will include EU and USA based carriers. Why you might ask.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBC News

European Court of Justice ruled in May that it had not been given a suitable legal foundation in European law.

ekinlegend · Oct 5, 2006, 08:20 AM

Great story. Love reading about how people plan beforehand on how to test the system, then write about it afterwards.

Did a simple search and found this website discussing the story:

Quote:

Some smart-ass “American citizen” decided to “exercise constitutional rights” or whatever, and there was hell to pay! The story: A frequent flyer bravely decided to torment TSA screeners by writing “Kip Hawley is an idiot” with a Sharpie on his gallon ziploc bag holding today’s allowed hair gel and toothpaste. Even though most of the screeners had no idea who Kip Hawley is — he runs the TSA — the shocking words were enough to put the traveler through a training-wheels version of the police state.
Read the whole dumb-yet-sad tale, after the jump.
The passenger in question was flying out of MKE, the Milwaukee hub, and made this crazy plan with another business-travel buddy to harass TSA screeners by marking the ridiculous new “liquid ziplocs” with a message to the chief.

(The same article posted by the OP is then quoted in this spot)

This is pathetic in many ways, but it also serves as a lesson to the bigshot white business traveler who thinks he has rights or whatever. Insulting the TSA chief on a ziploc is the White Person’s version of Driving While Black. Get used to it, suckers. And you won’t be so smug once the goons start putting a slug in your skull, will you?

http://www.wonkette.com/politics/tsa...iot-203492.php

merry · Oct 5, 2006, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandok

And you can write what you want

Why don't you try "hang the murderers of tian-an-men", you'll get the spelling right. Or CH stands for Confederation Helvetique?

hyperl1t3 · Oct 20, 2006, 01:34 AM

lol, i wonder how much trouble you'd get in for quoting "kill whitey" in sharpie.

TheBlackCat · Oct 20, 2006, 03:49 AM

That is a direct threat, which is quite different. This is just a personal insult, no threat or even hint of violence whatsoever.

hyperl1t3 · Oct 20, 2006, 04:06 AM

ok, "kill whitey" noting also a quote from chris farley?

Oct 1, 2006, 06:16 PM	#2
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	ha ha... I've been wrestled to the ground at a TSA checkpoint at SEATAC..LOL.. I was being escorted by a TSA employee but when I passed ahead of several hundred passengers I heard someone yell, HALT..so naturally I did..I was then tackled to the floor with my shoes in my right hand and my laptop bag in the other..A total misunderstanding of course, as I was quickly returned to a standing position by several other guards, and the escort reminded the man who tackled me that I was her responsibility and I was late for a plane and I had already been cleared..LOL... tsk tsk.. I like getting apologies from folks like that.. but better yet... no full body cavity search.. __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Oct 1, 2006, 09:07 PM	#4
SFOSOK 939 Goin Strong Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ontario Posts: 7,033 Rep Power: 90 System Specs	I'm surprised the person checking his bags even knew who that was. __________________ Warning - Explicit Content Preceeding METAL!!

Oct 2, 2006, 08:40 AM	#5
OmegaRED Relapsed Gamer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ottawa , Canada Posts: 5,688 Rep Power: 173 System Specs	As if a terrorist would write a political statement on their bags to attract attention. I guess they figure a terrorist might think we'd think that so he'd put a bomb in it __________________ E Penis Specs: <------------- See System Specs

Oct 2, 2006, 08:51 AM	#7
OmegaRED Relapsed Gamer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ottawa , Canada Posts: 5,688 Rep Power: 173 System Specs	Even paranoids have enemies. __________________ E Penis Specs: <------------- See System Specs

Oct 2, 2006, 05:18 PM	Thread Starter #10
TheBlackCat DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Searching for the Candle in the Dark Posts: 567 Rep Power: 0	Not to mention those new puffers. Those things feel weird. __________________ [color=#000000]There is always an easy solution to every human problem—neat, plausible and wrong.[/color] -H. L. Mencken

Oct 2, 2006, 08:50 AM	#6
Sandok DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 9,472 Rep Power: 0	Those security checks in the US are just blown way out of proportion... Here in CH, you just step onto the plane and voilà! Barely any hassle... In the US, god you people are paranoid.

Oct 2, 2006, 09:37 AM	#9
Sandok DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 9,472 Rep Power: 0	Well course we have the x-ray machines but that's it. Nothing else. No shoe sniffing, strip search or anything. And you can write what you want

Oct 20, 2006, 01:34 AM	#15
hyperl1t3 DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 28 Rep Power: 0	lol, i wonder how much trouble you'd get in for quoting "kill whitey" in sharpie.

Oct 20, 2006, 03:49 AM	Thread Starter #16
TheBlackCat DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Searching for the Candle in the Dark Posts: 567 Rep Power: 0	That is a direct threat, which is quite different. This is just a personal insult, no threat or even hint of violence whatsoever. __________________ [color=#000000]There is always an easy solution to every human problem—neat, plausible and wrong.[/color] -H. L. Mencken

Oct 20, 2006, 04:06 AM	#17
hyperl1t3 DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 28 Rep Power: 0	ok, "kill whitey" noting also a quote from chris farley?