bush and blair

ToshiroOC · Mar 29, 2003, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fallang_jeff
I am curious why you would use a quote from him? He is a poor reference in my opinion. I wonder if everyone else knows what kind of person GOERING really was, I understood him to be a poor planner, a poorer general, and a thief and drug abuser, is this an analogy? or intellectual popcorn..

The point of posting that was because a Nazi was advocating exactly what so many pro-war people are doing right now - calling the anti-war advocates unpatriotic and a danger to our country, etc.

Falstaff · Mar 29, 2003, 04:51 AM

And I can fight only for something that I love, love only what I respect, and respect only what I at least know.
Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945), Mein Kampf

ToshiroOC · Mar 29, 2003, 06:55 AM

<shrug> I guess all it means then is that madmen can make sense sometimes

Falstaff · Mar 29, 2003, 07:19 AM

Saddam has some good ones as well, within the context of a leader of his country, ha ha....can't knock him for his will power...

~~bluelight~~ · Mar 29, 2003, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ToshiroOC
<shrug> I guess all it means then is that madmen can make sense sometimes

No matter what...the qoute was clairifying.It says it all in a very simple way.It is exactly like Goring says.

The mechanisms are exactly the same wheter it is Hitler Stalin or anyone else applying them.

This is also perfectly described in the book 1984 by George Orwell.

A book that was written about the communists system...(maybe..) but is applicable to any repressive system.

Target an enemy...accuse an internal group as part of this enemy....and bang...you are off... This is also the way this war has been handled.

Bluelight

FuNsTeR · Mar 29, 2003, 12:08 PM

Hermann Goering might have been many things ie a poor leader etc .... but he was a top class fighter pilot Germany's top fighter pilot to have survived the first world war , i believe he had around 40 kills

Falstaff · Mar 29, 2003, 12:48 PM

Animal farm and 1984 are quotable classics, good one Bluelight..ha ha...I often think of the overwhelming power of the secret government and secret police as "orwellian"...touche!

Falstaff · Mar 29, 2003, 12:51 PM

Want to put a socialist spin on this whole thing?...go here..http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/ma...sh-m20.shtml..

~~bluelight~~ · Mar 29, 2003, 02:22 PM

The link is dead Jeff

Bluey

raid517 · Mar 29, 2003, 03:36 PM

Ahh... I think some people are getting socialism confused with communism here... They are not the same thing.

Q

Falstaff · Mar 29, 2003, 04:33 PM

www.wsws.org. should be okay..sorry, pulled it of my daughters term paper..

Falstaff · Mar 29, 2003, 04:39 PM

off track here I know, but here goes....

Communism
1. The government is in control of all the productive resources.

2. The government gains control in one rapid movement rather than through a slow change.

3. Change is brought about by violence and force.

4. When the government seizes private property it does not give any compensation to the owners for their loss.

Socialism
1. Public ownership covers only a section of the productive resources.

2. The government gains control gradually.

3. Changes are made through legal methods; the people vote to make changes.

4. The government gives compensation to the owners of the property taken for public use.

Since Bush and Blair are taking shots from the left and the right, this might seem oddly out of place, but I see governments gradually becoming more socialist in the future, with democratic enhancements of course...but people will slowly and gradually turn over all control to their governments...
I know that sounds cynical...so I will keep my "rose" colored glasses on...ha ha

Reuter · Mar 29, 2003, 06:07 PM

Sorry, but Goering was far from Germany's top fighter pilot in ww I.
Men Like Bruno Loerzer, Lothar von Richthoven and not to forget Ernst Udet(72 victories) were far more succesfull and all survived the war.
In fact Goering was regarded inferior by this supurb pilots and was never invited on the post war reunies from Jasta 11.
In the last decisive months of that war Goering acted as an administrator, telling others what to do, but was to afraid to participate in any of the missions.
Thats why the other aces just disregarded him after the war.

ToshiroOC · Mar 29, 2003, 08:36 PM

fallang_jeff, I saw that phrase under your name - if I'm reading it correctly, then in German, it's properly spelled "Was ist los?"

(translation for non-german-speakers: What's wrong?)

Dawnrazor · Mar 29, 2003, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by raid517
In what way Jeff? A lot of people around the world rely on the BBC as their only independent source of news. Mind you, they did refuse to report on Moor's speech for the first 36 hours or so after it was made - and it took complaints from viewers before they opted to show it. They do only give one slant on the news, which is the allied slant, but oh well, propaganda is an inescapable consequence of war. I think we will all probably only get the real story when this war is over.

Q

And even giving the allied slant, their news is still more balanced than what you get from Fox or CNN. THe BBC has always had a reputation for being more or less unbaised in it's reporting.

Moore on the other hand is very biased, but I tend to agree with him so it doesn't bother me

Falstaff · Mar 29, 2003, 09:34 PM

It's a joke, one of my collegues read the threads and he is German, from the Sudeten land, he is trying to correct my german, before I travel next year, It's supposed to mean "whats going on?" forgive me but that is the phonetic translation,I speak Japanese and old habits die hard, ha ha

Mar 29, 2003, 04:51 AM	#32
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	OKEY DOKEY And I can fight only for something that I love, love only what I respect, and respect only what I at least know. Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945), Mein Kampf

Mar 29, 2003, 06:55 AM	#33
ToshiroOC Unbiased. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 4,812 Rep Power: 0	<shrug> I guess all it means then is that madmen can make sense sometimes __________________ [img][/img] [color=White]Peace be with you, Joe.[/color] Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

Mar 29, 2003, 07:19 AM	#34
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	yeh, you got it... Saddam has some good ones as well, within the context of a leader of his country, ha ha....can't knock him for his will power... __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Mar 29, 2003, 12:08 PM	#36
FuNsTeR Caledonian and Proud Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Darkest Ayrshire Posts: 1,305 Rep Power: 88 System Specs	Hermann Goering might have been many things ie a poor leader etc .... but he was a top class fighter pilot Germany's top fighter pilot to have survived the first world war , i believe he had around 40 kills __________________ "They say when you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear satanic messages ..... but that's nothing, if you play it forward it will install Windows"

Mar 29, 2003, 12:48 PM	#37
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	I prefer Orwell Animal farm and 1984 are quotable classics, good one Bluelight..ha ha...I often think of the overwhelming power of the secret government and secret police as "orwellian"...touche! __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Mar 29, 2003, 12:51 PM	#38
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	Want more? Want to put a socialist spin on this whole thing?...go here..http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/ma...sh-m20.shtml.. __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Mar 29, 2003, 02:22 PM	#39
~~bluelight~~ Banned Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,328 Rep Power: 0	The link is dead Jeff Bluey

Mar 29, 2003, 03:36 PM	#40
raid517 DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,518 Rep Power: 0	Ahh... I think some people are getting socialism confused with communism here... They are not the same thing. Q

Mar 29, 2003, 04:33 PM	#41
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	try this one www.wsws.org. should be okay..sorry, pulled it of my daughters term paper.. __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Mar 29, 2003, 04:39 PM	#42
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	communism vs socialism off track here I know, but here goes.... Communism 1. The government is in control of all the productive resources. 2. The government gains control in one rapid movement rather than through a slow change. 3. Change is brought about by violence and force. 4. When the government seizes private property it does not give any compensation to the owners for their loss. Socialism 1. Public ownership covers only a section of the productive resources. 2. The government gains control gradually. 3. Changes are made through legal methods; the people vote to make changes. 4. The government gives compensation to the owners of the property taken for public use. Since Bush and Blair are taking shots from the left and the right, this might seem oddly out of place, but I see governments gradually becoming more socialist in the future, with democratic enhancements of course...but people will slowly and gradually turn over all control to their governments... I know that sounds cynical...so I will keep my "rose" colored glasses on...ha ha

Mar 29, 2003, 06:07 PM	#43
Reuter DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Belgium, three feet from my monitor Posts: 55 Rep Power: 0	Sorry, but Goering was far from Germany's top fighter pilot in ww I. Men Like Bruno Loerzer, Lothar von Richthoven and not to forget Ernst Udet(72 victories) were far more succesfull and all survived the war. In fact Goering was regarded inferior by this supurb pilots and was never invited on the post war reunies from Jasta 11. In the last decisive months of that war Goering acted as an administrator, telling others what to do, but was to afraid to participate in any of the missions. Thats why the other aces just disregarded him after the war.

Mar 29, 2003, 08:36 PM	#44
ToshiroOC Unbiased. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 4,812 Rep Power: 0	fallang_jeff, I saw that phrase under your name - if I'm reading it correctly, then in German, it's properly spelled "Was ist los?" (translation for non-german-speakers: What's wrong?) __________________ [img][/img] [color=White]Peace be with you, Joe.[/color] Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

Mar 29, 2003, 09:34 PM	#46
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	RAID517 It's a joke, one of my collegues read the threads and he is German, from the Sudeten land, he is trying to correct my german, before I travel next year, It's supposed to mean "whats going on?" forgive me but that is the phonetic translation,I speak Japanese and old habits die hard, ha ha __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."