SH4President

Heroic act by coalition-troops when a car drove up too a roadblock near Najaf , Iraq.
The soldiers told the driver too stop but the car keept driving.
The soldiers now opened fire and halted the car.
When the car was inspected the coalition found 13 passangers, all women and children.
7 was killed.
Good going by the heroic coalition soldiers.
They haveto make USA and England proud!!!

Falstaff

The driver, an IRAQ male, refused to stop, after two warnings verbal and from weapons, he continued even after the tires and engine were damaged, then headed straight for a patrol, within the rules of engagement, these soldiers acted according to their orders. this was inevitable, the only logical conclusion is that this driver martyred his passengers to stir up further resentment against coalition forces. If I was there, and I was ordered to shoot, I would definitely follow my orders, then attend to the wounded. You might try putting yourself in the place of the driver or the soldiers following orders...Your sarcasm is misplaced in my opinion, I am personally more concerned about the civilians that Hussein intends to martyr in the future and ways to prevent it, because I forsee this happening alot the closer we get to Bagdad

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SH4President

You must bee real proud too bee american today.
Yous boys doing so well in Iraq. Following the rules of engagement and everything.

The only thing thats misplaced myfriend, is the coalition-troops. They are somewhere they shouldnt bee.

GOG

Yes, the civilians refused to stop when soldiers of a foreign army that donesn't belong there told them to do so. Has it not occured to you that they were afraid? Your "soldiers" are responsible for 1/5 of the Brittish casualties, is that also in line of your "rules of engagement"? Not only have you invaded a country wrongfully, you have done it with a bunch of triggerhappy cowboys.

The_Neon_Cowboy

you prioties are messeds up.... Do you no rember the card bombing killing slodgiers? They are somewhere they should be it just your most contires are afaid to act or actually want saddam to remain in power ... like france, germany, russia, china, seria, saudi areabeans.... they just love to export even now arms to Iraq, banned arms, mortars, chinese ship to ship misles, FROGS (short range tatical misles used to usealy carray a nuclar warhead they are anything but accurate thair ment to deliver WMD), russian tanks, night vision, Scuds , defence technolagy, ........ the rumors also are flying .... What good are words if the scruty council members are to chicken to back them up... Gee wiz the french are mad becouse they just got them programed to be good buyers of french goods....

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SH4President

Looks like the keys on your keyboard are misplaced too.

The_Neon_Cowboy

the civilians refused to stop when soldiers of a foreign army that does belong there told them to do so or they would be force to defend themselfs... that arm is there becouse the securty coincil members wold like to talk for a few hunded years .... insted of acting ... any governing body thats fails to even attect to iforce it own law becomes irrelavant.....

yea dont memtion the one wre there was a van chaseing a car they both stoped thwe vans occupents got out and started killing the civillians... that van was full of mortar shells ..... very easy could of been another suicide bombing ...

only have you invaded a country wrongfully? lets see even the iraqy people want this don't they matter? aparently you don't care at all for thier lives. "you have done it with a bunch of triggerhappy cowboys" - this from a netral country
they are far from cowboys .... you apreatly have no idea about the US army. try readig some news that don't sart with tthe antiwar antiamercan gazzete and mabye you eyes will see more clearly. I once wanted to travel the would now that i see peoples true colors i don't plan every leaving our shores now.....or ever

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The_Neon_Cowboy

typing in the dark and I also can try with eather hand up to 40+wpm
but I mess up alot..... if i am no carefull

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Talicni_Tom

truly heroic indeed...

its amazing there`s always people who justify every war crime

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Frodo301

And what about war crimes that Iraq commits?? I guess it does not matter as we are the "aggressors" in this conflict. Fact is whoever was driving that vehicle *failed* to stop after *repeated* attempts to stop them without inflicting harm. And Jeff is right by the rules of engagement those soldiers were within their rights to open fire to protect themselves from the *potential harm*. What kind of warning do *you* suggest that the US take to vehicles that refuse to stop?

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The greatest thing you'll every learn is to love, and be loved in return.

Falstaff

Saddam Hussein wants international outrage at this incident, this all a part of a plan, he will make probing manuevers all over the place, every other white van may have weapons in it or explosives, as much as I hate to say this, because I wil recieve more grief, but the reality is still the same, this war will go on, poeple will get killed, Saddam will continue to manipulate the situation, The IRAQI's need to adjust the clock to their own advantage, it just isn't going to happen I am afraid. More innocent lives will be sacrificed so cowards can martyr their people to obtain more time to reinforce their already weakening position..Some of the sarcasm about the war is now moot, the real issue is why Saddam or his deputies and military insist on sacrificing those around him..but then, before we were ever there, Hussein sacrificed his people, over and over again, He must go..Now his people must endure, be brave and suffer and die between coalition forces and his corrupt regime...To whom it may concern, you want to debate war crimes, do your homework first...I see an incredible ignorance or denial of what Hussein has done since 1979....The coalition soldiers that fired the shots that killed those civilians will forever have to live with the thought of having done so, but they followed orders. Unless you want to insult americans, then please find another forum to vent your frustrations. I am proud of our military, they do an incredible job,

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Talicni_Tom

if you didnt know there is an international court for war crimes in Hague for officers and soldiers who kill civilians,but i guess those brave americans will get medals for that

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The_Neon_Cowboy

more than reapaeated .... verbal wearning over the loud speaker .... antoher warning over the loud speaker.... warining shots fired in the air ... shots fired into the engine ... the the driver still drove on speeding tward the check point. (kind or like a madman with a van full of explosvies would do).. it force them to have to fire upon the van or risk being killed themselfs..... they wen't beond the call of duty and the rules of engagement to give them more of a chance to heed the warning and stop.

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Falstaff

Is this the American bashing thread...clearly, these IRAQI's were warned, obviously they forced the patrol to shoot, inevitably the denial of Husseins culpability is the matrix that remarks are built upon....Talicni_Tom your bias is noted,

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The_Neon_Cowboy

headed by libia (there well known for thier violations of human rights and supporting terroism, is a terroist state, recenly condeming terrorism only in hope not to be attacked by the US etc..... )

yea medals .......becouse most of those "civillians" will be iraqy soldgers in "civillian" clothes.................are refurd to a terroists... Iraq breaks the geneva convention and kills civllians commits war crimes evey day ! but it sems you guys are chearing saddam on.... you take every word their country says as gospel and absolute truth.... man there is something very very wrong with that.

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The_Neon_Cowboy

really? how is it you tend to justify/support iraq killing fireing apon thier own citizens to hinder our trops .... killing thouse who help and support... many waitning t talk as if they talk and one of saddams lackys are aound they will be killed as well as thier family ................

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Falstaff

Just the first statement in this thread by the thread starter, begs for a response, but I haven't read one credible statement against the U.S. yet. Not only do I see a bias, but also no compassion for the IRAQI people, or the suffering, just incessant whining, ooopss, I am expressing bias as well, ha ha..I have been to Kuwait and Iraq 12 years ago, so I see things a different way I suppose, it may color my judgement, you know that whole "actually been there thing"...coaltion troops are brave young men and women and deserve the benefit of the doubt in my opinion...I am not going to try to convince anyone else, but I could put myself in their shoes..

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The_Neon_Cowboy

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Optimummind

SH4, just because you're a camel, don't defend bad camels.

Falstaff

LOL.......he he he he....LMAO, ha haha ha ha ha.......crap spilled my drink.....ha ha ha ha ha....gonna use them man....

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bluelight

Well you continue proving yourself.

You obviously didnt get the message...

Your post is bullshit.....


Bluelight

bluelight

And so are the images posted by Neon Cowboy,



Bollocks.


Bluelight

Falstaff

this entire thread just needs a wheel barrow and a shovel, ha ha.....excrement everywhere....ha ha...oops, not funny not funny not funny.........ha ha...

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Falstaff

Killing civilians whether Hussein intended it or not is still terrible..I know those kids that fired those rounds and disable the bus, killing the suicide driver, surely would have never fired on them if they knew they could stop the vehicle otherwise...more of Husseins terrible plan, assuming he is still alive.

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bluelight

Well it is plain obvioous they didnt fire for fun....Sh is wrong but what he is getting at is that he thinks it wouldnt have happened in the first place had there not been this war ...that has been launched by USA.

If that is right or wrong is another discussion.


Optimum mind or whatever his name in jumps in and calls people camels.....the first post (of course with no content whatsoever relevevant for the issue...just some puke...)he makes after having being warned for calling me a pussy...


It is remarkable...but...It is a bleeding fact that i onlysee Americans taking themselves the right to insult peole they way some do....

It is very very rare i see that among others....


Wonder why....


Bluelight

Falstaff

pure and simple, nothing more than playground antics, don't fall into the byteme trap, probably a trap to destroy the thread, or get a mod involved...I am amused, but then I have better things to do with my time...good night bluelight, your always intersting..

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Desert_Siege

Well, considering your obvious ignorance of the actions of the man you hold so highly in regard, lets just check out a few of his shining moments of heroism. These are all fact and not proganda.....and I have news for you dude. I don't care where I am at and what I am doing there, if several armed people in uniforms are yelling at me and firing weapons around my vehicle, then blow out my tires.....I think I am going to stop to see what they hell they want, but thats just me, maybe you would keep driving thinking they were shooting bugs off your grill or something.

Lets highlight this man you hold in such great light. Here are some of HIS shining acts of heroism:

The use of poison gas and other war crimes against Iran and the Iranian people during the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war. Iraq summarily executed thousands of Iranian prisoners of war as a matter of policy.

The "Anfal" campaign in the late 1980's against the Iraqi Kurds, including the use of poison gas on cities. In one of the worst single mass killings in recent history, Iraq dropped chemical weapons on Halabja in 1988, in which as many as 5,000 people — mostly civilians — were killed. Wow....nice guy! I can see why you hold in such high regard.

Crimes against humanity and war crimes arising out of Iraq's 1990-91 invasion and occupation of Kuwait. The county was looted, villages were destroyed, 1000's of women were raped and public executions were a common occurence.
Hmmm....talk about being somewhere you don't belong, but guess that only applies to us.....oops our bad.

Crimes against humanity and possibly genocide against Iraqi Kurds in northern Iraq. This includes the destruction of over 3,000 villages. The Iraqi government's campaign of forced deportations of Kurdish and Turkomen families to southern Iraq has created approximately 900,000 internally displaced citizens throughout the country. Now thats a really caring guy. Lets just force all these people out of a place they have lived for probably hundreds of years.

Crimes against humanity and possibly genocide against Marsh Arabs and Shi'a Arabs in southern Iraq. Entire populations of villages have been forcibly expelled. Government forces have burned their houses and fields, demolished houses with bulldozers, and undertaken a deliberate campaign to drain and poison the marshes. Thousands of civilians have been summarily executed.

And lets not forget the mass murders commited in Southern Iraq after the Gulf War was over. How many hundreds of thousands of people did he execute and torture after they revolted during the campaign to rid Kuwait of Saddam's Army? I can see why these same people have a fear to revolt again.

And the hits just keep on coming....wonder who he is going to execute, poison, rape, pillage and plunder next? Maybe your house if your lucky, but probably not due to the sacrifice of the very people you despise. Kind of ironic isn't it? We end up protecting the very people who despise us so much.

There is a big difference that your obviously too ignorant and biased to see. Our soldiers go far out of the way to AVOID civilian casualties while the man you adore makes it a matter of POLICY to routinely sacrifice and execute civilians and that is a proven fact. What kind of moron hides armor and missile batteries in CIVILIAN HOUSING AREAS? Someone who is obviously willing to sacrifice his people to save his own sorry ass. What kind of Army shoots its own civilians to try to gain international pity and suppress uprisings that want rid of the oppresive regime of your idol? It obviously worked with you, but what of all the intelligent people in the world? Can they honestly be buying in to that?

It is NOT and HAS NEVER been the policy of the US or any other coalition member from this action or the previous action to inflict casualties or injuries on civilians. If your not intelligent enough to gather that, then there is not much hope for you. I honestly wish we had not gone to war. I wish the U.N. had decided to enforce its own resolutions. I wish the U.N. had not decided just to talk about it for a while and give the man time to prepare and hide the very weapons he isn't supposed to have to start with and ultimately decide to take no action while openly criticizing the people who did.

I have news for you dude, being in a position to effect change and deciding to take no action in the face of a clear and present danger in no way relieves you of the responsiblity of the outcome of your decision to take no action. We (the US and the UK) will take the brunt of the criticism and financial burden, but the U.N. let the U.S., the U.K., the people of Iraq and the rest of the world down in a big way with their unwillingness to enforce their own resolutions and their inablility and unwillingness to deal with an oppressive, genocidal, and openly hostile dictator in Iraq. I think we both know who the real criminal is here, and I'll be damned if I will sit and let someone bash the brave men and women of these two countries who were sent to do a difficult job in a difficult terrain at a difficult time for a people who don't have the ability to do it themselves.

Get a clue dude, or is he holding your family hostage and threatening to murder them if you don't post crap like this all over the internet? Whats next? You in line to do car bombings or human shield duty next? I can assure you he could care less. If your death bought him 5 more minutes in power, you would be dead.

just my $.02

ToshiroOC

Good foresight, fallang_jeff. This is a final warning - ONE more post that doesn't follow the rules, and the thread is closed.

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[color=White]Peace be with you, Joe.[/color]
Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

Reuter

Desert-Siege do you know how many innocent civilians are killed and wounded already by those so called "mistakes" the coalition calls them.
I think the cure is as worse as the regime is and a war that should not have been started in the first place will not solve anything.
It is just a call for even bigger trouble in the future.
If you think a democratic system could survive in Iraq, well I would stronly reconsider but there never was and will never be a democratic gouvernment overthere.
The only things the US are achieving now are:
being hated by the Arabs beyond any imagination
making a country fall apart into pieces
paving the way for yet another genocide in the north.

Not a pretty picture...

bluelight

Well...I dont know what you are saying here....Are you telling me that one should take the crap ?For the sake of what?

This is not a question of a deliberate try to crash the thread...it is a question of some people taking themselves the right to insult others when they are out of real arguments.

Calling someone a Pussy or camel is not arguments.

It is lack of education and manners.

Nothing else.

Nobody is to put up with that....for the sake of a thread.

If...everyone shuts up and accepts it as something irrelevant but unavoidable..then what?


Bluelight