USA:s incredible exact bombings!!

~~SH4President~~ · Apr 6, 2003, 11:14 PM

Today US killed 18 Kurdish soldiers.
Talk about exact bombing.
Wounder how many Iraqy civilians thats been killed by simular exact bombings?

dipstick · Apr 6, 2003, 11:54 PM

Your posts are getting old there guy. If you thought about this for a sec, you'd realize that the bomb did hit what it was aiming for. The bombs are exact, it's the guy that tells it where to go that's a retard. Anyways, I still can't figure out what you're trying to prove with your posts. You want Saddam to stay in power and torture people? All you do is talk negative words against the US, not the war, not the Iraqi saddam following f*cks, just the US. Grow up dude.

JavaFox · Apr 7, 2003, 12:56 AM

Indeed. I don't think posts like thsi really belong in this section; they seem to show little more than relish in the mistakes of the US rather than a real interest in debate. I am going to ask that you stop making such posts, SH.

Dom · Apr 7, 2003, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SH4President
Today US killed 18 Kurdish soldiers.
Talk about exact bombing.
Wounder how many Iraqy civilians thats been killed by simular exact bombings?

Although I don't support the war in Iraq, accidents do happen. I don't see you posting topics about the successful bombings. Think of how many bombings were accurate, now think about how many weren't, statistically the percentage of accuracy in like 99.9%, if not better. If you want to be anti-war, fine, but at least be realistic.

The_Neon_Cowboy · Apr 7, 2003, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dom
Although I don't support the war in Iraq, accidents do happen. I don't see you posting topics about the successful bombings. Think of how many bombings were accurate, now think about how many weren't, statistically the percentage of accuracy in like 99.9%, if not better. If you want to be anti-war, fine, but at least be realistic.

well SH4President at this point has 46 posts and 46 of thenm apear to be anti american/antiwar/pro saddom so why do we bother respoding to his/her posts?

ToshiroOC · Apr 7, 2003, 02:15 AM

No debater should have a closed mind and an open mouth.

Falstaff · Apr 7, 2003, 02:38 AM

not the master debaters that have a grasp on what is important...wait a minute...crap, edit edit edit....darn computer

The_Neon_Cowboy · Apr 7, 2003, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ToshiroOC
No debater should have a closed mind and an open mouth.

that was very good

I liked that ....

Falstaff · Apr 7, 2003, 02:56 AM

That means expertly done in Nihongo

ToshiroOC · Apr 7, 2003, 03:08 AM

Thanks!

Makes me wonder... what is the point of debating if no-one is willing to change their mind?

Dom · Apr 7, 2003, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ToshiroOC
Thanks! Makes me wonder... what is the point of debating if no-one is willing to change their mind?

There really is no point in debating, only thing that will change someones mind is if they see the truth them selves.

Falstaff · Apr 7, 2003, 04:22 AM

If one can stand to see what lies behind the pupil and iris and seek what lies behind the retinal tissue, one can imagine knowing ones self. The greatest enemy that anyone can face is themself.

~~bluelight~~ · Apr 7, 2003, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JavaFox
Indeed. I don't think posts like thsi really belong in this section; they seem to show little more than relish in the mistakes of the US rather than a real interest in debate. I am going to ask that you stop making such posts, SH.

Excuse me??!

Bluelight

ToshiroOC · Apr 7, 2003, 08:00 AM

SH4President isn't posting for the purposes of debate, he's posting for the purposes of celebrating the mistakes of the US. This forum is intended for debate, not revelry in death.

~~bluelight~~ · Apr 7, 2003, 08:06 AM

Well i certainly do not agree.

There has been a lot of civilian casualties.There will be more.

Most of the casualties among the british are due to friendly fire from Usa.

Like last war...it seems that most dead on the coalition side...will be due to friendly fire...

Unlike...last time......we see or hear....Nothing about how many Iraqì soldiers that has been killed by your bombings.

The general idea being...Sell a clean war to the people at home....

Considering Iraq was said to have 350 000 soldiers...then i figure there must be tens of thousands of dead Iraq`is lieing around all over the place since there is very little resistance today.

Most of these must have been killed by bombs.

Bluelight

ToshiroOC · Apr 7, 2003, 08:17 AM

If SH4President made even a nominal effort to turn his posts into debates ("This war is exacting too high of a civilian toll, don't you think?"), I would agree, but at this point he's just posting "US KILLED CIVILIANS!!!!!11", which really doesn't do anything for debate.

EDIT: It appears you changed your post. Let me read the new one.

EDIT: Yes, I agree, it isn't being mentioned. But asking SH4President to stop posting threads that do nothing but revel in American mistakes that result in death isn't unreasonable, if you ask me, since they really do nothing but attack the US... something I wouldn't mind if it wasn't to the exclusion of debate. If you wish to make this point for the purposes of debate, post a new thread - this one is too off topic as it is.

~~bluelight~~ · Apr 7, 2003, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dom
Although I don't support the war in Iraq, accidents do happen. I don't see you posting topics about the successful bombings. Think of how many bombings were accurate, now think about how many weren't, statistically the percentage of accuracy in like 99.9%, if not better. If you want to be anti-war, fine, but at least be realistic.

No the accuracy is about 85 % and since more than 14 000 bombs have been launched i figure you can do the maths yourself.

The overwhelming reason for casualties among the British is friendly fire from Usa troops.

That was also the reason of most deaths last time.

Bluelight

ToshiroOC · Apr 7, 2003, 08:21 AM

That doesn't mean that the 15% that miss hit anyone or anything. Also, can you provide a source for that number?

~~bluelight~~ · Apr 7, 2003, 08:27 AM

NO im not gonna look it up but i have seen similar figures several times in credible media.

99% percent reliability...is pure fantasy....or...pure propaganda..

Last time i checked about 1000 civilians were dead.That was a week ago maybe.

They didnt die from falling down the stairs.

This war is sold."Without images of dead" in western media".

Last war was not.

I wonder why??

Bluelight

ToshiroOC · Apr 7, 2003, 08:37 AM

Saddam Hussein slaughtered many times that many civilians, and could easily do so again. Do you mean to suggest that the deaths of few are _not_ preferable to the deaths of many?

~~bluelight~~ · Apr 7, 2003, 09:44 AM

Mainly i suggest that the result of this war so far is proof of that Saddam army was no threat to anybody.

This is also something your intelligence and your politicians MUST have known.

He was said to have 350 000 people in uniform ready to fight.

Had that been the case then you would still have been outside Basra.Or.....you bombings of troop gatherings have killed more than 150 000 soldiers..which is not likely.Remains....

The posed threat was a lie..

It was said he had chemical weapons and that there was no doubts that he was gonna use them.

Today Us troops are in the middle of Bagdad so far...no chemicals....

The chemicals were one of the main reasons as to why you over ruled UN`s job in Iraq and invaded....

Where is the use of the chemicals??

Finally...i mainly suggest that this should have been handled by the UN where it belongs.

The inspections should have been allowed to continue while a "REAL" coalition was built that would eventually have invaded Iraq if necessary.

Last time there were 14 muslim nations in the coalition.

That gave credibility.

This time there is no muslim nation at all in the coalition due to your ultimatums.

You have also mamaged to split the world diplomatically in two halvesd with you "ou are either with us or against us" rethoric.

I live in Europe..and even most conservative people here agree to that your government has played a weird game and that what they are now doing is a change in world politics just as important as whyat happened just before WW1 and that the final outcome is..very very uncertain.

And here is a link about precision bombing.

Accuracy

Furthermore...precision bombing does not mean...No damage to people...It means..less waste of money in bombs hitting irrelevant targets.

The people will be hurt anyway.There is no such thing as a humane war.Even if they try to sell it like that by not showing you any dead Iraq`is

Finally the results of you ultra conservative governments efforts to rule the world is also beginning to show with your closest allie Great Britain.

Blair now demands openly...and in loud voice...that this must now for the sake of results and credibility...be handled by the UN.

Will you government listen to him?

No....they will run him over completely.

Bluelight

ToshiroOC · Apr 7, 2003, 10:41 AM

I have a simple question that so far I have not ever recieved a good answer to: How will leaving Saddam Hussein in power bring peace and justice to Iraq? While I may agree with you that WMD wasn't a legitimate excuse for the invasion of US troops, and that the US should have waited for UN approval, it really doesn't change the simple fact that Saddam Hussein is a threat to his own people, and that without decisive military action there would be continued death within Iraq soley because of the criminal actions of Saddam Hussein, and that a few civilian deaths are a deeply unfortunate but worthwhile price to pay for the saving of thousands of civilian lives that would otherwise be destroyed with Saddam still in power.

~~bluelight~~ · Apr 7, 2003, 01:46 PM

Im gonna think about this post awhile...and...i know you dont like this but it is still essential for understanding....and i suggest you read this link......posted by Jeff Jeffs link ...most of the lives sacrificed in Iraq were actually sanctioned by your government.....since you supported the war against Iran in which died tens of thousands Iraq`i soldiers and civilians.Not mentioning the Iranians...who some of them were gased to death.

Now ..if you consider this first and then ..you explain to me..how Iraq`i people and other muslim nations could ever believe you in your intents?

The one way..which is difficult enough....is to have a coalition that consists of many nations ..including muslim nations..(like last time)...this would have given the operation a much bigger chance in the long run.

Your conservative elite with Wolfwitz Rumsfeld Cheney in leading roles..sees America as an empire and has dedided to make the world look uopn you as such...

Well i dont like what i see....and im not alone.I want America to be the land of free thought and strive for global progress that i learned as a kid that it was.

Today it is slowly turning itself into a police state with the introduction of the different versions of Patriot act..

Id say....Bin Laden got what he wanted...He crushed democracy to a large amount.He introduced fear as a daily ingredient in American life..He managed to create two wars between "the unfaithful" (and to which your president replies in the same manner as Bin laden..by saying..God has given me a mission....)
He managed to split the opinions among the western democracies....

And you are actually giving it to him for free...You r government does all it can to feed the fear..muck like4 they did in the fifties with "communists"...Sometimes it seems you ...must....have an outside threat to measure with...

Democracy only dies if one lets it...The Patriot act..is letting it....

Yeah..id say he got what he wanted..and we havent seen the end of it.

Just wait until when Israel will refuse to follow the roadmap to peace..laid out by the superpowers...

There is no other way...than internatinal collaboration..and such can never be dictated by one part as have been the case now.

Get rid of your government.Vote in people that live in this world..and not in 1833.

Bluelight

Falstaff · Apr 7, 2003, 01:59 PM

I know the point is probably moot, Accuracy for guided munitions has improved since their inception of use during the Vietnam war. Air to ground targeting accuracy is not 100% of course, it is also based on the synergy between ground forces and air too. That is where most of the problems have come from. The pilot that dropped his bomb on the Khurds recently accurately hit his target, albiet, a coalition unit. And of course the difference in accuracy between guided and unguided munitions is hotly debated by military analyst even today, but it is good, damn good. Marines can watch carpet bombing from 300 meters away and determine accuracy from the ground now, simply unheard of. One of my coworkers is a forward observer for special forces during the Gulf War and Afghanistan conflict and remarked confidently that he could get close, real close, witht he Pave Penny system, so that A-10s could hit concealed tanks in ditches, not that is good. But that is anchient history now. Our tomahawk missles use two different methods to find targerts and can even be programmed like a toy to find a target if stealth is not an issue. Unfortunately even our terribly accurate smart weapons will find targets that are occupied by women and children because Husseins military know full well that we will attempt to root them out. And worse yet, several missles types supplied to IRAQ for anti air use have a significant yield as well, if the fall unguided back towards their own territory.

~~bluelight~~ · Apr 7, 2003, 02:13 PM

Yes but even if we disregard that Saddam would place military installations among civilians the fact remains that only 85 90 percent at best reach their target.Now out of a total sum of 14 000 bombs...these 15 percent...is a large amount of ammmunition not going where it is aimed.

Even if we would have 100 percent accuracy the that would in no way mean war is humane.Such a thing does only exist in our...sofas...thousands of kilometers from the scene.

And....if the media ..does not show any images of ythe thousands and thousands of soldiers killed...how can we possibly have any comprehension about what is going on at all?

I think that they dont show these images for a purpose.The purpose is...selleing the "humane war"......which is a lie.

Bluelight

merry · Apr 7, 2003, 02:21 PM

Oh the media. They sell "shows", not information. Infotainment, heh-heh. There is no such thing as a humane war, not since Homo Erectus, who never heard a cannonshot in his home town will never understand it from the media.

merry · Apr 7, 2003, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ToshiroOC
I have a simple question that so far I have not ever recieved a good answer to: How will leaving Saddam Hussein in power bring peace and justice to Iraq?

It won't.

Here's my question:

Why is peace and justice in Iraq suddenly so important to the US? Why there, why now?

I understand your point: not *everything* is bad about this war. But isn't this a mere side effect for whoever decided this war should start?

While I do accept your point - if I understand it well - I generally agree with Blue. Especially on the Laden part.

Maybe this discussion deserves a thread of it's own.

ToshiroOC · Apr 7, 2003, 10:38 PM

Good point. I'm going to start a new thread with that exact question now - bluelight, if you want, I can split your big post above off and into the new thread, or you can jsut copy/paste into a new post if you so choose.

Apr 6, 2003, 11:14 PM	#1
~~SH4President~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 111 Rep Power: 0	USA:s incredible exact bombings!! Today US killed 18 Kurdish soldiers. Talk about exact bombing. Wounder how many Iraqy civilians thats been killed by simular exact bombings?

Apr 7, 2003, 02:15 AM	#6
ToshiroOC Unbiased. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 4,812 Rep Power: 0	No debater should have a closed mind and an open mouth. __________________ [img][/img] [color=White]Peace be with you, Joe.[/color] Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

Apr 7, 2003, 02:38 AM	#7
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	It is usually the junior ones not the master debaters that have a grasp on what is important...wait a minute...crap, edit edit edit....darn computer __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Apr 7, 2003, 02:56 AM	#9
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	Anatawa Josu ToshiroOC That means expertly done in Nihongo __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Apr 7, 2003, 03:08 AM	#10
ToshiroOC Unbiased. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 4,812 Rep Power: 0	Thanks! Makes me wonder... what is the point of debating if no-one is willing to change their mind? __________________ [img][/img] [color=White]Peace be with you, Joe.[/color] Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

Apr 6, 2003, 11:54 PM	#2
dipstick HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: USA Posts: 3,609 Rep Power: 71 System Specs	Your posts are getting old there guy. If you thought about this for a sec, you'd realize that the bomb did hit what it was aiming for. The bombs are exact, it's the guy that tells it where to go that's a retard. Anyways, I still can't figure out what you're trying to prove with your posts. You want Saddam to stay in power and torture people? All you do is talk negative words against the US, not the war, not the Iraqi saddam following f*cks, just the US. Grow up dude.

Apr 7, 2003, 12:56 AM	#3
JavaFox E Pluribus Unum Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 3,203 Rep Power: 0	Indeed. I don't think posts like thsi really belong in this section; they seem to show little more than relish in the mistakes of the US rather than a real interest in debate. I am going to ask that you stop making such posts, SH.

Apr 7, 2003, 04:22 AM	#12
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	Much like looking in a mirror If one can stand to see what lies behind the pupil and iris and seek what lies behind the retinal tissue, one can imagine knowing ones self. The greatest enemy that anyone can face is themself. __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Apr 7, 2003, 08:00 AM	#14
ToshiroOC Unbiased. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 4,812 Rep Power: 0	SH4President isn't posting for the purposes of debate, he's posting for the purposes of celebrating the mistakes of the US. This forum is intended for debate, not revelry in death. __________________ [img][/img] [color=White]Peace be with you, Joe.[/color] Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

Apr 7, 2003, 08:06 AM	#15
~~bluelight~~ Banned Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,328 Rep Power: 0	Well i certainly do not agree. There has been a lot of civilian casualties.There will be more. Most of the casualties among the british are due to friendly fire from Usa. Like last war...it seems that most dead on the coalition side...will be due to friendly fire... Unlike...last time......we see or hear....Nothing about how many Iraqì soldiers that has been killed by your bombings. The general idea being...Sell a clean war to the people at home.... Considering Iraq was said to have 350 000 soldiers...then i figure there must be tens of thousands of dead Iraq`is lieing around all over the place since there is very little resistance today. Most of these must have been killed by bombs. Bluelight Last edited by bluelight; Apr 7, 2003 at 08:17 AM.

Apr 7, 2003, 08:17 AM	#16
ToshiroOC Unbiased. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 4,812 Rep Power: 0	If SH4President made even a nominal effort to turn his posts into debates ("This war is exacting too high of a civilian toll, don't you think?"), I would agree, but at this point he's just posting "US KILLED CIVILIANS!!!!!11", which really doesn't do anything for debate. EDIT: It appears you changed your post. Let me read the new one. EDIT: Yes, I agree, it isn't being mentioned. But asking SH4President to stop posting threads that do nothing but revel in American mistakes that result in death isn't unreasonable, if you ask me, since they really do nothing but attack the US... something I wouldn't mind if it wasn't to the exclusion of debate. If you wish to make this point for the purposes of debate, post a new thread - this one is too off topic as it is. __________________ [img][/img] [color=White]Peace be with you, Joe.[/color] Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

Apr 7, 2003, 08:21 AM	#18
ToshiroOC Unbiased. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 4,812 Rep Power: 0	That doesn't mean that the 15% that miss hit anyone or anything. Also, can you provide a source for that number? __________________ [img][/img] [color=White]Peace be with you, Joe.[/color] Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

Apr 7, 2003, 08:27 AM	#19
~~bluelight~~ Banned Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,328 Rep Power: 0	NO im not gonna look it up but i have seen similar figures several times in credible media. 99% percent reliability...is pure fantasy....or...pure propaganda.. Last time i checked about 1000 civilians were dead.That was a week ago maybe. They didnt die from falling down the stairs. This war is sold."Without images of dead" in western media". Last war was not. I wonder why?? Bluelight

Apr 7, 2003, 08:37 AM	#20
ToshiroOC Unbiased. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 4,812 Rep Power: 0	Saddam Hussein slaughtered many times that many civilians, and could easily do so again. Do you mean to suggest that the deaths of few are _not_ preferable to the deaths of many? __________________ [img][/img] [color=White]Peace be with you, Joe.[/color] Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

Apr 7, 2003, 09:44 AM	#21
~~bluelight~~ Banned Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,328 Rep Power: 0	Mainly i suggest that the result of this war so far is proof of that Saddam army was no threat to anybody. This is also something your intelligence and your politicians MUST have known. He was said to have 350 000 people in uniform ready to fight. Had that been the case then you would still have been outside Basra.Or.....you bombings of troop gatherings have killed more than 150 000 soldiers..which is not likely.Remains.... The posed threat was a lie.. It was said he had chemical weapons and that there was no doubts that he was gonna use them. Today Us troops are in the middle of Bagdad so far...no chemicals.... The chemicals were one of the main reasons as to why you over ruled UN`s job in Iraq and invaded.... Where is the use of the chemicals?? Finally...i mainly suggest that this should have been handled by the UN where it belongs. The inspections should have been allowed to continue while a "REAL" coalition was built that would eventually have invaded Iraq if necessary. Last time there were 14 muslim nations in the coalition. That gave credibility. This time there is no muslim nation at all in the coalition due to your ultimatums. You have also mamaged to split the world diplomatically in two halvesd with you "ou are either with us or against us" rethoric. I live in Europe..and even most conservative people here agree to that your government has played a weird game and that what they are now doing is a change in world politics just as important as whyat happened just before WW1 and that the final outcome is..very very uncertain. And here is a link about precision bombing. Accuracy Furthermore...precision bombing does not mean...No damage to people...It means..less waste of money in bombs hitting irrelevant targets. The people will be hurt anyway.There is no such thing as a humane war.Even if they try to sell it like that by not showing you any dead Iraq`is Finally the results of you ultra conservative governments efforts to rule the world is also beginning to show with your closest allie Great Britain. Blair now demands openly...and in loud voice...that this must now for the sake of results and credibility...be handled by the UN. Will you government listen to him? No....they will run him over completely. Bluelight Last edited by bluelight; Apr 7, 2003 at 09:51 AM.

Apr 7, 2003, 10:41 AM	#22
ToshiroOC Unbiased. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 4,812 Rep Power: 0	I have a simple question that so far I have not ever recieved a good answer to: How will leaving Saddam Hussein in power bring peace and justice to Iraq? While I may agree with you that WMD wasn't a legitimate excuse for the invasion of US troops, and that the US should have waited for UN approval, it really doesn't change the simple fact that Saddam Hussein is a threat to his own people, and that without decisive military action there would be continued death within Iraq soley because of the criminal actions of Saddam Hussein, and that a few civilian deaths are a deeply unfortunate but worthwhile price to pay for the saving of thousands of civilian lives that would otherwise be destroyed with Saddam still in power. __________________ [img][/img] [color=White]Peace be with you, Joe.[/color] Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

Apr 7, 2003, 01:46 PM	#23
~~bluelight~~ Banned Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,328 Rep Power: 0	Im gonna think about this post awhile...and...i know you dont like this but it is still essential for understanding....and i suggest you read this link......posted by Jeff Jeffs link ...most of the lives sacrificed in Iraq were actually sanctioned by your government.....since you supported the war against Iran in which died tens of thousands Iraq`i soldiers and civilians.Not mentioning the Iranians...who some of them were gased to death. Now ..if you consider this first and then ..you explain to me..how Iraq`i people and other muslim nations could ever believe you in your intents? The one way..which is difficult enough....is to have a coalition that consists of many nations ..including muslim nations..(like last time)...this would have given the operation a much bigger chance in the long run. Your conservative elite with Wolfwitz Rumsfeld Cheney in leading roles..sees America as an empire and has dedided to make the world look uopn you as such... Well i dont like what i see....and im not alone.I want America to be the land of free thought and strive for global progress that i learned as a kid that it was. Today it is slowly turning itself into a police state with the introduction of the different versions of Patriot act.. Id say....Bin Laden got what he wanted...He crushed democracy to a large amount.He introduced fear as a daily ingredient in American life..He managed to create two wars between "the unfaithful" (and to which your president replies in the same manner as Bin laden..by saying..God has given me a mission....) He managed to split the opinions among the western democracies.... And you are actually giving it to him for free...You r government does all it can to feed the fear..muck like4 they did in the fifties with "communists"...Sometimes it seems you ...must....have an outside threat to measure with... Democracy only dies if one lets it...The Patriot act..is letting it.... Yeah..id say he got what he wanted..and we havent seen the end of it. Just wait until when Israel will refuse to follow the roadmap to peace..laid out by the superpowers... There is no other way...than internatinal collaboration..and such can never be dictated by one part as have been the case now. Get rid of your government.Vote in people that live in this world..and not in 1833. Bluelight

Apr 7, 2003, 01:59 PM	#24
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	Bombing accuracy? I know the point is probably moot, Accuracy for guided munitions has improved since their inception of use during the Vietnam war. Air to ground targeting accuracy is not 100% of course, it is also based on the synergy between ground forces and air too. That is where most of the problems have come from. The pilot that dropped his bomb on the Khurds recently accurately hit his target, albiet, a coalition unit. And of course the difference in accuracy between guided and unguided munitions is hotly debated by military analyst even today, but it is good, damn good. Marines can watch carpet bombing from 300 meters away and determine accuracy from the ground now, simply unheard of. One of my coworkers is a forward observer for special forces during the Gulf War and Afghanistan conflict and remarked confidently that he could get close, real close, witht he Pave Penny system, so that A-10s could hit concealed tanks in ditches, not that is good. But that is anchient history now. Our tomahawk missles use two different methods to find targerts and can even be programmed like a toy to find a target if stealth is not an issue. Unfortunately even our terribly accurate smart weapons will find targets that are occupied by women and children because Husseins military know full well that we will attempt to root them out. And worse yet, several missles types supplied to IRAQ for anti air use have a significant yield as well, if the fall unguided back towards their own territory. __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Apr 7, 2003, 02:13 PM	#25
~~bluelight~~ Banned Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,328 Rep Power: 0	Yes but even if we disregard that Saddam would place military installations among civilians the fact remains that only 85 90 percent at best reach their target.Now out of a total sum of 14 000 bombs...these 15 percent...is a large amount of ammmunition not going where it is aimed. Even if we would have 100 percent accuracy the that would in no way mean war is humane.Such a thing does only exist in our...sofas...thousands of kilometers from the scene. And....if the media ..does not show any images of ythe thousands and thousands of soldiers killed...how can we possibly have any comprehension about what is going on at all? I think that they dont show these images for a purpose.The purpose is...selleing the "humane war"......which is a lie. Bluelight

Apr 7, 2003, 02:21 PM	#26
merry gargouille Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha Posts: 962 Rep Power: 0	Oh the media. They sell "shows", not information. Infotainment, heh-heh. There is no such thing as a humane war, not since Homo Erectus, who never heard a cannonshot in his home town will never understand it from the media. __________________ There is a war between the ones who say there is a war and the ones who say there isn't. ~~Leonard Cohen

Apr 7, 2003, 10:38 PM	#28
ToshiroOC Unbiased. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 4,812 Rep Power: 0	Good point. I'm going to start a new thread with that exact question now - bluelight, if you want, I can split your big post above off and into the new thread, or you can jsut copy/paste into a new post if you so choose. __________________ [img][/img] [color=White]Peace be with you, Joe.[/color] Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)