Cheap oil for everybody after the war

Talicni_Tom · Apr 9, 2003, 08:08 PM

one good thing from this war

or it was about iraqi freedom??

this iraqi boy is now free

http://www.dailykos.com/archives/002286.html#002286

Quote:

Ali Ismaeel Abbas, 12

I don't have a picture of this young Iraqi boy, and perhaps it's for the best:

The United States says it is taking precautions to avoid civilian casualties, but Baghdad's hospitals are packed to overflowing with wounded residents of the capital.

One of them is Ali Ismaeel Abbas, 12, who was fast asleep when a missile obliterated his home and most of his family, leaving him orphaned, badly burned and missing both his arms.

"Can you help get my arms back? Do you think the doctors can get me another pair of hands?" Abbas asked. "If I don't get a pair of hands I will commit suicide," he said with tears spilling down his cheeks.

So Bush, can you help him get a new pair of hands? Blair? Aznar? Karimov? Can Haliburton "rebuild" his arms?

JavaFox · Apr 9, 2003, 09:39 PM

If you want to speak at length about civilian causualities, that's fine, but if you, like some of our other members, are only going to post drive-by attacks like this with little interest in true debate, I am going to ask you to refrain from posting.

Zardon · Apr 9, 2003, 09:44 PM

I dont agree with war or violence and it brought me to tears today to see this poor child and his terrible injuries and the loss of his family.

Having just watched Sky news and seeing the joy on thousands of oppressed iraq civilians who have suffered for 30 years under one of the most evil dictators and seeing them crying with the thought of a new life, the thought of a life, a life you and me are accustomed to and perhaps take for granted ---- brings a feeling that perhaps this war wasnt totally in vain.

Having heard some men talking about the way saddam and his people have killed, tortured maimed, and slaughtered their own people while filling their pockets with luxuries and depriving their own people of even a basic way of life, brings a new perspective to my views on this.

Any loss of life is a tragedy and the victims of war and the things I alone have seen make me feel very sad.............. but I feel this country and millions of people will have a better life.

im praying so, just like im praying for that child.

~~bluelight~~ · Apr 9, 2003, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JavaFox
If you want to speak at length about civilian causualities, that's fine, but if you, like some of our other members, are only going to post drive-by attacks like this with little interest in true debate, I am going to ask you to refrain from posting.

Excuse me.....again....This is the second time....When are you moderating...and when are you Javafox the one with personal wiews......?

Well i dont know.

Bluelight

Talicni_Tom · Apr 9, 2003, 10:31 PM

this is just a little remainder for our euphoric warmongers here what the war really is...

iraqis paid high price for their freedom...americans and british decided they have to pay...me thinks iraqis had every right to choose...nobody asked them

The_Neon_Cowboy · Apr 9, 2003, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Talicni_Tom
one good thing from this war

or it was about iraqi freedom??

this iraqi boy is now free

http://www.dailykos.com/archives/002286.html#002286

Well Mr Pro saddom / anti us protester It doent so who fired the missle....
but as for the iraqy's have have been fireng on and in total dis regard civillians for some time now. Why should they care? they just blame it on us. So most likey this boy lies injured do to an iraqy rpg, or wire guided misles. that artical is super vage and lack many detail be couse it dont want to mention then becouse it then fails to meet it anti US / pro saddom guidlines

you don't compain about a singe atrocity that iraq has comitted before and during this war ... if fact you appear to premote it and support it. So in a way it's your falt since you suport the actions of this terrable regime.

you should have used a better name so people can relize they credablity of your posts immealy like SH4president = (S)addom(h)ussain for president

oh by the way ...
Daily Kos named Best Warblog by Forbes.com The war in Iraq is under way, and after months of debate, bloggers are now going to war. Not all of them like it, although many are cheering.

In choosing the best of the best, we excluded "meta-blogs" like Warblogs.cc and Warblogging, which are essentially compilations of other blogs, many of them opposed to the war .

And his supporting artical for this story

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp.../ts_nm/iraq_dc

I dont see they story or the proof so this becomes a made up story made up out of farytale land to help suport saddom and to apouse the usa.

"Baghdad's hospitals are packed to overflowing with wounded residents of the capital" you forgot to mention that iraqy forcea are knowingly and delibratly fireing apon thier civillians. Espcally ding fire fights to sir them up as to make it hard for us force to fire back. Many being shot down tring to run for safty or to run to U.S / britsh controlled areas for food an water. It has happend many times and is a tatic of the resgime ... so cances are the boy in the pic was injured by iraqy soldgiers.... not the us

you can tell your website is anti us / anto war stance just by browsing thier articals and the reading the REAL story they based it on ... ans that thier only paying much attection to the anti us / anto war articals http://www.dailykos.com/archives/cat_war.html

nuff said

~~bluelight~~ · Apr 9, 2003, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Neon_Cowboy
Well Mr Pro saddom / anti us protester It doent so who fired the missle....
but as for the iraqy's have have been fireng on and in total dis regard civillians for some time now. Why should they care? they just blame it on us. So most likey this boy lies injured do to an iraqy rpg, or wire guided misles. that artical is super vage and lack many detail be couse it dont want to mention then becouse it then fails to meet it anti US / pro saddom guidlines

you don't compain about a singe atrocity that iraq has comitted before and during this war ... if fact you appear to premote it and support it. So in a way it's your falt since you suport the actions of this terrable regime.

you should have used a better name so people can relize they credablity of your posts immealy like SH4president = (S)addom(h)ussain for president

oh by the way ...
Daily Kos named Best Warblog by Forbes.com The war in Iraq is under way, and after months of debate, bloggers are now going to war. Not all of them like it, although many are cheering.

In choosing the best of the best, we excluded "meta-blogs" like Warblogs.cc and Warblogging, which are essentially compilations of other blogs, many of them opposed to the war .

And his supporting artical for this story

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp.../ts_nm/iraq_dc

I dont see they story or the proof so this becomes a made up story made up out of farytale land to help suport saddom and to apouse the usa.

"Baghdad's hospitals are packed to overflowing with wounded residents of the capital" you forgot to mention that iraqy forcea are knowingly and delibratly fireing apon thier civillians. Espcally ding fire fights to sir them up as to make it hard for us force to fire back. Many being shot down tring to run for safty or to run to U.S / britsh controlled areas for food an water. It has happend many times and is a tatic of the resgime ... so cances are the boy in the pic was injured by iraqy soldgiers.... not the us

you can tell your website is anti us / anto war stance just by browsing thier articals and the reading the REAL story they based it on ... ans that thier only paying much attection to the anti us / anto war articals http://www.dailykos.com/archives/cat_war.html

nuff said

Can you explain something to me?

Why is it that you are beginning your post with Well MR pro Saddam??

Is it ok if we that dont agree with you name you Mr Fascist lover? I mean it would be funny wouldnt it?

Bluelight

Bluelight

Falstaff · Apr 10, 2003, 01:59 AM

Quote:

this is just a little remainder for our euphoric warmongers here what the war really is...

iraqis paid high price for their freedom...americans and british decided they have to pay...me thinks iraqis had every right to choose...nobody asked them

Quote:

Ali Ismaeel Abbas, 12

I don't have a picture of this young Iraqi boy, and perhaps it's for the best:

The United States says it is taking precautions to avoid civilian casualties, but Baghdad's hospitals are packed to overflowing with wounded residents of the capital.

One of them is Ali Ismaeel Abbas, 12, who was fast asleep when a missile obliterated his home and most of his family, leaving him orphaned, badly burned and missing both his arms.

"Can you help get my arms back? Do you think the doctors can get me another pair of hands?" Abbas asked. "If I don't get a pair of hands I will commit suicide," he said with tears spilling down his cheeks.

So Bush, can you help him get a new pair of hands? Blair? Aznar? Karimov? Can Haliburton "rebuild" his arms?

I know that you wanted to be taken seriously...but you gotta work on your style...or something relevant to a debate about Politics, Economics or Ideology...

I am not going to take your hankerchief from your hands, your feeling pain and your acting out, and your externalizing.

I would really like to see you make a point without pulling out the melodrama switch and pushing it....
You are going to become tiresome with this approach, you got an axe to grind, let's see how clever you are at grinding it, but please turn off the faucet.....

~~bluelight~~ · Apr 10, 2003, 07:20 AM

'

What?!!

Bluelight

Falstaff · Apr 10, 2003, 07:47 AM

directed at the driveby poster no you, This guy reminds me Geraldo Rivera sometimes, oh god that was low,,sorry about that, no one wants to be called that, ha ha...anyway, Moderators have lots of power and the use it when it is necessary, I am not sticking up for them, have had my problems, but if we are patient with them, and report bad posts they generally take care of the problem,,,they are just human too, (quote).

~~bluelight~~ · Apr 10, 2003, 09:05 AM

I dont think that the post is irrelevant.
I think it is higly relevant.I mean it is obvious that nobody want children killed..but yet...we sit here discussing the issue blindfolded if we do not accept and see....the4 result of war.

I hear arguments about Saddam having tortured and killed..should we restrict posts about that too because it is unpleasant?

My point as i have mader it all the time...is that if we refuse to look at the consequenses of what we do no matter if our intenet is good or not...then we will never learn for the future.

Most prowar people (except yopu in fact)here refuses to see any misdeads historically at all done by the Usa.It is an impossibility to them.

Why is that...maybe because death is too ugly for them to look at and that accepting it as caused by themselves is so tough that it must be denied.

That my friend...is not a good thing.

This war is not over.

That..will take considerably more tiome than 3 weeks.I hope your government will succed in what they claim they want to achieve...

They have said that now...they will work for an independent Palestine...

Well...how much pressure do you think they will put on Sharon??

None....if you ask me...and thus..the repression will continue against the Palestinians......and thus also

The war.

Bluelight

Falstaff · Apr 10, 2003, 09:16 AM

I was there man, not bragging, that is why I am not pro war, my ships missles killed inoocent people, I have fired an automatic weapon at human beings, never looked to see who I hit or what I hit, it haunts me still..my demon, my problem, my issues.....I hope my government will not repeat the mistakes of the the 80s and 90s, and let the IRAQI people down....

Talicni_Tom · Apr 11, 2003, 12:31 AM

its interesting to see how average braindead american reacts to unpleasent aspects of the war waged by their smart president

one got offended,second denied everything,third thinks its irelevant

Quote:

I am not going to take your hankerchief from your hands, your feeling pain and your acting out, and your externalizing.
I would really like to see you make a point without pulling out the melodrama switch and pushing it....
You are going to become tiresome with this approach, you got an axe to grind, let's see how clever you are at grinding it, but please turn off the faucet.....

axe,grinding ... you mixed up something im not an american

Falstaff · Apr 11, 2003, 03:39 AM

You sure act like one sometimes...and then ;you digress

JavaFox · Apr 11, 2003, 10:26 PM

Talicni, I will not tolerate you calling an entire group of DH members "braindead." Either debate without insult, or don't debate at all.

Falstaff · Apr 12, 2003, 07:16 AM

I did say he reminded me of Geraldo Rivera,,that would really wind anyone up,,,I apologise Talicni_Tom, no one should be called that........can we move on?

BWX · Apr 12, 2003, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bluelight
I dont think that the post is irrelevant.
I think it is higly relevant.I mean it is obvious that nobody want children killed..but yet...we sit here discussing the issue blindfolded if we do not accept and see....the4 result of war.
I hear arguments about Saddam having tortured and killed..should we restrict posts about that too because it is unpleasant?
My point as i have mader it all the time...is that if we refuse to look at the consequenses of what we do no matter if our intenet is good or not...then we will never learn for the future.
Most prowar people (except yopu in fact)here refuses to see any misdeads historically at all done by the Usa.It is an impossibility to them.
Why is that...maybe because death is too ugly for them to look at and that accepting it as caused by themselves is so tough that it must be denied.
That my friend...is not a good thing.
This war is not over.
That..will take considerably more tiome than 3 weeks.I hope your government will succed in what they claim they want to achieve...
They have said that now...they will work for an independent Palestine...
Well...how much pressure do you think they will put on Sharon??
Bluelight

Bluelight, when will you ever learn- In another thread you accuse my government of being to blame because Saddam GASSED his OWN people, right here:

Quote:

Originally posted by bluelight
First.
As far as im concerned you are partly responsible for the massacre at Halabja.
I dont care if you think i am insulting your president or your government.

Quote:

Originally posted by bluelight
While this happened Halabja your conservative government had already for
at least ten years supported the man who carried this out..with weapons,intelligence and advice for ten years.
When it was known about this your senate disallowed further support for the man responsable of this:
Halabja
Your government at the time...did not bother about that and over ruled the senate and continued to support to their friend:Saddam Hussein for another three years.

NOW you and your new freind say it is our fault that poor child was hurt because we went to war with Saddam- (even though the extremely unfortunate incident that happened to hurt that child is not proven to be the US's fault, but more likely Saddam's own regime)
YOU cannot have it both ways, you are against the US and the coalition no matter what we do- So all I can do is say this:

Evil abounds when good men do nothing.

And why don't you read this, maybe you will begin to understand why we HAD to do what we are doing now.
This is a little corny at times, but matbe it will help you and people like you why Saddam and all other countries that support terrorism and attack their nieghbors and kill their own peopl eneed to be taken out of power and wiped off the face of the earth.

And to Talicni: Why do you prop up and support people like Saddam? Is he better than US? Why don't you put up all the pictures of the thousands upon thousands of the people he has killed? Or does it only matter to you if the deaths are accidentally caused be Coalition forces trying to hit targets Saddam had embedded among hospitals, shopping centers, childrens daycare centers, and schools? Oh, I guess that kind of behavior is OK it your name is SADDAM????
Maybe you should read this too.

This is a story even the most pro Saddam people can understand. yes it is CORNY, but at least you pro-Saddam/ anti-American people MAY be able to understand the point of this war.

The other day, my nine year old son wanted to
know why we were at war.
My husband looked at our son and then looked at me.
My husband and I were in the Army during
the Gulf War and we would be honored to
serve and defend our country again today.
I knew that my husband would give him a
good explanation.

My husband thought for a few minutes and then told my son to go stand in our front living room window.

He told him:

"Son, stand there and tell me what you see?"

"I see trees and cars and our neighbors houses."
he replied.

"OK, now I want you to pretend that our house and
our yard is theUnited States of America and
you are President Bush."

Our son giggled and said "OK."

"Now son, I want you to look out the window and
pretend that every house and yard on this block
is a different country," my husband said.

"OK Dad, I'm pretending."

"Now I want you to stand there and look out the
window and see that man come out of his house with
his wife and he has her by the hair and is hitting her.
You see her bleeding and crying.
He hits her in the face, he throws her on the ground,
then he starts to kick her to death.
Their children run out and are afraid to stop him,
they are crying, they are watching this but do nothing because they are kids and afraid of their father.
You see all of this son....what do you do?"

"Dad?"

"What do you do son?!"

"I call the police, Dad."

"OK. Pretend that the police are the United Nations
and they take your call, listen to what you know
and saw but they refuse to help.
What do you do then son?"

"Dad, but the police are supposed to help!"
my son starts to whine.

"They don't want to son, because they say that it
is not their placeor your place to get involved and
that you should stay out of it," my husband says.

"But Dad...he killed her!!," my son exclaims.

"I know he did...but the police tell you to stay out of it.
Now I want you to look out that window and
pretend you see our neighbor who you're
pretending is Saddam turn around and do
the same thing to his children."

"Daddy...he kills them?"

"Yes son, he does. What do you do?"

"Well, if the police don't want to help,
I will go and ask my next door neighbor to help
me stop him." our son says.

"Son, our next door neighbor sees what is
happening and refuses to get involved as well.
He refuses to open the door and help you stop him,"
my husband says.

"But Dad, I NEED help!!!
I can't stop him by myself!!"

"WHAT DO YOU DO SON?"

Our son starts to cry.

"OK, no one wants to help you, the man across
the street saw you ask for help and saw that no
one would help you stop him.
He stands taller and puffs out his chest.
Guess what he does next son?"

"What Daddy?"

"He walks across the street to the old ladies
house and breaks down her door and drags
her out, steals all her stuff and sets her house
on fire and then...he kills her.
He turns around and sees you standing in
the window and laughs at you.
WHAT DO YOU DO?!!!"

"Daddy..."

"WHAT DO YOU DO?!!!"

Our son is crying and he looks down and he whispers,
"I close the blinds, Daddy."

My husband looks at our son with tears in his
eyes and asks him ... "Why?"

"Because Daddy.....the police are supposed to help...people who needs it....and they won't help....
You always say that neighbors are supposed to
HELP neighbors, but they won't help either...
they won't help me stop him...I'm afraid....
I can't do it by myself...Daddy.....I can't look out
my window and just watch him do all these
terrible things and...and.....do nothing...so....
I'm just going to close the blinds....
so I can't see what he's doing........
and I'm going to pretend that it is not happening."

I start to cry.

My husband looks at our nine year old son
standing in the window, looking pitiful and
ashamed at his answers to my husbands questions
and he tells him...."Son"

"Yes, Daddy."

"Open the blinds because that man....
he's at your front door...
"WHAT DO YOU DO?!!!!"

My son looks at his father, anger and defiance
in his eyes. He balls up this tiny fists and looks
his father square in the eyes, without hesitation he says:
"I DEFEND MY FAMILY DAD!!
I'M NOT GONNA LET HIM HURT MOMMY
OR MY SISTER, DAD!!!
I'M GONNA FIGHT HIM, DAD,
I'M GONNA FIGHT HIM!!!!!"

I see a tear roll down my husband's cheek and he
grabs my son to his chest and hugs him tight, and cries...
"It's too late to fight him, he's too strong and
he's already at YOUR front door son.....
you should have stopped him
BEFORE he killed his wife.
You have to do what's right, even if you have to do it alone, before......it's too late." my husband whispers.

THAT scenario I just gave you is
WHY we are at war with Iraq.
When good men stand by and let evil happen
is the greatest EVIL of all.
OurPresident is doing what is right.
We, as a free nation, must understand
that this war is a war of humanity.
WE must remove this evil man from power
so that we can continue to live in a free world
where we are not afraid to look out our window
and see crimes on humanity.
So that my nine year old son won't grow up in
a world where he feels that if he just "closes" the
blinds the atrocities in the world won't affect him.

Today the second day of "WAR on IRAQ" I felt compelled to write this and pass it along.
Hopefully, you will understand the lesson my
husband tried to teach our son.

"YOU MUST NEVER BE AFRAID TO
DO WHAT IS RIGHT!
EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO DO IT ALONE!"

BE PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN!
BE PROUD OF OUR PRESIDENT!
BE PROUD OF OUR TROOPS!!
SUPPORT THEM!!!
SUPPORT AMERICA!!
SO THAT IN THE FUTURE OUR CHILDREN WILL NEVER HAVE TO CLOSE THEIR
BLINDS...."

Falstaff · Apr 12, 2003, 08:56 AM

embraces no one faith, race, ideology, or country.....Evil is well, in an of itself...something that one could easily find within the bunting and patriotic patina of nationalism....be careful man....I keep my flag in my heart....not on my car fender, If you want to push the emotional driven good vs. evil dynamic and applyi it to this conflict, there are more complex arguments than a comparison to violence at home, in the home or within the hearts of wounded children.....Let me put this into perspective, and I am not asking you to feel sorry for Hussein,
but is well know he was abused and beaten before you and I started school, he had to steal and lie and cheat for a criminal step father when he was a teenager, and learned to inflict the pain he felt from within the shattered psyche of a wounded child.
He learned to express his hatred and pain and learned much when he was high school age from his Grandfather, a man that published a politically and racially inflammatory book. He was beaten as a child with an asphalt covered pipe if he didn't do as he was told....From a childhood of violence, he learned violence, learned to torture and maim, and constructed his terrible vision of his future from the failed coup attempt he was nearlyi killed in the process of performing, yes he was an assasin..weep for the children of IRAQ that must be faced with violence every single day, be thankful your an american...but can you see that your analogy may be flawed if you wrap it within the american flag...I respect the thrust of your idea...but it is too emotionally charged...because I will then show you the terrible hell tha Saddam Hussein grew up in....and the subsequent terrible path towards domination and power of a people he despised....his own....Now that is a tragedy...

~~bluelight~~ · Apr 12, 2003, 09:04 AM

Well you are not gonna make me read a full page of monitor text that ends like this:

"YOU MUST NEVER BE AFRAID TO
DO WHAT IS RIGHT!
EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO DO IT ALONE!"

BE PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN!
BE PROUD OF OUR PRESIDENT!
BE PROUD OF OUR TROOPS!!
SUPPORT THEM!!!
SUPPORT AMERICA!!
SO THAT IN THE FUTURE OUR CHILDREN WILL NEVER HAVE TO CLOSE THEIR

BLINDS...."

.....my patience with reading on monoitors does not go that ......................far

Bluelight

Falstaff · Apr 12, 2003, 09:11 AM

I wonder if he really believes it? There is some validity even within the context of this emotional volley.....known only to him..perhaps..but undeniably american......so in deference to the pro american rhetoric, let me inject....God Bless America.....and have mercy on us all....ha ha...

~~bluelight~~ · Apr 12, 2003, 09:19 AM

I wouldnt take any document phrased like this like an argument either....I chyanged two words in it and yet it is a completly different thing....to some...

Sometimes the phrasing of documents disqualify them as arguments just because of the low level of rethorics.Not that im a genious at that myself.....i fail at argumentation often and loose temper which is equally bad..

"YOU MUST NEVER BE AFRAID TO
DO WHAT IS RIGHT!
EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO DO IT ALONE!"

BE PROUD TO BE AN IRAQÍ
BE PROUD OF OUR PRESIDENT SADDAM!
BE PROUD OF OUR TROOPS!!
SUPPORT THEM!!!
SUPPORT IRAQ!!
SO THAT IN THE FUTURE OUR CHILDREN WILL NEVER HAVE TO CLOSE THEIR

BLINDS...."

Bluey

Falstaff · Apr 12, 2003, 09:27 AM

But not a temper....flag waving is a a peculiar thing that we americans don't do much of, or not enough of, depending on where you are from...I don't think you would have seen many patriotic americans before 9/11, after that they all came out, it polarized a city, a state and a country and many others as well...let them wave their flags.....they are americans whether they knew it before or after 9/11....let them have their time....the real test is yet to come.....

~~bluelight~~ · Apr 12, 2003, 09:44 AM

I think all nationalism has its base in anguish one way or another.It is often founded on the "potential threat" from...something outside that brings the nation togheter.

So...fear one of the roots of nationalism.....one of them.

This applies to all countries more or less but is more sigificant at certain times..and with certain poitical currents.

Bluelight

Falstaff · Apr 12, 2003, 10:20 AM

thats american for I agree, ha ha..good night..

BWX · Apr 12, 2003, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bluelight
Well you are not gonna make me read a full page of monitor text that ends like this:

"YOU MUST NEVER BE AFRAID TO
DO WHAT IS RIGHT!
EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO DO IT ALONE!"

BE PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN!
BE PROUD OF OUR PRESIDENT!
BE PROUD OF OUR TROOPS!!
SUPPORT THEM!!!
SUPPORT AMERICA!!
SO THAT IN THE FUTURE OUR CHILDREN WILL NEVER HAVE TO CLOSE THEIR

BLINDS...."

.....my patience with reading on monoitors does not go that ......................far

Bluelight

wait, I'll post like you do so you can read the whole thing----

Hey, what do you say to the argument I had about your ost BEFORE the corny story????

Do you just ignore my point about your 2 faced comments???

Do I have to drag a response out of you kicking and screaming?

Or are you just buying time to find an argument to my point in one of your anti-American newspapers or websites you use as your personal bible????

bwx

upphhtp//kickmyasstobwxlalaland//bwxland

Falstaff · Apr 12, 2003, 11:20 PM

Quote:

BWX232
SOF2~ best MP FPS of all time
Registered: Nov 2002
Location: Buffalo New York

I am a loyal american, enlightened and fair, by my kids standards, that's pretty damn good...
but your looking for an argument from people that your not going to get...
Why don't you start another thread and ask a relavent quesiton and wait for an answer...
I wave my flag just like anyone else, but I chafe when I see it soaked with so much melodrama...
why don't you lighten up or change your direction in your posts...
I think your trying to make a point, the threads original question dealt with a debatable issue..
but your picking on people...it can be tiresome...
step back and take a look at the threads and you might see what I mean...it's only cyberspace..

BWX · Apr 13, 2003, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bluelight
I dont think that the post is irrelevant.
I think it is higly relevant.I mean it is obvious that nobody want children killed..but yet...we sit here discussing the issue blindfolded if we do not accept and see....the4 result of war.
I hear arguments about Saddam having tortured and killed..should we restrict posts about that too because it is unpleasant?
My point as i have mader it all the time...is that if we refuse to look at the consequenses of what we do no matter if our intenet is good or not...then we will never learn for the future.
Most prowar people (except yopu in fact)here refuses to see any misdeads historically at all done by the Usa.It is an impossibility to them.
Why is that...maybe because death is too ugly for them to look at and that accepting it as caused by themselves is so tough that it must be denied.
That my friend...is not a good thing.
This war is not over.
That..will take considerably more tiome than 3 weeks.I hope your government will succed in what they claim they want to achieve...
They have said that now...they will work for an independent Palestine...
Well...how much pressure do you think they will put on Sharon??
Bluelight

Bluelight, when will you ever learn- In another thread you accuse my government of being to blame because Saddam GASSED his OWN people, right here:

Quote:

Originally posted by bluelight
First.
As far as im concerned you are partly responsible for the massacre at Halabja.
I dont care if you think i am insulting your president or your government.

Quote:

Originally posted by bluelight
While this happened Halabja your conservative government had already for
at least ten years supported the man who carried this out..with weapons,intelligence and advice for ten years.
When it was known about this your senate disallowed further support for the man responsable of this:
Halabja
Your government at the time...did not bother about that and over ruled the senate and continued to support to their friend:Saddam Hussein for another three years.

NOW you and your new freind say it is our fault that poor child was hurt because we went to war with Saddam- (even though the extremely unfortunate incident that happened to hurt that child is not proven to be the US's fault, but more likely Saddam's own regime)
YOU cannot have it both ways, you are against the US and the coalition no matter what we do- So all I can do is say this:

Evil abounds when good men do nothing.

Apr 9, 2003, 10:31 PM	Thread Starter #5
Talicni_Tom DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 41 Rep Power: 0	this is just a little remainder for our euphoric warmongers here what the war really is... iraqis paid high price for their freedom...americans and british decided they have to pay...me thinks iraqis had every right to choose...nobody asked them __________________ p4 2.4b abit be7 768MB ati radeon 8500 128MB

Apr 10, 2003, 07:47 AM	#10
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,047 Rep Power: 206	sorry bluelight directed at the driveby poster no you, This guy reminds me Geraldo Rivera sometimes, oh god that was low,,sorry about that, no one wants to be called that, ha ha...anyway, Moderators have lots of power and the use it when it is necessary, I am not sticking up for them, have had my problems, but if we are patient with them, and report bad posts they generally take care of the problem,,,they are just human too, (quote). __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Apr 10, 2003, 09:16 AM	#12
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,047 Rep Power: 206	I am not blindfolded I was there man, not bragging, that is why I am not pro war, my ships missles killed inoocent people, I have fired an automatic weapon at human beings, never looked to see who I hit or what I hit, it haunts me still..my demon, my problem, my issues.....I hope my government will not repeat the mistakes of the the 80s and 90s, and let the IRAQI people down.... __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Apr 11, 2003, 03:39 AM	#14
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,047 Rep Power: 206	Ha Ha You sure act like one sometimes...and then ;you digress __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Apr 12, 2003, 07:16 AM	#16
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,047 Rep Power: 206	JavaFox I did say he reminded me of Geraldo Rivera,,that would really wind anyone up,,,I apologise Talicni_Tom, no one should be called that........can we move on? __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Apr 9, 2003, 09:39 PM	#2
JavaFox E Pluribus Unum Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 3,203 Rep Power: 0	If you want to speak at length about civilian causualities, that's fine, but if you, like some of our other members, are only going to post drive-by attacks like this with little interest in true debate, I am going to ask you to refrain from posting.

Apr 9, 2003, 09:44 PM	#3
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 177	I dont agree with war or violence and it brought me to tears today to see this poor child and his terrible injuries and the loss of his family. Having just watched Sky news and seeing the joy on thousands of oppressed iraq civilians who have suffered for 30 years under one of the most evil dictators and seeing them crying with the thought of a new life, the thought of a life, a life you and me are accustomed to and perhaps take for granted ---- brings a feeling that perhaps this war wasnt totally in vain. Having heard some men talking about the way saddam and his people have killed, tortured maimed, and slaughtered their own people while filling their pockets with luxuries and depriving their own people of even a basic way of life, brings a new perspective to my views on this. Any loss of life is a tragedy and the victims of war and the things I alone have seen make me feel very sad.............. but I feel this country and millions of people will have a better life. im praying so, just like im praying for that child.

Apr 10, 2003, 07:20 AM	#9
~~bluelight~~ Banned Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,328 Rep Power: 0	' What?!! Bluelight

Apr 10, 2003, 09:05 AM	#11
~~bluelight~~ Banned Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,328 Rep Power: 0	I dont think that the post is irrelevant. I think it is higly relevant.I mean it is obvious that nobody want children killed..but yet...we sit here discussing the issue blindfolded if we do not accept and see....the4 result of war. I hear arguments about Saddam having tortured and killed..should we restrict posts about that too because it is unpleasant? My point as i have mader it all the time...is that if we refuse to look at the consequenses of what we do no matter if our intenet is good or not...then we will never learn for the future. Most prowar people (except yopu in fact)here refuses to see any misdeads historically at all done by the Usa.It is an impossibility to them. Why is that...maybe because death is too ugly for them to look at and that accepting it as caused by themselves is so tough that it must be denied. That my friend...is not a good thing. This war is not over. That..will take considerably more tiome than 3 weeks.I hope your government will succed in what they claim they want to achieve... They have said that now...they will work for an independent Palestine... Well...how much pressure do you think they will put on Sharon?? None....if you ask me...and thus..the repression will continue against the Palestinians......and thus also The war. Bluelight

Apr 11, 2003, 10:26 PM	#15
JavaFox E Pluribus Unum Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 3,203 Rep Power: 0	Talicni, I will not tolerate you calling an entire group of DH members "braindead." Either debate without insult, or don't debate at all.

Apr 12, 2003, 08:56 AM	#18
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,047 Rep Power: 206	Evil knows no borders embraces no one faith, race, ideology, or country.....Evil is well, in an of itself...something that one could easily find within the bunting and patriotic patina of nationalism....be careful man....I keep my flag in my heart....not on my car fender, If you want to push the emotional driven good vs. evil dynamic and applyi it to this conflict, there are more complex arguments than a comparison to violence at home, in the home or within the hearts of wounded children.....Let me put this into perspective, and I am not asking you to feel sorry for Hussein, but is well know he was abused and beaten before you and I started school, he had to steal and lie and cheat for a criminal step father when he was a teenager, and learned to inflict the pain he felt from within the shattered psyche of a wounded child. He learned to express his hatred and pain and learned much when he was high school age from his Grandfather, a man that published a politically and racially inflammatory book. He was beaten as a child with an asphalt covered pipe if he didn't do as he was told....From a childhood of violence, he learned violence, learned to torture and maim, and constructed his terrible vision of his future from the failed coup attempt he was nearlyi killed in the process of performing, yes he was an assasin..weep for the children of IRAQ that must be faced with violence every single day, be thankful your an american...but can you see that your analogy may be flawed if you wrap it within the american flag...I respect the thrust of your idea...but it is too emotionally charged...because I will then show you the terrible hell tha Saddam Hussein grew up in....and the subsequent terrible path towards domination and power of a people he despised....his own....Now that is a tragedy... __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Apr 12, 2003, 09:04 AM	#19
~~bluelight~~ Banned Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,328 Rep Power: 0	Well you are not gonna make me read a full page of monitor text that ends like this: "YOU MUST NEVER BE AFRAID TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT! EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO DO IT ALONE!" BE PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN! BE PROUD OF OUR PRESIDENT! BE PROUD OF OUR TROOPS!! SUPPORT THEM!!! SUPPORT AMERICA!! SO THAT IN THE FUTURE OUR CHILDREN WILL NEVER HAVE TO CLOSE THEIR BLINDS...." .....my patience with reading on monoitors does not go that ......................far Bluelight

Apr 12, 2003, 09:11 AM	#20
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,047 Rep Power: 206	Hey Bluelight I wonder if he really believes it? There is some validity even within the context of this emotional volley.....known only to him..perhaps..but undeniably american......so in deference to the pro american rhetoric, let me inject....God Bless America.....and have mercy on us all....ha ha... __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Apr 12, 2003, 09:19 AM	#21
~~bluelight~~ Banned Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,328 Rep Power: 0	I wouldnt take any document phrased like this like an argument either....I chyanged two words in it and yet it is a completly different thing....to some... Sometimes the phrasing of documents disqualify them as arguments just because of the low level of rethorics.Not that im a genious at that myself.....i fail at argumentation often and loose temper which is equally bad.. "YOU MUST NEVER BE AFRAID TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT! EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO DO IT ALONE!" BE PROUD TO BE AN IRAQÍ BE PROUD OF OUR PRESIDENT SADDAM! BE PROUD OF OUR TROOPS!! SUPPORT THEM!!! SUPPORT IRAQ!! SO THAT IN THE FUTURE OUR CHILDREN WILL NEVER HAVE TO CLOSE THEIR BLINDS...." Bluey

Apr 12, 2003, 09:27 AM	#22
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,047 Rep Power: 206	I detect some Angst But not a temper....flag waving is a a peculiar thing that we americans don't do much of, or not enough of, depending on where you are from...I don't think you would have seen many patriotic americans before 9/11, after that they all came out, it polarized a city, a state and a country and many others as well...let them wave their flags.....they are americans whether they knew it before or after 9/11....let them have their time....the real test is yet to come..... __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Apr 12, 2003, 09:44 AM	#23
~~bluelight~~ Banned Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,328 Rep Power: 0	I think all nationalism has its base in anguish one way or another.It is often founded on the "potential threat" from...something outside that brings the nation togheter. So...fear one of the roots of nationalism.....one of them. This applies to all countries more or less but is more sigificant at certain times..and with certain poitical currents. Bluelight

Apr 12, 2003, 10:20 AM	#24
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,047 Rep Power: 206	Yep thats american for I agree, ha ha..good night.. __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."