Necrosis

Just because Jesus may have existed doesn't make him god.

Honestly if what you say is true, the the whole idea of looking for evidence of him is pointless anyway then so why...

The Lost Tomb of Jesus: Discovery Channel

That took me like 4 seconds to find, so you shouldn't have any problems.

BTW, Care to link to where it proves he or any other religious figures didn't exist, or tells the truth about their claims? See how pointless it is making such a request?

Oh my how does it feel to be so ignorant, and unable to commend what someone else says? Just because someone may question you doesn't mean they don't agree with you. However, you don't question other people or their beliefs you attack them.

Please read this carefully. If you have to sit down, and write each word on a flash card. It may take a few tries but I'm sure you'll eventually get it.

BTW, sames goes for me. I'm not taking any sides here. You can use the reverse side of those flash cards.

You can say the same thing for multiple scientific theories.

Joy more stupid quotes which prove nothing. Here is one for you.

Now I'm really special because I posted a quote!! Te-he!!

Suppose aliens landed on the planet, and said Jesus came from their home world? I guess people would have to change their beliefs, and the whole moral setup would have to be looked over. Hell what if I were invisible? What would I do, visit women's changing room, locker rooms? Thing is a lot of the people on this planet still depend on religion to establish their moral code. If you take that way you take away quite a few rules. I'd be surprised if a government would let such information be leaked out. Never mind those that believe hardcore would say it's false anyway.

It's one thing not to believe in religion but to really go after one particular groups seems repugnant. Were you molested by a priest or some thing? May I ask do you in any form celebrate Christmas?

BWX

Yet you claim to know so much.

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OmegaRED

As I said several times before, I can accept that he may have lived despite there being no proof of him ever existing. I like that the Jews realized that Christ was not a prophet rather than become delusional and make up stories that he will return in 2000 years.

My question isn't whether Muhammed lived or not but do you believe he is the prophet, I have no idea whether he existed it's not something I've looked into. You say the Koran is an accurate text but for it to be so that would mean the Bible is not the word of God.

Typical Christian, despite the fact that it would prove he never ascended to Heaven (and that the Bible fabricated this story) you'd go on believing everything else in the New Testament.

Answered that already, don't know if he did or not. What I asked you is whether you believe he was the Prophet (as the Koran alleges).

Ya, I learned that in grade 7 science class but thanks for the refresher.

Wrong, this is a typical believe of religious people who don't understand the scientific method. Next you'll claim science is a religion.

I did respond but you aren't clever enough to get it. Billions of people believe in long dead Gods and Billions today believe in Gods that you do not. Many of them have religious texts as proof but only one can be right (or all of them wrong). This means that many people are believing in a lie and if humanity is still around hundreds of years from now many of these religions will go in the history books with the other mythical Gods.

It doesn't matter how I go about giving you this information you will take is as a hostile attack upon your beliefs.

I agree, it's good to get information from people who've studied religion. I'd recommend the last two books by Christopher Hitchens he's one of the most well rounded critics of all religion.

I don't see the difference especially when spirituality is always associated with a specific religious belief.

This is ridiculous and you know it. We have fossils and technology which prove the Earth is billions of years old, which also proof that evolution is a fact and we didn't just appear as the Bible tells us. There's also zero evidence of the Great Flood. All of this disproves the Bible as anything but a fable written by men.

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OmegaRED

You'd be amazed at how much you can learn once you unshackle the mind

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OmegaRED

Nice Isaac Hayes quote Necrosis, gotta love those crazy scientologists.

They never found his body and my point is Christianity is largely based on the sacrifice Jesus made for "us", if he was just a crazy guy with a God complex that changes a lot doesn't it.

Scientific theories don't claim to be the word of the one true God as religious texts do.

Pathetic. It accurately points out the fallacy of "the leap of faith".

I don't believe in any religion but since the majority of us in the thread live in Christian societies or are practicing Christians this is what we're debating.

Yes, I love Christmas and celebrate it as much as anyone else. Christmas has spawned a secular meaning over the years, it's more about gifts and giving, Santa Clause and reindeer, family and fun. Like many people, it has no religious significance for me.

Nope, but these days it isn't hard to find someone who was.

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mike2h

you have never said christ lived, just the opposite. please, please get your stories straight. 2000 years. lol.
yet another statement with no factual basis. as you keep telling me, if you are going to talk about something, please have some knowledge of the subject.
& yet agian you get it wrong, you keep attributing statements t ome that i am not making. you say that i have said that the bible & other religious texts are 100% true, wich if you had bothered to read any of my posts you would know just the opposite. you say that i said the koran is true. what i did say is that it is an historical text, & just to be even clearer, i do believe mohammed existed, & that the koran has is teachings. my feelings about islam are part of what this thread is about
& i guess like many other questions statements you arwe not going to give an actual response to that.

lmao, no matter what is said you will try to find someting wrong with it. the problem is you only succeed in your own mind.
you still havent come up with a definition for 'christian'. i believe i am one, but by most people that are church goers i wouldnt be considered one. but like most things you shoose definitions to suite whatever you are going on about at that particular time.
& here we get t othe heart of what i was trying to say in the first place & you are totally incapable of understanding.
for me it doesnt matter wether he ascended to heaven or not, i think he probably did, but what is most important is what he taught, & the overall message of his life. but because you have this total negative spin thing going concepts like that are beyond your narrow view.

you may have heard it, but i dont think you 'learned' it.

no im right, how else can you define the belief in someting that is not apparent & isnt there. another news flash, the word faith can be used in other situations that dont involve religion.
never said it never will. though it has been said by many other people, including quite a few scientists. & the way some scientists approach their research/studies/work it could be 'religous' in nature. not that it matters.

ah, no you didnt. ever. you say the bible isnt accurate because it is second hand knowledge, etc ( though this is patently false as the apostles were there). by your definition, most of the history books out there must be false to, & the further back you go the more 'false they are. so i still want to know about your rewrite of history. my bet is you will never respond to this, like many other things.
your 'only one can be right' is yet another fallacy on your part. unlees you are privy to gods personal plans.
most 'religions' through history have been baseed on non understanding/an explanation of natural events. you should know this. thus they have no real basis as being included in this discussion as man as a whole has learned enough/matured enough to get beyond them. for whatever reason you havent as you keep bringing them up.
while christianity, islam, buddhism, etc, may not be the same in a few hundred years i guarentee you that ouside of some major event they will still be here as they have been to deeply rooted in to many cultures for to long.
but anybody that doesnt hate religion/spirtuality knows that.
"billions of people believe in long dead gods"
you keep bringing up that ridiculous either 'one is right or all wrong' argument. while it may be true, it is not an absolute, because you dont know what the creators plan is. you also have no concept of human kindness/goodness because these are the things we will be judged by. i have told you before how i think we will all be judged(dont know if im right but it is the only thing that makes sense to me) but like most things you dont want to hear/ doesnt agree with your jaundiced view point, you ignore it.

yet again you are wrong. spirituality, while mostly associated with religion, isnt a soley religous experience. you can go to church every sunday & never be spiritual, you can never go to church & never believe in a specific religion & still be spiritual. the reverse of course is also true.
of course if you had actually done an open study of things religous instead of your negative, openly biased research you would know things like this.
lamo again. & ty bty. you are just as bad as the anti evolution crazies - the other side of the coin. i & most other people have no problem reconciling the two together. your statement about the us just 'appearing' shows yet again that you really have no knowledge of the bible. peretty much everything you seem to know seems t ocome from somebody elses opinions. do you actually have an opinion of your own. the whole point of research is to gather knowledge from all sides then form your won thoughts. your reasearch seems t ocompletely one sided. & all you dop is parrot othe peoples opininons. this is evidenced by you true of knowledge in many areas.
and actually there is evidence of a great flood in the ne med/ black sea area. wether anybod ywas there or not i have no idea. but if the ywere it would seem like the world had been flooded.
all of what? i have never argued that there many inconsistincies/errors in the bible - especially the old testament. just dont understand why you keep bringing it up.
the bible has been used as a historical reference to help uncover many archeaological sites. stretching from arabia to iran. there are towns/events/peoples that they wouldnt even know about except for the fact that they are mentioned in the old testament. you SHOULD know this.
just so you know, me & one of my brothers used to 'enjoy' going to various churches & do what you are doing. we stopped for several reasons, we grew up/matured/ we actually did some real research instead of just looking for negative aspects, got tired of having that negativity as part of our belief system. he still tends towards the atheist side - basically believe in some sort of creator but doesnt really care that much either way. & i have stated my position many times. not that you are interested.
i have no problem with anybody that doesnt beleive in an overall creator of some sort becuase of my belief system. i do have a problem with people that shove religion down other peoples throats & tell everybody they are going to hell if they dont believe the same way.
they push their beleif onto anybody. they insult your beliefs on several levels & denigrate them more if they dont believe the same way you do. they have nothing factual to back up their claims except for more negativity & uninformed opinions. they have have no interest in what anybody has to say on the subject unless it agrees with them, & twist facts to support their position.
when their silly circular logic fails they end up with something along the lines of you are going to hell.
there is no reasoning with people like this as everything is driven by emotion & there is a very thick wall preventing even the concept of them being wrong/new ideas.
you are exactly the same. wich is why im done with you.

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OmegaRED

I said there's no evidence he existed but that I accept the possibility he could have existed.

I don't know what planet you live on but Biblical events are not the same as historical record. Point me to the history book that has a chapter on Jesus ascending to Heaven I'd love to read it.

Christianity has an uncanny ability to survive the test of time and I agree in 500 or 1000 years from now it would still be around; many other religions will have passed into myth during this time just like the Ancient Greek and Egyptian Gods.

It is true. So many religions directly contradict the other that logically only one could be right and Occam's razor would suggest it too is wrong.

I don't live in a fantasy world where some supernatural dictator is reading minds and taking notes about who's been naughty and who's been nice.

Spirituality is such a vague word that it can apply to nearly anything.

Was I support to explain the whole story of Adam & Eve?

Why do I keep bringing it up? God does not make mistakes...ever. He is all knowing and all seeing yet can't even write books without contradicting himself and making plenty of errors.

I prefer the honesty of fundamentalist's, they expose the true nature of their religions to the masses and show what a bunch of hypocrites the wishy washy believers like you are.

In closing, I'll leave you to few of my favorite quotes:

Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
- Thomas Jefferson

That which can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.
-Christopher Hitchens

We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes
- Gene Roddenberry

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MGaz

Haven't read pratically ANY of this except a few posts but..

The religios people who cause the most problems in the world are a few narrow minded medevil minded people who do not represent the majority of there faith.

They are however a mirror (albeit an 'extream' reflection) of ourselfs in the west only a few hundread years ago. even going back just 60-70 years ago, there were plenty of examples of people in the west whos ' religos beleifes' & 'opinions of others who don't conform' would be hard to swallow in todays Politically Correct world. Hell, there are a few who still think like that today.

Just imagine todays governments trying to deal with the acts of Christians of a few hundread years ago. sure, They may not blow them 'selfs' up lol. but There persicution of others, and there lack of human rights for women, and certain nationalitys would be unforgivable by todays standards.

For every unhumain act we see commited against others, there is a shadow of our past selfs.

To understand the mind set of extream regimes, we only need look to a past when we our selfs stoned people in the street, cut off the fingures of theives, trialed people by fire, tied WITCHES to chairs and drowned them... & exicuted people for there crimes.

if you think about it, the idea of 'Human rights' in the west has evolved in a relativly short time.


Maybe in time the REMAINING extreamists will evolve too?
I think that is probably the reason they do what they do.. because they are afraid of CHANGE & what our culture represents to THERE way of living... in much the same way as our past fathers tried to control the 'then' radical ideas of the young.

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mike2h

mgaz, while some of what you say is true, & you raised some good points, it doesnt address the problem that the major religions(&christianity was good for all sorts of nasty violence) have outgrown/modified their propensity for violence. islam hasnt, & doesnt appear to want to.
the big problem we have now is that fanatics(of whatever sort) in the past were limited to the amount of violence they could commit. this is no longer true. which is why the world in general does not & can not afford to give them time - assuming that it would even help.
i wished i knew & most impotantly that the powers - that - be knew what the answer is. they need to figure out something soon.
islam has had a culture of violence since its founding 1,400yrs ago. while the vast majority of muslims do not participate or actively support these cowardly acts. the lack of a concerted effort from the followers of mohammed to stop these acts commited in the name of their religion is disconcerting at best, & criminal at worst.
i have a lot of respect for such a large group of people to be able to hold on to their core beliefs for so long & against much adversity. but at some point, they either have to reconcile themselves in some peacful fashion with the rest of the world or isolate themselves completely & have no sort of traffic/relations with the world(as education & modern ways & goods are the root of a lot of the problems) or deal with the consequences of their actions & inactions.

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BWX

Copy/pasting atheist websites is how you define "unshackling your mind"? LOL.

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Zelig

Why would that be their responsibility?

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BWX

Because it is their religion (EDIT- and religious beliefs) being used for the excuse of it's radicalized counterpart.

It's the same way the good Catholics denounced the bad priests who were molesting the kids, and the higher-ups who were protecting and moving those priests around. The good ones spoke out against the bad ones, we do not see the same thing from the moderate Muslims, at least not in any meaningful or helpful way. The silence is deafening. And believe me, I am no fan of the Catholic faith, I am just using that as an example.

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mkk

What would be a meaningful way beyond the debate against violence amongst muslims and the numerous counter-fatwas that has been issued?

Don't forget that in many conflicts where a muslim population is involved has little to do with the religion. If for instance rockets are fired from Gaza by a group that claims to be religious fighters, it's understandable if the population doesn't try to stop them because they themselves are being terrorised far worse. They may or may not disagree on the others claims of being warriors of god, but the conflict is about livelihood and not religion.

On the other hand in Iraq the main conflict has long been between groups of populations with a different views on what makes a good muslim. There the other group is the main target and while many others die, the proportion of the latter is so exaggerated by our media. Who are civilian group A and B meant to critisise in a meaningful way when the enemy is within the other?

OmegaRED

It was a joke dumbass. I've been Agnostic for a long time and tended to stay out of religious discussions. I'm not on the fence anymore

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MGaz

i totally agree that there 'inaction' to deal with there own, (or at least there apparent 'lack of enthusiam') is the main problem.

Same as with Africa vs the problems in Zimbarbwie...


All i was attempting to do in my other post was to highlight a point. I never said i had a workable 'solution' lol.

All though knocking them on there head may be a start! (that was a joke btw) lol

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BWX

Now that sounds like someone with an unshackled mind.

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mike2h

bwx, please dont feed it

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BWX

That is just making a case for someone who says even the moderate Muslims are basically violent.. and that is why they do not speak out against the radicalized ones. First they will themselves be blown up if they are anywhere near, but beyond that maybe they sympathize with the radicals to some degree.

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BWX

It's funny how some people only know how to throw insults and call names all day. Almost comical.

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mike2h

mkk & mgaz
the funding for the terrorists comes from somewhere. housing comes from somewhere. all the logistics/infrastructure thye need to survive is supplied. many, many people are involved, but neighbours, business's, wittnes's etc dont report or do anything about all these things happpening around them.
a wholeheated, overall denounciation, that was backed up by actions would help a lot. at least that way the cowards couldnt hide behind religion like they do.
when we get fanatic religous groups that are close/are doing something violent/illegal we do someting about it - dont always agree with the actions taken, but at least something is being done.
bottom line - if all/most of islam was to rise up against these fanatics that are using their beliefs to commit cowardly & atrocious acts they would cease to exist.
i dont think it will ever happen though, becuase islam does have a core of violent teachings that it refuses to get past.
that is one of the big differences between the bible & the koran. the old testament had & promoted quite a bit of violence, the new testament tempered that quite a bit, along with a few hundred years of humanity growing more mature(in some areas anyway).
islam as a whole. imo, has never 'matured'. it was founded in violence in violent times, it has made no provision for humanity growing & changing. anything that is as profound to human nature as religion can be, can not remain static & serve its peoples best interest.
islam ( & christianity is still a work in progress but at least it recognises the need) really needs to find a way to fit into the modern world - while keeping its basic non violent tenants.
from admittedly small amount of study i have done, & violence aside, islam as a whole is a wonderfull belief system, that promotes love & respect for the planet & all living beings. theses beliefs are what are in the majority of muslims hearts, makng it very, very hard to make changes. but for the them & everybody else to have a hope at an existence that does not include fear & hatred, changes have to be made.
& mgaz, i didnt think you were implying you had 'the solution' though it would be nice if somebody, anybody did.

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OmegaRED

Did you just make a funny?



Guess not...

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Reckless187

HAHAHAHAHAAH Hilarious. I am enjoying this. I'll be right back after I've attended my local weekly how to be a good terrorist meeting. I am minuting the meeting & will publish said minutes once I get back.

Kthnxbye.

Senor_Mota

^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^
Scenekid

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Reckless187

^^^^^^^^^^^
100% f*cking true.

What does scenekid mean btw?

OmegaRED

Urban Dictionary: scenekid

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MGaz

"He’s not the messiah, he’s a very naughty boy"
"Now go away!"..

lol (life of brian)

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