CDsDontBurn

I had seen this in the news a few times before, but right now, i'm watching a documentary on this on the Discovery Times Channel about the Westboro Baptist Church (WBC). These guys are nothing but a cult. Oh, what irony it would be if all these people all went to hell and everybody else went to heaven.

EDIT:
i just learned, that they were sued for 11 million back in october for their picketing. however, they have still filled an appeal.

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kris23

wow......

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Zelig

Phelps used to practice as a lawyer, and has a good idea of what they're legally allowed to do.

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Grace

And just how do they know? Do they expect everybody else to believe something just because they said it, or do they expect everybody to believe that they understand the will of God?

These are some of the few people I'd like to throw handcuffed out of a truck in the middle of Tehran.

...or offer them handcuffed in an Irish pub in that case, no need to go to the desert, sand and all that...


These guys hate everybody but me (thankfully) and themselves!

Falstaff

if its on the tele then it must be so..



"not"

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OmegaRED

I've heard all the members of the Church are lawyers which would be interesting if true (since they lost their case despite the massive legal team). "Church" isn't really what they are, it's all his extended family.

Years ago I went down to the Courthouse when Fred Phelps and his "God Hates Fags" brigade came to my city to spread their hatred but since then I've changed my religious views and now understand that what he is basically doing is taking the Bible literally. God does hate fags because the Bible was written by people who hated homosexuality. If you truly believe in the Bible then America wouldn't be in God's graces since it is based on secular values not Christianity.

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CDsDontBurn

but if god "loves all" where do "fags" come into play? this would be a complete and utter oxymoronic term here.

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OmegaRED

It would be impossible for God to hate "Fags" since he created them that way. He hates them because He is really "they" and "they" is a bunch of people who wrote the Bible by committee.

As for the God Loves All stuff...

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Senor_Mota

Wow... You know who these guys sound like, right?



I don't think you need to attend eight years of Law School to sound like a f*cking bigot piece of sh!t.

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mkk

That's a girly sword right there.

Senor_Mota

\

HAHAHAHA!!!!

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Kazeko

Little old, but i had to bring this up...

Omega I'm not trying to rip on you in any way, just using the pic you posted as an example/reference.


This passage also reads...

"Saul answered, "The soldiers brought them from the Amalekites; they spared the best of the sheep and cattle to sacrifice to the Lord your God, but we totally destroyed the rest.""


Now, that's the NIV version (New International Version)

King James version reads....

"And the Samuel said to Saul, " the lord sent me to anoint you king over his people Israel; now therefore hearken to the words of the lord."
Thus says the Lord of hosts, "I will punish what Amalek did to Israel in opposing them on the way, when they came up out of Egypt. Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and donkey ("Donkey" edited for PC purposes)."


Basically what I'm getting at here... is that there's literally HUNDREDS of different translations, interpretations and meanings one can find in the Bible.


Some people take the word of the Bible verbatim, as though they should be slaughtering a ram and spraying it's blood on the Altar of God as the bible would indicate in Leviticus.



The bigger point is what Falstaff said...

"Just because the TV said it, it must be true... NO."

This warmed my heart.

One of the biggest problems I see is the acceptance of face-value, rather than the rationalization and effort required to find reality.


Christianity's isn't exclusively what someone else tells you it is. It's what you get out of it and what you find in Christianity.

TV can be a great source for news and opinions, the problem is that much of America (and other countries, I presume?) accepts the TV as fact, and accepts the opinions they're given by TV programs, assuming every word of a broadcast is true and factual. It's not. More and more often it's becoming false, or incomplete.

Note: Don't forget. Television stations, even in America, are under NO obligation to tell the truth.


If you take someone else's opinion or statement as fact without questioning it, you've given up the ability to decide for yourself.
There's a level of responsibility associated with making an opinion and finding reality, but that responsibility is part of Power.

With so many translations of the bible, and so many interpretations of world events, I would suggest, rather than accepting the TV as fact, or accepting a statement on the internets (including my own) as fact, you seek the answers for yourself.



Note: This is not directed at anyone specifically.


Personal Thought Section - What disappoints me, is that Christianity is being Villanized with no prior knowledge of the religion, only opinions others are accepting as fact.

Fr4nk3nst41n

/me *looks for a bible*

/me *reads bible*

i agree with the above post 100%

and lets not forget that the bible is just a BOOK! anyone can write(and re-write) a book about anything. its up to us to LEARN(not to just blindly follow) wich notion or idea

OmegaRED

I agree with this, the Bible could be written by anyone and most likely was edited so many times by so many people that all of it is suspect.

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Falstaff

God does not hate anyone or thing.
absolute rubbish and twattle.

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OmegaRED

Does God hate anyone? The answer is yes.

• Psalm 5:5, "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity,"
• Psalm 11:5, "The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates."
• Lev. 20:23, "Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them."
• Prov. 6:16-19, "There are six things which the Lord hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil,
  19 A false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers."
• Hosea 9:15, "All their evil is at Gilgal; indeed, I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels."

http://www.carm.org/uni/Godhates.htm

That was only the 2nd page Google spit out there's lots of them.

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Kazeko

As was referenced before (and subsequently agreed with) God, does not necessarily hate anyone. Perhaps the authors or slant from translators and/or editors did.

Again, Christianity is what you get out of it. If you think God is hateful... all you. I feel bad for you, and might be inclined to suggest some attention, but go go Quaker mentality I guess.

OmegaRED

Pardon me Kazeko, I didn't realize you were on a 1 on 1 basis with God. Next time you talk to him ask Him if he loves screaming babies on airplanes...surely He has limits too.

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mkk

Probably among the top reasons for airplane accidents.

Anyway it's not so surprising that many christians turn to Jesus rather than God, even if that's something not easily admitted outside branches that may openly prefer Jesus to God.

OmegaRED

This explains why nearly every Christian I've debated religion with brushes aside the Old Testament like it's a rough draft for the New Testament.

I guess I do the same thing with the Star Wars prequels

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mkk

Heresy! *sorry, could not resist since the prequels are nothing but lies from the devils tounge*

OmegaRED

Ouch! I got negative rep for that Star Wars comment

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Sandok

There are so many excuses to cover up the mistakes of "god".

He's all powerful and all great? Yet evil exists so it must be HIS creation no? I mean, he is everywhere in everything so evil must be his idea?

Cancer and disease is god's work then? People with HORRIFIC genetic disease is, if god models us all, his work no?

And god, according to the different religions that represent him hates a LOT of things...

Falstaff

again...
God hates n0 one....
Omega mentioned that the scripture was written and re-written by men over a thousand years so envitably it will be twisted to echo the sentiments of men, but God does not hate anyone, christianity like many religions is about love not hatred..Just googling a few passages from the bible will not suffice..
again..
rubbish and twattle.

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OmegaRED

Typical religious rubbish.

All the good things in scripture are true but the moment there is anything bad it's a translation error or edited.

Whenever a person does good in the name of religion it is virtuous and praised but if they do bad it's called extremism or fundamentalism.

Christianity is about love...except when it isn't. Islam is a religion of peace...except when it isn't.

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Senor_Mota

Assuming you've read the Bible (which obviously, you have, or you're really good at pulling quotes from it), "God" is omnipotent, omniscient and infinitely benevolent - therefore, he has no emotional limit. Of course, this is all based upon theory and here-say, so what truly separates science and religion? It's all based on what other people think about someone or something. The stigma of "God" is based solely upon infinity - an approach that man or humanity will never come to an end. So in that fact, how could "God" "hate" the screaming baby on the airplane? His patience is "infinite". How could you hate the screaming baby? It's just doing what babies instinctively do for the first year of their life to gain attention from their paternal influences.

So what truly separates "God" from man? It's easy - humanity has hope, reason and faith in thinking that there is one being or one consciousness out there who will not be so petty and vain as we are. We may be right and we may be wrong; but not a SINGLE person out there can define what truly happens once we leave our Physical makeup for the Coporeal makeup that is theorized to concur after we die.

For me, Death is an end to something that cannot end - but who can say time is infinite? It is simply a process designed by mankind to monitor our ongoing decay. Since everything most people believe to be true is based on pure precursory speculation to begin with, can we not say that "God" is not really "God" at all? Could it be something simpler, or more complicated? These are answers that may not never be revealed to us. But for now, in this moment, you can believe what you want to believe, because you have faith in yourself. You think you're right because you do. No one, not even "God", can change that.

If "God" is really watching, he'll know you've had the strength and faith to do what YOU think is right - and isn't that the point of Christianity anyways? To do the right thing in the reflection of "God"? Maybe, just maybe, people will realize someday that love, life and happiness are all things we create for OURSELVES - not for anyone else. There will always be those whom you wish to influence with your positivity, but they may not think you're right in doing so - because they think they're right.

It's a brutal, vicious cycle with no end - somewhat like "Time", "God" and "Death", all concepts perceived by man and only one with any sort of proof. You live within time, you live within God, but Death only brings finality to the process. Like I said before - do what YOU think is right. You don't have very much time here to make an impact - for when Death's visage comes calling for you - you won't have "time" to call "God" and make amends for every single negative happening in your life. You'll die in the middle of it.

You just might have time to think that you lived a good life and you did what you thought was right, what you thought was true. People loved you and you loved them. You made your impact. It's peaceful, calming and serene to know that. Isn't that the way you'd want to go?

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mike2h

good stuff senor, but your selling a good bill of goods to the wrong person. omega doesnt want to 'discuss', or 'debate', he just wants to denigrate.
he will ignore what doesnt fit into his view & cant refute with his skewed logic. or he will use somebody elses opinions/thoughts to refute your concepts.
his bottom line is debasing religion & people that have ANY sort of belief in any god. not sure why he spends the time & energy to put down so many peoples belief systems...
bty, i tend to believe in god as an overall good entity & that EVERYONE will be judged on how they act according to what they know is right & wrong in their hearts. not on the specific religion(i do have issues with religions as a whole) they believe in. sounds like you are similar. i have presented this concept to omega before, & like ANYTHING related to a belief in a supreme being he had issues with it.

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OmegaRED

I don't hate people for their religious beliefs but in many cases the religion they practice does not deserve my respect, it's not my problem if you take it personally when I point out Biblical fallacies.

This guy says it much better than I could, I feel the same way as him.
YouTube - Why does faith deserve respect?

He addresses many of the accusations you guys have made against me.

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mike2h

i apologise, hate was to strong of a word. i wiil change it.
i actually agree with some of his points. however, the problem you & him seem to have is you class anybody that has faith or believes in a religion into the same negative group - this doesnt seem to be something you, or from what i can gather from his single statement, or him seem to be able to get past.
imo(& i have stated this to you before) people that make it their mission to put dowm/tear down religion/faith are the same as those people that go around telling people that if they dont beleive in their particular brand of god they are going to hell/wherever.
i also believe their are names for people that classify/define whole group(s) by the actions of a subset of that group(s).
anyway, as we have both stated before, neither of us is going to convince the other of anything related to this subject.
thx for link bty, it was interesting.

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OmegaRED

While you, the believer, sees your faith as different than others which exist now or came before it, we see all belief in a supernatural being as the same. Whether it's Christianity or The Vikings the components are always the same (powerful gods, afterlife, etc). The stories may differ but there's never been any evidence of any God. The moment someone says "I know there is a God" they are delusional because it is beyond our knowledge.

Would you say the same of a person that went around saying Ghosts, Goblins and Werewolves didn't exist? I doubt it. Telling people to be rational, use critical thinking and evidence to support their claims is not the same as telling people to be delusional and live in fear of an eternity in Hell.

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