Zeitgeist Movie.

OldBuzzard

I'd tell you, but they are watching, and I don't want them to come looking for me

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When looking for a reason as to why things go wrong, never rule out sheer STUPIDITY

[hobo]eclipse

shit buzzard, yer prolly one of them


mental picture: oldbuzzard at his workstation:

"oooh, oooh big boss man with a badge larger than mine, look over here at the Americans talking about liberty, sound money, sensible foreign policies and leaders who look out for the best interest of the people instead of just seeing them as consumers, what are we gonna do with em, huh? huh? plz, plz let me push the button!?!?"

OmegaRED

I already know you are lazy because anyone with the motivation to find the truth would know there were NO BOMBS in the towers and they fell because some fucking fanatics flew planes into them. Perhaps you think those planes were holographic images...goddamn you've got a lot of nerve calling me ignorant when the controlled demolition theory has been squashed a million times.

Why don't you shut up already and go read those links Buzzard posted. It should clue you in that a skinhead was handing this video there's nothing but bullshit in it.

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Judas

i'd like to know how jet feul.. in confined areas can reach such temperatures to do the damage it did in the short time..

i'd also like to know what the rapid gunshot sounds were before the places even hit....

i'd like to know how metal that is saposed to have twisted or sheered... managed to end up with the perfectly angled cut they ended up with, i'd also like to know how motel steel remained molten steel for so long...

i'd also like to know exactly how a building, that had already conceived of airplane hits, and have made thebuilding able to withstand such hits, managed it.....

How does a "terrorist" that took pilot lessons and failed measerably ... even according to the teacher that delt directly with the "suspected" terrorist.... stating that he couldn't fly a plane stright if his life depended on it.. managed to hit such a wildly hard to hit target so perfectly.

How are some of these people so easily identifiable.. but others not.... for people having been "saposedly" crashed... singed and covered in a molten steel for long periods of time.. how the hell are they able to identify them and find thier personal goods so easily... while people on the top and lower floors basically noneexcistant...

the list goes on..

and video i've found and anything of read that has been put up for debunking... has usually turned up just as badly if not worse one sided then the conspiry..

Anyone can say that it's been debunked a million times. .but it also has turned around that the debunking theory has turned up short yet again...

I'd also like to know how a building, with that amount of reinforcement could possibly fall free fall, i've yet to see any building... doesn't matter the scale.... freefall that quickly.... hell even some of the demolitions don't fall that quickly..... nor does it make sense how some other buildings happen to fall so quickly...

or where the video recordings that WERE there.... to see some of the details.. happen to be locked up by the government... explain to me... how can you possibly debunk that kind of evidence.... wtf would be the purpose of such an act... wouldn't it be just easier to throw us the tape.. watch it? The longer they hold onto it, the longer it's likely to be edited....

Theres alot of damn good reasons for them to do this... non of which should be justifiable...

but to simply say... "no non of this is possible, non of this would ever have happened in that manner...." is no different then some of the parents thinking thier children are angels... while they go do drastic and unimagineable.... things....

Scale it... you get enough people together... to work out the details.. and have the time... you can do anything at all.. even the impossible, or what was thought as impossible... and the less other people know about it.. the better....

Omega.. i really think your dreaming up a wonderful world.... i wish i could live in your reality....

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OmegaRED

I'd like to know how people could be so stupid as to believe the government planted truckloads of explosives in the towers...and no one noticed. And to what purpose? Iraq? Bush was going to Iraq with or without 9/11 all he needed to say was WMD's and it was a done deal.

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Judas

you don't need truckloads.. and it's not hard to get anything through any form of security or through the doors of any building wearing the right equipment or having the right name tags....

i don't know how stupid people could be to consider that government to be as corrupt free as they think they are......

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Vikingod

Judas, you crack me up. I bet the walls of your house are covered in magazine clippings with highlighted sections connected with multicolored yarn and thumb-tacks. I'm not sure you live in any reality, let alone Omega's. Every question you asked has been answered, or can be answered, by some understanding of the forces at work. I also suggest you pick up a book regarding the design and construction of the Trade Towers. Then again, I guess it's easier to watch a movie about some wacky conspiracy theory and take what they say for granted.

The problem I have with conspiracies such as this, is they are derived by people with no base knowledge of the subject matter. It's just people thinking something up and coming to broad conclusions, or worse, getting something factual, and misenterpreting to suit they're own needs.

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OldBuzzard

Viking...it's pointless to argue with these people.

Logic means nothing to them.

Facts mean nothing to them.

Physics mean nothing to them.

The believe it becuse they WANT to believe it, and nothing is going to stand in their way.

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When looking for a reason as to why things go wrong, never rule out sheer STUPIDITY

Judas

Thing is i don't have any of either...

i don't think up weird conspiracies..... far fetched or not.... i watch both.. without bias.... and i typically try and find evidence for myself to see who is indeed telling the truth... Or half truths.. or complete full out lies... partial lies... mixed with truth... or if some of these people are just throwing thier own personal figures into the mix...


Frankly i don't beleive anyone... No one seems to be completely honest with anything.. at all..... Alot of people seem to be full out and out blind to the possibilities of the other side having some of it's theories and facts or infactual evidence/proof...information straight.. and vice versa....

And quite often... 90% of the anything that was indeed filmed... is either cut out, or thrown together to proove the point in thier favor anyways.

I don't watch zeitgiest and go "wtf, why don't people understand this.."

I watched zeitgiest and consider what it had to offer for information, and i'll add it to my already growing bit of "possibly usefull or maybe useless" list of information, a reference of sorts.

I also watched the entire 4 hours of the "frontiers of construction" of the those 2 towers... the most interesting part of all was the design including both private and commercial airplane hits... as well as possibly larger future designs..... it's quite a brilliant idea that they came up with, not to mention the REAL and at the time of building footage.

Now i'm not saying that some of the stuff that has happened wasn't possible... it's just highly unlikely... for the stuff to unfold EXACTLY as it did, 2 airplanes hitting a building of thier size, and bringing them down as they did, doesn't make sense at all...


When demolition people can stare in aww at the way they fell.... i wonder how many of them looked in horror not at the fact they were falling, but how they were falling and how utterly nearly impossible for not only one, but both of them to fall as they did...

The pancake theory has been brought up and thrown down countless times... i simply refuse to accept that as a possibility.. as the factors that play into it... doesn't make any sense even with the video proof that is available...

How many demolitions has thier been around the world with large buildings.. not even of this size... brought down via imploding? Lots, how many, even with the proffesionals around the world.... have brought down a building only to find it hadn't imploded as it should have.. even with ALL the charges going off correctly and the works......

It's interesting... none the less.....

It's not that i don't beleive that the buildings came down as they did just because 2 planes hit it and fire and all that other crap happened... it's just that i find with my own current judgement.... that it's at the bottom of the "chances" scale vs the other possibilities evident.

And everyone has thier own reality.....

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Judas

So a few links to a few dozen "official" or non official or whatever website.. dictates facts/physics/logic?

Either way i look at it, both sides are idiots... if someone has to tell you what is, or you have to read it, watch it, or whatever.. and you can't be bothered to sit back and actually stew over it all, and possibly not even make up your mind about something.... i find that your just as bad as the other....

I'd like to prove some of these things for myself... but i can't atm..... maybe never.. don't know...

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[hobo]eclipse

+1 Judas

that is a flat out false statement

seems 9/11 may be the biggest "zeitgeist" of them all, because no one wants to talk of anything other than it

OmegaRED

Ain't that the truth. I blame pot smoking college students for 90% of the 9/11 conspiracy theories.

It's such an insult to the memory of all the people who died on 9/11 and even to the threat of terrorism itself to persist in such delusions as these conspiracies suggest. People don't want to believe in terrorism they'd prefer shadowy governmental figures who will never be discovered...maybe it helps their dumbasses sleep at night

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Judas

That's complete bullshit omega...

The search for truth is an honorable trait..... reguardless of what it could end up meaning..

pulling the "insult to those that died" crap is a horrible example of how far some people go to discredit someone else.

Seriously i can't beleive you just did that, that indeed IS an insult to the entire human race imo....


And the twin towers was only meerly an example.... one of which unfortuneately everyone seems to want to DWELL on.....

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OmegaRED

It is an utter disgrace to pretend those people died from an imaginary shadow conspiracy rather than Islamic terrorists. Grow up Judas.

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Zardon

I appreciate this matter proves very sensitive for people and that it will always turn into a heated debate, but hey lets try and just chill a little guys. The weekend is coming up, crack open a beer.

OmegaRED

I don't drink beer cause the Government puts chemicals in it to control our minds!

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[hobo]eclipse

Lets have a look at what Larry Silvertein the current WTC leaseholder is and isnt willing to answer about his actions that day

YouTube - Larry Silverstein (video taken 3-13-08)

oh, and if you must read, or just dont understand the language "from the horses mouth", lemme know and ill get u a transcript

OmegaRED

Was that supposed to be the smoking gun? Maybe I do need to see the transcript because I didn't hear him say "we blew up the towers, it wasn't terrorists".

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[hobo]eclipse

Cmon Omega i did say the video contained that, is that an OK thing that this man was caught in a lie about who he talked to and wouldn't even touch the question? Or that he sued the insurance firms insuring the WTC mulitple times in order to get the event classified as 2 seperate attacks, effectivley doubling his claim from the $3.5 billion range to $7 billion+ dollars?

OmegaRED

This guy is old news and not proof of any conspiracy.

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[hobo]eclipse

Conspiracy aside, strange he wont answer the question on who it is he actually talked with on the evening of the 11th and agreed to pull, weather it be the firefighters (who were actually already moved away from earlier in the day) or the building itself. He is just not a credible source for what actually happened on that day, but did get the $7 billion insurance claim that he fought to double.

Judas

it's an utter disgrace to simply accept everything that most people tend to agree with.... it's called going with the flow.... riding the biggest wagon, being just another person that tends to not think twice about anything and goes on living a life in ignorance... perhaps it's blissful, but i can't stand it.


You state it like it's fact..... in actuality, it's just the "accepted" fact.... but doesn't mean it's indeed true. Take your own advice.... you call me an idiot for considering different possibilities... and trying to think outside the box.... if you had it the way you seem to want to think, we'd still consider ourselves the center of the universe, the world would be flat... people would still be executed for even questioning anything of any sort. Think about it.


How can you sit there, and say for certain that it's indeed.. "this way"..... where you there, the entire time? Did you witness all the drama that occurred... that's not possible, you couldn't possibly in all those places at the same time to know for sure, for yourself.. that any of this happened like you say your beleive for a fact it do...


and please...

Quit playing the "people died" card in that manner you are.

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power_drain

I forgot who it was, but somebody said that the bombs i was talking about were two planes full of jetfuel. First of all, the WTC as explained by the architect, was designed to sustain multiple impacts of 737 impacts from all sides of the building. That being said Jet fuel burns at 1,000 deg C ''the maximum flame temperature increase for burning hydrocarbons (jet fuel) in air is, thus, about 1,000°C—hardly sufficient to melt steel at 1,500°C.'' - Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse? Science, Engineering, and Speculation

''[COLOR=#7519ff]In the mid-1990s British Steel and the Building Research Establishment performed a series of six experiments at Cardington to investigate the behavior of steel frame buildings. These experiments were conducted in a simulated, eight-story building. Secondary steel beams were not protected. Despite the temperature of the steel beams reaching 800-900° C (1,500-1,700° F) in three of the tests (well above the traditionally assumed critical temperature of 600° C (1,100° F), no collapse was observed in any of the six experiments '' - How Hot Did The Jet Fuel Heat The World Trade Center?

(wtf why is my text purple) If the heat of the jet fuel and fire isnt hot enough to melt steel, then why did the towers collapse? Your looking at the fact that both of the towers collapsed in exactly the same fasion which is pancake fasion, straight down. Which is the way it should look during a controlled demolition. Also there is photographic evidence of the WTC core columns being being cut diagnally, from thermite Thermite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Obviously this core column beam couldnt have looked like this after a collapse from fire.. Evidence Of Thermite On WTC Core Columns - Photo

Also have been reports of molten metal, surrounding the wtc and building 7 after the collapse. How could molten metal be created from jetfuel.

Firefighter Describes "Molten Metal" at Ground Zero, like a "Foundry"

The only way molten metal could appear would be from thermite explosions from the basement.

More evidence is shown in the documentary Loose Change as well as zeitgeist, though zeitgeist stole some information from loose change.
Dont question any more until you watch the videos, or you will just make a fool of yourself.
--Edit

Also I forgot to mention building 7, how could it have collapsed when it wasnt even struck by a plane? It had a few scattered fires in the lower floor, in the front of the building. And if the building was in fact brought down like that, it should have lurched forward, when it fell, But instead it collapsed straight down, avoiding contact with surrounding buildings and leaving them perfectly safe..

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[hobo]eclipse

Seems these folks should have some base knowledge of the subject matter, and can even think logically enough to setup a web page and a petition! Have a look see!

AE911Truth

AE911Truth petition signers

Falstaff

what can you say......
I am sure there will be more interations of this sort of thing
it isnt faith that is the problem, it is man...

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[hobo]eclipse

Oh Falstaff, I love you man!

Sadly enough, even if a bomb was to drop and bacon takes fight, there would be no difference, people deserve to know what happened and is happening to them.

Falstaff

indeed...
but those that wish to find the devil either in the technology or in the word of God need look no further than see their image in a mirror..
we are the caretakers of this earth, mere stewards of what we deem to be our world, therefore our responsibility, regardless of what we believe is to safeguard it for the future and refuse to mortgage the future of our children for what we wish to do today.
It is the duality of man I am afraid, to seek perfection and never attain it either spiritually or with technology, but we will try.
I made my peace with God along time ago, and I know there will be wars, rumours of wars and intrigue enough to fill the history books of the victorious and the vanquished.
If we really knew what goes on around the meeting tables and boardrooms of our world it would scare the hell out of us and force us to think about what we can do ourselves to prepare our souls for what ever reward there may be, or lack there of. We are no accident or chance blending of cosmic goo.. What ever anyone believes, one thing is true, we are never short of lies, half truths and hyperbole. So much time is spent ignoring the obvious that energy is wasted rationalizing what is going on around us. I have just two words. Human nature. We are not ready to take ownership for this world and we easily speculate and believe whatever we see on the television, film or on our own computers.
The temporary suspension of disbelief might be what makes a movie a blockbuster, but useless in the face of the media and the tools to disseminate more crap.
Its like who will be in the whitehouse next time, does it matter? I will vote and make an informed choice, I will watch the news, I will listen to opinions, etc. But I know that no matter what I think, the world we know from our finger tips to our LCD screens is evolving into a huge mess. I just try to find what I believe to be convincing and interesting things that I see or hear, but trust little if anything I read anymore about politics and conspiracy theories, etc.

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OmegaRED

If only you could apply that skepticism to religion, you'd win me over

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[hobo]eclipse

Just had to put to rest the some disinformation that was posted in here about people who would like another investigation of the event or believe something different may have happened on that day. They are regular people, some who were directly affected some weren't. But to falsely classify them as not being able to operate in a world of logic, or to say the claims are made by people with no base knowledge of the subject matter is just another "zeitgeist" being pulled over your eyes.

Falstaff

who says I dont...
but I have faith and I believe
that sustains me and keeps me centered
perhaps for you it is something more tangible

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