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Old Jul 12, 2008, 11:10 AM   #1
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Obama and McCain - the choice is obvious

Obama and McCain
Thomas Sowell
Thursday, June 05, 2008

Now that the two parties have finally selected their presidential
candidates, it is time for a sober-- if not grim-- assessment of where we
are. Not since 1972 have we been presented with two such painfully
inadequate candidates. When election day came that year, I could not bring
myself to vote for either George McGovern or Richard Nixon. I stayed home.

This year, none of us has that luxury. While all sorts of gushing is going
on in the media, and posturing is going on in politics, the biggest national
sponsor of terrorism in the world-- Iran-- is moving step by step toward
building a nuclear bomb.

The point when they get that bomb will be the point of no return. Iran 's
nuclear bomb will be the terrorists' nuclear bomb-- and they can make 9/11
look like child's play.

All the options that are on the table right now will be swept off the table
forever. Our choices will be to give in to whatever the terrorists demand--
however outrageous those demands might be-- or to risk seeing American
cities start disappearing in radioactive mushroom clouds.

All the things we are preoccupied with today, from the price of gasoline to
health care to global warming, will suddenly no longer matter.

Just as the Nazis did not find it enough to simply kill people in their
concentration camps, but had to humiliate and dehumanize them first, so we
can expect terrorists with nuclear weapons to both humiliate us and force us
to humiliate ourselves, before they finally start killing us.

They have already telegraphed their punches with their sadistic beheadings
of innocent civilians, and with the popularity of videotapes of those
beheadings in the Middle East .

They have already telegraphed their intention to dictate to us with such
things as Osama bin Laden's threats to target those places in America that
did not vote the way he prescribed in the 2004 elections. He could not back
up those threats then but he may be able to in a very few years.

The terrorists have given us as clear a picture of what they are all about
as Adolf Hitler and the Nazis did during the 1930s-- and our 'leaders' and
intelligentsia have ignored the warning signs as resolutely as the 'leaders'
and intelligentsia of the 1930s downplayed the dangers of Hitler.

We are much like people drifting down the Niagara River , oblivious to the
waterfalls up ahead. Once we go over those falls, we cannot come back up
again.

What does this have to do with today's presidential candidates? It has
everything to do with them.

One of these candidates will determine what we are going to do to stop Iran
from going nuclear-- or whether we are going to do anything other than talk,
as Western leaders talked in the 1930s.

There is one big difference between now and the 1930s. Although the West's
lack of military preparedness and its political irresolution led to three
solid years of devastating losses to Nazi Germany and imperial Japan ,
nevertheless when all the West's industrial and military forces were finally
mobilized, the democracies were able to turn the tide and win decisively.

But you cannot lose a nuclear war for three years and then come back. You
cannot even sustain the will to resist for three years when you are first
broken down morally by threats and then devastated by nuclear bombs.

Our one window of opportunity to prevent this will occur within the term of
whoever becomes President of the United States next January.

At a time like this, we do not have the luxury of waiting for our ideal
candidate or of indulging our emotions by voting for some third party
candidate to show our displeasure-- at the cost of putting someone in the
White House who is not up to the job.

Senator John McCain has been criticized in this column many times. But, when
all is said and done, Senator McCain has not spent decades aiding and
abetting people who hate America .

On the contrary, he has paid a huge price for resisting our enemies, even
when they held him prisoner and tortured him. The choice between him and
Barack Obama should be a no-brainer.

I found this article interesting, primarily because I am not impressed with either candidate, but in light of criticism of the democratic and republican cronies taking pot shots at each other and the retracted statements by the stalwart supporters of both parties it appears that this is not the lesser of two evils to vote for either, but rather the evil of two lessers.
I have the highest respect for McCain, but presidential hopeful or occupying the highest office un-nerves me. I would rather have a court jester like Clinton because he is so predictable in action, word, thought and deed.
Obama? My God, voting for anyone just because of sex, race or any other cultural bias is just plain wrong, and his message to his constiuents lately is equally un nerving.
That leaves me with McCain, even after all his years of loyal service and dedication to the American people, something about him takes me just as close to nuclear war as Obama would.


Something about both choices has diminished my expectations, but the people of the United States are going to have to take a hard look at both of these candidates before making a choice, or just bitch about the one that got away. (so to speak)
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Old Jul 12, 2008, 03:05 PM   #2
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interesting reading Jeff.
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Old Jul 15, 2008, 04:04 AM Threadstarter Thread Starter   #3
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voting for either candidate will take America further down the slippery path of all out War in the near future with an emerging economic power on some level.
Oil prices continue to go up.
Hunger for Oil and fossil fuels has increased vs decreased
energy saving technology is poised to replace fossil fuels in the future but that will drive up food costs.
Conventional war has achieved a new dimension as America responds to asymetrical warfare.
cyber war will be the next major conflict America will fight or is fighting now.
If you thought eaves dropping was morally wrong, stand by for a new paradigm in intelligience gathering.
Nothing and I mean nothing is private anymore.
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Old Jul 15, 2008, 02:27 PM   #4
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USA follows a 2 party system
so voters are stuck with either of the 2 candidates

anyway i'm not even American,but i guess i'd rather see Obama as president than George Bush the IInd,i mean Mcain
I'm sure a few Americans would agree with me for that matter too
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Old Jul 16, 2008, 06:51 PM   #5
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I think when people see McCain they automatically think of GW. Obama is something different but not in a way to help this country.


If there are terrorists in the United States (Which there most likely are) I think they would vote for Obama over McCain. That is where my decision comes down to. I think of who the most evil would vote for and I vote for the opposite.


Good post though Jeff.
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Old Jul 17, 2008, 02:45 AM   #6
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If there are terrorists in the United States (Which there most likely are) I think they would vote for Obama over McCain. That is where my decision comes down to. I think of who the most evil would vote for and I vote for the opposite.
That is one way of looking at it. The terrorists should want a Republican in the White House because Bush has been very very good for their cause, going so far as to credit terrorists for nearly ever battle in Iraq ("terrorists and other insurgents" comes to mind). McCain will continue this kind of fear mongering because this is what his party is built on.

Personally, I don't give a fuck who the terrorists want to vote for, most of them have never even had the right to vote.
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Old Jul 18, 2008, 03:35 AM   #7
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That is one way of looking at it. The terrorists should want a Republican in the White House because Bush has been very very good for their cause, going so far as to credit terrorists for nearly ever battle in Iraq ("terrorists and other insurgents" comes to mind). McCain will continue this kind of fear mongering because this is what his party is built on.

Personally, I don't give a fuck who the terrorists want to vote for, most of them have never even had the right to vote.
its no reason to get your panties in a bunch.
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Old Aug 2, 2008, 10:34 PM   #8
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I think of who the most evil would vote for and I vote for the opposite.
I think that is a very negative way to make such an important decision. You should vote according to the policies of the candidate that you feel most reflect your opinions, morals, aspirations and political beliefs. That is what a democracy and democratic (with a small 'c') election is all about.
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Old Aug 4, 2008, 06:27 PM   #9
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I don't think the article you've posted does a good job supporting its crazy leaps of logic. It's just filled with typical republican scare-tactic buzz words. Osama? Nuclear weapons? Nazis! Oh my!

Maybe if McCain had any real strengths they'd be showing those instead of trying to tear down the opposition.

Oh I'm supposed to vote for someone because they've been tortured in a war? Well that makes about as much sense as voting for someone because they're black! Sorry, republicans, I'm looking at the issues not the marketing.
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Old Aug 4, 2008, 09:39 PM   #10
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John McCain's campaign is such a joke. He is not going to win this election with such uninspiring tactics. I think his campaign is run by amateurs not those seasoned attack dogs that Bush had.

The Daily Show took a great swipe at McCain recently in their "Dick move of the Week" segment.

YouTube - The Daily Show, Dick Move of the Week!
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Old Aug 5, 2008, 03:25 AM   #11
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My problem with america at the moment isn't even my choices for president, my problem with America is that the lobbyist win, in congress not the people. Patriot act, pile of crap leglislation, DMCA Another pile of crap. I am a navy veteran I understand that sometimes violence is the only solution that will actually effect change, however fear mongering and playing on people's subconcious fears of self preservation are for FASCIST IDEALS. Last time I checked we were suppose to be lead by DEMOCRACY (Actually a Democratic republic since we don't have a prime minister)

All that said, I use to live in the state of Minnesota whern Jesse Ventura was elected. I wish we could get a person like that on the ballot that "energized America" and totally didn't stand for the ideals of the lobbyist and everyone in America would vote him in.

Republicans are supposedly "conservative" Right, what do they conserve? PRO LIFE as long as it's smaller then a Pinhead, but Pro death for murder, (Hypocrits) Also, Our budget hasn't been balanced in years, I'm for spending what we need, but you have to make a sacrifice somewhere else, and not sacrifice education.

The problem with Democrats is they are to busy worrying about domestic issues they refuse to see that we now live in a Global Community, and a Global Economy, So we must take actions that give us the edge. For example if they offered to repeal the drilling moratorium, (just in principble) it would threaten Opecs monopoly hold, Nobody would actually have to even drill. the threat of supply from outside sources would drive cost down.

Basically the problem is we've been doing the same crap for the last 200 years, and america is now to lazy to actually change anything it needs to because we're stuc with senators and politicians that make it their lifes work, and then become disconnected from their constiuents.

All that said, I'm for Obama, Not because he is a democrat, but because he hasn't been in congress long enough to be corrupted. And I think 4 years of him, is better then 4 years of more republican bullshit. We can always vote him out in 2012. And let's cut the bullshit, They have like 40 advisors, I am sure if theres enough credible intelligence on terroism either candidate will act, "Commander and chief" means if the president decides he could start World war 3 without congress, simply by ordering an airstrike (he can order single military actions), just not commit troops..
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