[hobo]eclipse

Georgia's president said Friday that his country is under attack by Russian tanks and warplanes, and he accused Russia of targeting civilians as tensions over the breakaway Georgian region of South Ossetia appeared to boil over into full-blown conflict.

CNN

SFOSOK

I saw this on BBC america yesterday. All the world is doing is saying stop it while people continue to die.

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*Warning* - Explicit Content Preceeding



METAL!!

Judas

maybe if they count to 10 .........

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FuNsTeR

the biggest mistake the west ever made was not to kick the soviets out of Eastern Europe in 1945 instead of appeasing the commie cunts

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"They say when you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear satanic messages ..... but that's nothing, if you play it forward it will install Windows"

temeteus82

Georgia isn't East Europe. Even Mr. Stalin was born in Georgia

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[hobo]eclipse

Evidence of U.S. Military Presence in Georgia

CNews


July 15, 2008


TBILISI, Georgia (AP) — Georgian and U.S. troops started a joint military exercise Tuesday amid growing tensions between the ex-Soviet republic and Russia, a Georgian defense ministry official said.

temeteus82

It looks like Mr. Bush and Mr. Putin has more to stuff to talk about in Beijing ...

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FuNsTeR

well if Georgia isn't eastern europe as you say .... care to tell us why Georgia competes in the European Championships and are seen as European

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"They say when you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear satanic messages ..... but that's nothing, if you play it forward it will install Windows"

temeteus82

Well all goes how you define what is Europe or not. I think the ural mountain range is the line between Europe and Asia. But you during the WWII Georgia was indeed part of Soviet Russia. So it wasn't occupied during the WWII by the Soviets. Only the Baltic countries, Polan, Hungary and so on and so on are Eastern Europe to me.

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Sandok

You obviously don't know the world's history very well... Actually the Brits were all for getting the Russians out of easter Europe, it was America that wanted otherwise (because they thought they might need em against Japan, thus had to be kind).

And it bit em in the ass. Actually, come to think of it, sort of the same story with Afghanistan... I guess it's true, history does repeat itself

BlueMak

And do what? Attack Russia for this attack against Georgia? No one is that stupid.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

Falstaff

This is an internal matter for Russian, civilian deaths, wide destruction, disease and famine are all part of the story of human conflict. There has been a war in that region long before the Soviets and then Russia attempted to conquer the people there. As Teme just mentioned, Comrade Stalin was born there, and lots of other dissidents as well.
There will always be wars and rumours of wars. Wait within the next two years, there will be more civil unrest in China, etc.
If America survives another 2 hundreds years, we will undoubtedly have our own again as well, and this might be econonmically rather than racially or culturally driven. But call it what you will, its all about power and money.
Anyone care to lake a look at how Russia and her nieghbors move gas and oil across their respective countries and the economic empact of that for the future, because this is going to continue to escalate.
I am always certain there is Russian Billiionaire in the middle of this somewhere.

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[hobo]eclipse

care to elaborate on this or share any info\links? something id like to hear/read more about.

Falstaff

Simon Tisdall: Oil powers Putin's ambitions | World news | The Guardian
Europe Joins The Argument Over Russian Oil - TIME
The Oil Drum | More on the Azerbaijan, Belarus, Russia oil and gas confrontations
http://www.belarusguide.com/industry1/chemical.htm

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SeraphicSorcerer

I am pretty sure there this is all still about bad blood when Soviet Russia broke up and Georgia came into the fold. Remember Putin is Ex KGB - He's all for the money, and the motherland. And Georgia does control a very large pipeline. Who knows though. Actually it runs near South Ossetia which is why I am sure people don't want it falling into the wrong hands.

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Judas

this has great potential to become something catastrophic....

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SeraphicSorcerer

Yeah I just don't think we're in a position at the moment to start world war 3. Which is why it's a war of words, and france of all people is pushing peace.

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Callandor

World war 3 won't start until the "elite" of this world, (and by that I mean with money), decide to create the new world order, the fact of the matter is, the wealthy of this world have the politicians in each and every country by the balls, don't believe me wait and see wars are the best tool for indebting governments and amassing even greater hordes of wealth, and thus, power in a double edged way if you will. You just wait until the world is divided into zone 1, zone 2, zone 3 and so on. Ofcourse this might not happen for still quite some time to come...

I'm not posting any sources but if you know how to use google/and or dig for it you can find leads on your own. They're all over the net/world/in broad daylight for all to see.

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[hobo]eclipse

Revealed: how U.S. funds Georgian arms

The United States has been providing military and technical support to independent Georgia for almost 15 years. During this period, the overall amount of annual aid from Washington has increased by more than several hundred times, and reached its peak in the financial year till 2006. It has meant that Georgia’s army was well prepared for an attack on South Ossetia. RT offers a brief history of the preparation by the Georgian armed forces for the war.

• 1994: Georgia received $63,000 under the programme of the International Military Education and Training (IMET).
• 1995: Georgia received $85,000 under IMET.
• 1996: Georgia received $302,000 under IMET. It purchased American military equipment for $66.000. Total: $368,000.
• 1997: Georgia received $312,000 under IMET. It purchased American military equipment for $66,000. It received $700,000 under the programme of the Foreign Military Financing (FMF). Total: $1,068,000.
• 1998: Georgia received $416,000 under IMET. It received $5,350,000 under EMF. Total: $5,766,000.
• 1999: Georgia received $394,000 under IMET. It received $7,950,000 under FMF. It purchased American arms for $19,000. It received $9,227,040 under the programme of Additional Defense Expenses (ADE). Total: $17,590,040.
• 2000: Georgia received $409,000 under IMET. It received $3,000,000 under FMF. It purchased American arms for $3,949,000. It received $575,000 under ADE. Total: $7,933,000.
• 2001: Georgia received $481,000 under IMET. It received $4,490,000 under FMF. It purchased American arms for $5,171,000. It received $575,000 under ADE. Total: $10,717,000.
• 2002: Georgia received $889,000 under IMET. It received $55,500,000 under FMF. It purchased American arms for $3,647,000. Total: $60,036,000.
• 29th April 2002: Pentagon announced the beginning of the Programme of Preparation and Equipment for Georgia (PPEG). The programme was implemented upon Georgia’s request for assistance in order to enhance its abilities to fight against terrorism, in the Pankisi Gorge in particular. The program was planned for 18-20 months. It included special seminars and training as well as supplies of light armaments and other military equipment for the Georgian army. Total budget of the programme was $64,000,000. Also, at least 150 American military experts were sent to Georgia. The Programme of Border Security and Law enforcement, with a budget of $3,200,000, was implemented at the same time.
• 2003: Georgia received $1,184,000 under IMET. It received $6,900,000 under FMF. It purchased American arms for $9,825,000. It received $4,525,054 under ADE. Total: $22,434,054.
• 2004: Georgia received $1,040,000 under IMET. It received $12,000,000 under FMF. It purchased American arms for $7,405,000. It received $2,786,257 under ADE. Total: $23,231,257.
• April 2004: Programme of Preparation and Equipment for Georgia was formally completed. The programme of operation for stabilisation and reinforcement began. It was formally intended for the preparation of Georgian armed forces to be sent to Iraq. The first stage of the program was planned for 18-20 months with a budget of approximately $60,000,000.
• 2005: Georgia received $1,413,000 under IMET. It received $11,904,000 under FMF. It purchased American arms for $32,044,000. Total: $45,361,000.
• 2006: Georgia received $1,275,000 under IMET. It received $11,880,000 under FMF. It purchased American arms for $106,714,000. Total: $119,869,000.
• 2007: Georgia received $1,235,000 under IMET. It received $10,000,000 under FMF. It purchased American arms for $10,876,000. Total: $22,102,000.
• September 2007: Beginning of the second stage of the programme of operation for stabilisation and reinforcement.
• 2008: $800,000 was allocated to Georgia under IMET. $10,000,000 was allocated under FMF. $9,319,000 was allocated for purchase of American arms. Total: $20,119,000.

BlueMak

That's 350 million dollars over 14 years...that's nothing.
Greece is about 2.5 the size (population wise anyway) of Georgia and spends something like $7-8 billion per year not including any aid or possible secret funds, you still don't see Greece getting ready to invade any of its neighbours.

Besides, from the looks of it, Georgia wasn't getting enough lol.

I think it's quite clear, Georgia thought they could get away with attacking the rebel or "rebel" provice of theirs, quickly capture/liberate it and Russia, totaly not expecting it, find itself unable to do anything in time. (They also attacked the russian "peacekeepers" which was just plain stupid)
They were mistaken, they got their asses kicked and now they cry because the other side defended themselves. Well, tough shit.

I have no issues positive or negative against either country, just how it looks to me.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

[hobo]eclipse

regardless of our opinions/truths, is this not just downright strange?

YouTube - Ghost Recon 1 Intro

Falstaff

At the risk of making anyone feel Naive, Mr Bush and Putin have a plan in spite of what is occuring now. Russia will prevail, its in the cards. We have mobilized units to support the humanitarian mission, but America and other countries have been doing this sort of thing for years. Its energy and power politics.
oh and I forgot to mention
War.

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[hobo]eclipse

humanitarian? is that by the clintonesque definition? were we not there before the humanitarian need?

Sandok

Russia has attacked a country (Georgia) without UN support for no real reason other than terrorism.

USA attacked a country (Iraq) without UN support for no real reason other than terrorism.

Isreal attacked a country (Lebanon) without UN support for no real reason other than terrorism.

Everyone has blood on their hands these days.

cozumel

and it will always be so...

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BlueMak

Russia attacked Georgia after Georgia attacked russian citizens and peacekeepers in north ossetia. Russia asked for condemnation from the security council, but the USA and the UK refused to do so. If I was in charge of Russia I would do exactly what they did, in my view they were 100% right to do so.

Israel again was defending its citizens, kidnapped soldiers and trying to stop the attacks from Lebanon. Once again the UN did shit to stop the attacks from the other side of the border, Israel had to defend itself. In my view, they did right, though in a horrible horrible way.

USA, in the case of Iraq, I am deeply sorry to say this, was very wrong and unjustified to attack Iraq. Iraq was not a threat in any way nor were there terrorism cells aiming or planning against american interests. Instead of focusing on Afghanistan and end that war, this complete fuck up of a war took place where unknown numbers of Iraqis dies, and thousands of american soldiers, for nothing.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

Sandok

BlueMak, I totally agree with you! What I wrote was just a very short, summurized little post

SeraphicSorcerer

I am a veteran of both Afghan and Iraq, got injured came back, the shit I saw in Iraq just made me go, "uh", the crap from Afghan however, those guys are truly radicals.they are truly fanatical. I guess anywhere you go you will always find people who think their shit don't stink.

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mkk

Sometimes a news story doesn't quite spin the way you want it to:
YouTube - Fox News: 12 Year Old Girl Truth about Georgia

BlueMak

Sad and funny.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.