Iria

As the U.S., nay, world economic crisis clearly affects his poll numbers in a downward direction --- McCain himself, mind you, has said his economic knowledge isn't all it should be --- he has turned to nearly 100% negative campaigning, rather than focusing on the issues.
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Source: SNAFU-ed

SeraphicSorcerer

He's "Republican" Need I say more?

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OmegaRED

The election is all but over for McCain and if this is what we can expect to see until election day he will not recover. He's used up all of his talking lines and now it's time for his A-Team to attack. Palin has been fully unleashed and is completely destroying whatever appeal she had by implying Obama supports terrorists while Cindy is out there saying Obama is killing her son and other soldiers. This is not Carl Rove style machinations (he was more subtle) and while it may lock down a few Republican voters it's going to sway everyone else towards Obama.

A landslide victory sure does seem within reach...

I like this quote from Biden:

"All of the things they said about Barack Obama in the TV, on the TV, at their rallies, and now on YouTube … John McCain could not bring himself to look Barack Obama in the eye and say the same things to him ... In my neighborhood, when you’ve got something to say to a guy, you look him in the eye and you say it to him." - Joe Biden.

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Falstaff

you all never cease to amaze me...

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OmegaRED

McCain is now paying for the negative ads he's been running.

Crap like this...
YouTube - Disrespectful

...has put him in the uncomfortable position of defending Obama and telling people the opposite of what his party has been saying

YouTube - McCain: Be respectful, Obama is a decent man. *CROWD BOOS!*

I'm actually starting to believe McCain is a much better man than his party will let him be but he sold out to make it this far.

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Falstaff

they all sell out...
its politics...

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SeraphicSorcerer

Of course, but at least Obama's Have a SLIVER of truth attached, Mccains are all flat out lies.

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OmegaRED

McCain's campaign must believe the sheer number of lies is so overwhelming that the damage to Obama outweighs the consequences of getting caught.

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thunderclap

I realized the other day the only people who shouldn't be allowed to vote are non-U.S. citizens, people under the age of 16 (screw this 18 B.S) and people who watch Fox News.

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Marc B.
Genrefinity.net - Your source for all things in the horror, science fiction and fantasy genres

SeraphicSorcerer

I honestly love everyone who thinks Fox doesn't spin news.

I've got some land to sell em in Antartica.

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chillbilly

Falstaff has it right. It's politics and political BS transcends political party affiliations.

BOTH campaigns are as guilty as hell of promotiing outright lies and half-truths.
Anyone naive enough to assert that only one party is promoting lies in this race has no business in the voting booth.

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[COLOR=#df6c36]"E[/COLOR][COLOR=#df6c36]verything we do, everything we are, rests on our personal power. If we have enough of it, one word is enough to change the course of our lives. If we don't, the most magnificent piece of wisdom can be revealed to us and that revelation won't make a damn bit of difference".
[/COLOR]

OmegaRED

That's just too cynical for my tastes. Yes, all politicians are bullshitters but I draw the line at lies with malicious intent. I guess that's why I get turned off by attack ads. If Obama was doing what McCain's camp is I'd feel the same way.

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Falstaff

Be cynical, be very cynical in these times.
the rise to political power hasnt changed very much since we started taking notes.
There should be limits to how much you trust anyone, even if you voted for them, to manage the country in which you live in.
An ideal leader not only serves the interestes of his or her constituents, but acts in the interest of the nation, to restore, preserve, protect and lead that nation.
Now that takes courage, support, money and opputunity at the very least.
If we peel back the shiny veneer we have applied to our most famous leaders we will find corruption, lies, trickery, double dealing and outright demi-goggery (my word). And those that wrote the history of the nation focused on what outstanding achievements or disasters to define thier position in time.
I dont believe the hype, I dont believe Obama or McCain, (sorry folks) until I hear a coherent plan, and frankly I havent.
I vote for someone just because he is white or black, male or female, warrior or peace maker without a f*&king plan!!!
I havent heard anything from either one and dread the choice I will have to make very soon. And believe me I will make a choice, in spite of the sickening attacks on McCain and the Republicans, and the hypocritical support of Obama, this folks is the evil of two lessers and is not unprecedented in history.
Whomever becomes president, the first year of that administration will be crucibal that forms the metal of the instrument that they will use to shape the world in which we know now. One of those two men will be shaped as well as try to shape the country I come from and will be equally changed by circumstance.
The faliures of the past 6 presidents are coming back to haunt the new administration and cannot be dismissed.
Foriegn policy
Wars
Affliiations
Espionage
investments and loans to world powers
emerging economic powers
pollution
global warming
clean water
nuclear waste
weapons of mass destruction
global power projection
United Nations
disease
immigration
financial polcies
(just to name a few)
This is what our new leaders face, and I havent heard any salient points on any of these issues that go beyond the promises either have made to win votes, etc.
Our only legacy so far is how much of our childrens future we have mortgaged already just to serve the interests who is in power now.
Cynical?
just a tad.

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Eeastcoasthandle

Another satisfied fox news watcher

OmegaRED

With all due respect, almost all of those issues are not new to America and the rest of them (except WMD's and Power projection) are experienced by almost every other major nation on Earth.

Regardless of the mistakes by the past 6 Presidents, Clinton left the White House debt free allowing the nation to tackle these issues at its own discretion. It is directly a consequence of George Bush's administration that the nation is so deeply in debt that getting out of it would make doing anything else on that list a far off dream. He is the only failure involved and I wouldn't describe it as haunting since he's still the Commander in Chief

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Falstaff

Clinton did not leave the whitehouse debt free mate...where are you getting this? All he did was increase tax revenues over 85 percent.
If the revenues grew faster than he spent it, then he claimed to have balanced the budget, but that couldnt be further than the truth..
I was one of those Tax Payers!!!!
If the Clintons had succeeded in passing the Health Care reforms we would have even less to thank Bill Clinton for. You might well thank Allan Greespan or the Gramm-Rudman-Hollings Balanced Budget Act.
Tax Hikes mate...not tax relief is what Clinton might well be famous for.
and btw..the tax reforms of preceeding administrations had a great more to do with the economic boom that Bill Clinton's administration got credit for. Yep thats right...some damn republicans decided to control federral spending, etc and that contibuted greatly to the increase in federal revenue during the Clinton years. Clinton reduced public spending, etc and forced other tax measures through congress, but failed to really pursue the democratric or liberal agenda. The Clinton economy is full of contridictions and half measures that ensured that no future president could ever sort it out.
Here is my beef about the former presidents, that in spite of their faliures and successes, the government is slowly dipping into our pockets more frequently now than ever before.
I live in England now and marvel at how the British people tolerate Gordon Browns taxes, etc.
No one has ever successfuly balanced any bloody budget in America in quite along time and there is and will always be a deficit that taxpayers are supporting with their wallets and checkbooks.
However anyone feels about their respective former presidential adminstrations the media will continue to spin the liberal agenda.
The democrats will still continue to take credit for reform.
The republicans will still continue to bury their money in the yard, etc.
of course those are gross generalizations, but before you give BIll Clinton a great deal of credit I have to say with the list I came up with in my former post came right off the top of my head because it is a great deal more extensive than what I could produce in a few seconds.
I dont understand why whether it is new or not has any relevance at all.
What I do see is more sniping from with either the left or the right and as long as people are naive enough to remain focused on the hype and hyperboli rather than the obvious then political ignorance shall remain blissful for them.

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Eeastcoasthandle

OldBuzzard

So, anyone that doesn't agree with YOU shouldn't be allowed to vote?

How very LIBERAL of you

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When looking for a reason as to why things go wrong, never rule out sheer STUPIDITY

Falstaff

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Falstaff

its more like " if your not a "______" then you dont care about America".
The problem with politics in America is that it is corrupt.
People can feel anyway they want to about anything but for God's sake some folks should get their head out of the sand and take a look around. Regardless of how anyone feels about civili liberties, they are slowly being eroded.
The leader that will impress me is the one that tackles those issues that immediately impact the quality of life of "all " Americans, regardless of colour, sex, race or creed.
The problem with liberalism is that someone has to pick up the tab for the wonderful ideas and programs and ventures.
I am not one of those Americans that feel we should give a dime to anyone that can get off their butts and go to work.
America has created a culture of "Hey I am entitled to that dammit" and that is draining our local and national resources to the point that further taxation is inevitable, but then I have already seen that.
We will eventually become like many socialist governments worldwide and that simply cannot happen.

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OldBuzzard

Sorry Falstaff, I gotta disagree. Today's liberals, here in the states, are all about suppressing dissent. They believe in "Free Speech", only when it is speech that they believe in. Disagree with them and you are shouted down, labeled as 'hateful' or 'racist', and even in some cases assaulted.

I saw it as a returning Viet Nam era vet, and it's even worse today.

Just look at the part in the quote that I put in BOLD. Here's a liberal, that honestly thinks I should be denied my Constitutional right to Vote. A right that I, as a veteran, served to protect. And why? Just because I 'think' differently, and choose to watch a TV news program that he diagrees with?

What next? Will they want to put me in a 're-education center' until I 'repent', and 'agree' with them? They have already started down that path with their various "awareness/sensativity training programs". Programs where I, as a Causasion male of European descent, am told that I am the source of all of the 'social problems' out there, and whether I know it or not, I'm a racist, homophobic, sexist, etc., etc.

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When looking for a reason as to why things go wrong, never rule out sheer STUPIDITY

OmegaRED

What's the weather like in Imagination Land? That guys comment about FOX news viewers not being able to vote is his and his alone. For you launch into a rant about it shows how deeply out of touch you are. Christ, you sound like my Grandad (although he actually likes that "colored fella" Obama)

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chillbilly

When I review the tack that Obama has taken against McCain with his ads, I see absolutely no difference at all in the degree of distortion or "malicious" intent between him and his opponent. This type of back and forth with malice is more a standard than it is an exception and that's sad. But even though it is pitiful, the politicians seem to take it well and expect it. What a sad commentary on politics in America.

What you view as cynical, I see as a truthful analysis of our political structure and the spin that accompanies it.

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[COLOR=#df6c36]"E[/COLOR][COLOR=#df6c36]verything we do, everything we are, rests on our personal power. If we have enough of it, one word is enough to change the course of our lives. If we don't, the most magnificent piece of wisdom can be revealed to us and that revelation won't make a damn bit of difference".
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Falstaff

It isnt a rant if its true and it makes sense, but then liberalism, democrats or republican agenda(s) might be lost on those that suckle the teet of the liberal media.
Its all clever marketing as far as I am concerned, and many of us that refuse to put our heads in the sand and accept whatever the media promises have some clarity of thought. I can see the bovine excrement in the UK journalism, US journalism, etc. Some of the best reporting I have seen is actually in Germany for instance or Japan.
If anyone is in imagination land, its the person that accepts the left or right wing agenda without first using the appropriate filters.
The liberal agenda costs money
The left wing agenda costs money
The right wing agenda cost money
Politics cost money
ask yourself
what are you willing to pay for, because that is bottom line.
If your government is pissing away the future of your children on more weapons, taxes, and ill concieved social reforms, then it is time to change direction of your politics...
or keep taking it up the proverbial keester and keep your head in the sand.
as for me, my keester is a one way valve and I refuse to bend over for the popular media and support the bullshit.
I will give unto Ceasar what is his, but my soul and my heart belongs to my higher power.
(oh yeah...that was a rant)

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OmegaRED

You haven't been paying attention. The McCain ads are disgraceful and show that his campaign has sunk so low that they've done everything but openly label Obama a terrorist. It's going to get worse in the last couple weeks before the election then we can revisit this topic and see if you notice the difference.

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Falstaff

it actually could be a great deal worse.
Surely there are people that either opponent have stepped on to get where they are now.
Who knows, one of them could have been part of a failed buisness scheme and now one by one they are dying off..
or one of them could have been caught lying about serving heir country, or worse yet, split thier party in two after unsuccessfully achieving thier respective parties agenda.
but I digress.

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chillbilly

Haven't been paying attention? My ass.
I've observed the same political crap as everyone else.
And I've checked these supposed facts about BOTH candidates on fact check as well as having a fairly firm understanding of the congressional record.
Give me some examples of how and why one is "lower" than the other.
If you're going to generalize without giving absolute examples, there's really no point in debating these supposed differences in style with you.


This is not my first time at the political rodeo.
I don't need to revisit what will be exactly the same ole' same ole' later on.
It's all been done before and repeated again and again and that's not cynical....it's a hard dose of reality that apparently falls short of the realization of many.

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[COLOR=#df6c36]"E[/COLOR][COLOR=#df6c36]verything we do, everything we are, rests on our personal power. If we have enough of it, one word is enough to change the course of our lives. If we don't, the most magnificent piece of wisdom can be revealed to us and that revelation won't make a damn bit of difference".
[/COLOR]

Falstaff

I just saw the last debate...
yawn.......
again...
the evil of two lessers...
whatever happens....
niether one these chaps better tax us into oblivion...
riggggghhhhttttt............
I spoke with bar manager last night in Harrogate, he marvelled at the contradictions in the what American politicians say and actually what they do, and I was surprised that he rarely takes stock in what the popular UK media churns out, rather he reads on the financial sites like Reuters, etc for up to date news.
He like everyone else want to know how the coming elections in America will affect the bottom line. He believes, as well as I do, that America is still a powerful economic force that requires a strong administration to steer it back to growth, for the benefit of not just American investments, but worldwide economic health as well.
I was impressed with his political knowlege and acumen, but then he is from the Yorkshire area, and they always impress me.
Standby America, take your money out of the bank and invest wisely, because the worst is yet to come.
I fared better than my colleagues, only losing about 500 pounds total on my investments and I learned a great deal.
I encourage everyone that can afford to do so, think about what your money will be worth 5 or 10 years from now, and invest carefully.

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OmegaRED

Entertainment wise, it was a better debate than the previous one but I could only stand about 35-40 minutes worth of the drivel between them before I put on an episode of "The Shield"

The thread title still speaks volumes of the McCain campaign and that's all I saw last night from him. Nitpicking and attacking Obama...he even had the audacity to claim he was the victim because Obama supporters have gotten out of hand at rallies. I could not believe Obama sat there through that and didn't open up a can of whoop ass (so to speak). Obama kept his cool and tried his best to keep on message rather than bicker about their respective campaigns.

All in all...boring stuff but it's clear McCain is angry and frustrated and he knows this is the end for him. Obama might as well start sending out his victory party invitations because he can just repeat the same lines over and over until Election Day while McCain stumbles over himself trying to pick a fight. I wish Obama had someone more challenging to deal with...someone who could really make these "debates" informative and decisive. Sigh

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SeraphicSorcerer

I just think that everyone who is only concerned with the "bottom line" doesn't see the "big picture" Gotta spend money to make money champ. If Obama's Energy policy actually gets pushed through, It will create jobs, an entirely new industry if we can get all the damn people to actually bring something to frutation. Which will be the real test of the Obama presidency, if nothings changes he wont be back for a second term.

I think the entire Mccain camp reminds me of the movie blazing saddles, It's just that comical. I know you'll all take this comment in an entire way it wasn't meant to, but You obviously don't see my dark side humor.

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