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Jun 4, 2003, 08:14 AM
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#1 |
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Everyones life has worth
Join Date: May 2003
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Death Penalty
For or against? Since they caught that bomber guy and a girl in my english class was mad that they were going to give him (or any person) the death penalty. I just couldn't agree with her. I'm for it, hell if the guy get's caught on video doing the crime I vote for going straight from the courthouse to the chair. Makes less paperwork and makes more room in prisons.
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Jun 4, 2003, 08:35 AM
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DriverHeaven Senior Member
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I'm with you, Theres to many bleeding hart groups out there that think we dont have the right to take someones life.
But lets face it, there really are some f#&*ed up people out there. And we dont nor should we have to feed and house these "Human beings" That kill,rape, child molest.
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Jun 4, 2003, 11:23 AM
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gargouille
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Jun 4, 2003, 12:42 PM
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#4 |
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HardwareHeaven News Mod
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i am also with it.over here in the uk we have got around 27 inmates that will never be released from prison regardless of age due the severity of tere crimes which us tax payers are keeping alive at our expence.
these are peaple who should be dead along as they have been proven beyond reasonable doubt. |
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Jun 4, 2003, 12:44 PM
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#5 |
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Old Codger
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Capital Punishment
Considering of course, the recent events within the last several years of numerous deathy penalty convictions overturned because of DNA evidence or procedural errors, or even confessions of other criminals on death row, there exist severe flaws in our criminal justice system, to the extent that I must disagree with current policy of captial punishment. Not because I disagree with Capital Punishment, some crimes deserve the highest price, if not to prosecute a crime, but to bring closure to the victems. My argument is that there is a color line. If your white, middle class, or wealthy, your chances of recieving a lightened sentence are greater than non whites. Non whites on death row far outnumber white prisoners. Is this due to racism, I think so, since a disproportionet number of overturned convictions are non whites as well. It is still difficult for a non white, poor, indigent male to recieve a life sentence for a capital crime in the United States. Our prisons are full on non whites that were convicted more harshly than whites, it is an indisputible fact and it hasn't been lost on liberals or conservatives. Much of a states budget here in America goes to funding the Penal Institutions, and even the privately run facilities require tremendous resources to remain running, therefore our prisons are overcrowed now. Unless a prisoner is executed, or released or paroled, his chances of getting a sexually transmitted disease is extremely high due to sexual assualts by fellow inmates and the spector of AIDS has emerged as well.
In short, if you have the money, your more likely to recieve adequate legal council, and be aquited, or recieve a reduced sentence. Habitual criminals are a prime example.. Some countrys have completely abolished the death sentence altogether, but it runs to extremes. In Saudi Arabia, China, Russia, and Southwest Asian countrys, justice is meted out on a street corner with a small caliber bullet to the brain.
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Jun 4, 2003, 04:19 PM
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#6 |
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E Pluribus Unum
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I'm with Jeff. I do not oppose death as an appropriate penalty. It is a fitting, I think, for some people to be put to death for their acts. However, that said, the implementation of the death penalty is flawed. Inasmuch as one of our system's central pillars is the belief that it is better to let a guilty man go than to send an innocent man to jail, I find it impossible to support an irrevocable penalty that sometimes can and will be handed out erroneously.
I am a reluctant opposer of the death penalty. |
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Jun 4, 2003, 04:33 PM
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#7 |
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BSD SMASH!
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I'm all for capital punishment. It's a shame are justice system is really awful, because otherwise it might actually work the way it's supposed to.
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Jun 4, 2003, 05:39 PM
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#8 |
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Banned
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Well maybe you should all consider emigrating to Saudi Arabia or someplace similar...live accrding to sharia laws.You`ll get what you want there.
An eye for an eye. Medieval and good...Whatsmore....it works....People die. Below is a list of all fine nations that still use death penalty as punishment and think that it is a good an working method. The list speaks for itself. Maybe i should start writing to my politicians asking them to consider death punishment...... I mean.... all of these countries are lights shining in the dark.....when it comes to ....well actually..i dont know........................... AFGHANISTAN ALGERIA ANTIGUA AND BARBUDA ARMENIA BAHAMAS BAHRAIN BANGLADESH BARBADOS BELARUS BELIZE BENIN BOTSWANA BURUNDI CAMEROON CHAD CHINA COMOROS CONGO (Democratic Republic) CUBA DOMINICA EGYPT EQUATORIAL GUINEA ERITREA ETHIOPIA GABON GHANA GUATEMALA GUINEA GUYANA INDIA INDONESIA IRAN IRAQ JAMAICA JAPAN JORDAN KAZAKSTAN KENYA KOREA (North) KOREA (South) KUWAIT KYRGYZSTAN LAOS LEBANON LESOTHO LIBERIA LIBYA MALAWI MALAYSIA MAURITANIA MONGOLIA MOROCCO MYANMAR NIGERIA OMAN PAKISTAN PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY PHILIPPINES QATAR RWANDA SAINT CHRISTOPHER & NEVIS SAINT LUCIA SAINT VINCENT & GRENADINES SAUDI ARABIA SIERRA LEONE SINGAPORE SOMALIA SUDAN SWAZILAND SYRIA TAIWAN TAJIKISTAN TANZANIA THAILAND TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO TUNISIA UGANDA UNITED ARAB EMIRATES UNITED STATES OF AMERICA UZBEKISTAN VIET NAM YEMEN ZAMBIA ZIMBABWE Have a good day. Bluelight Last edited by bluelight; Jun 4, 2003 at 09:41 PM. |
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Jun 4, 2003, 06:41 PM
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#9 |
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E Pluribus Unum
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Well, not all our states have a death penalty, so whether or not we really belong on that list is debatable. At any rate, while you may disagree with the punishment, it's hard to take seriously the claim that American justice is just like, say, Libyan or Saudi Arabian justice.
Anyway, short hiatus -- nice to see you back! |
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Jun 4, 2003, 07:31 PM
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#10 |
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Banned
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Well with a topic like that....
I think i will start a topic now about muslim justice ...and what we can do to ecucate the savages to become modern and enlightened.............and abandon their ..justice and learn from us.... Bluelight |
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Jun 4, 2003, 07:45 PM
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#11 |
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DriverHeaven Extreme Member
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bluelight
hope that last post was sarcastic. savages?
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Jun 4, 2003, 08:27 PM
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#12 |
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HH's #1 Hustla and Pimp
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i live in canada and they dont have the death penalty. i would say this should introduce it because theres so much fucked up people down here. Just a few weeks ago, here in toronto some girl got sliced up and shit scattered around the lake. The poor girl was only 10, molest and rape seemed like it was involved cops are still looking for the faggot. Another, our RCMP (royal canadian mountie police) will not investigate this young lady's murder in india. she was in a relationship with a poor guy and she had money. her mother didnt want it so she got a hitman to kill both of them but the guy survived and the boyfriend survived. RCMP are being pussies and not looking into it when it says in their agreement thing they will investigate plots or murders of canadian citizens in other countries. that girls mom and uncle who helped out should be fucking given the death penalty. some people should die...
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Jun 4, 2003, 09:08 PM
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#13 |
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DriverHeaven Extreme Member
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yes. some people should die. no desicion making process is going to be perfect, but it needs to be as close as is poosible within current constraints.
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Jun 4, 2003, 09:25 PM
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#14 | |
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Please answer the voices in my head
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Sweden
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Quote:
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Jun 4, 2003, 09:38 PM
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#15 | |
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Banned
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Quote:
What do you mean? Which people should die? And can you explain why the list of nations curently using death penalty....lacks practically all more devleoped countries?? Why is that do you think?? Bluelight |
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Jun 4, 2003, 09:46 PM
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#16 | |
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Banned
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Re: bluelight
Quote:
No it is the common way for very many people to look upon muslims. They usually refer to them as savages because they use Sharia laws which stipulates....an eye for an eye. Sharia laws also includes the punisment of death. The funny thing is that many of these peole are in favour of exactly the same system...at home...... Which makes me wonder.... Why they adress muslims as savages,why they criticise the mulims jurudical system..which i its essence..is not very different from system in the west world that uses death penalty...(Usa...Japan..) Bluelight |
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Jun 4, 2003, 11:15 PM
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Thread Starter
#17
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Everyones life has worth
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I would never refer to the middle east as savages. I don't believe in an eye for an eye, I believe in someone earning the death penalty. If someone is starving uncontrollably and steals a loaf of bread, he should not have his hands cut off. Now if he scams money off of old/mentally challenged and uneducated people, then he should be punished to a pretty high punishment.
And yes the system as flawed, nothing is perfect. But every aspect of everything is flawed. I support the death penalty because some people deserve it, I shun it when juries make the wrong decision. "The Green Mile" is an excellent example of this. Great movie as well. |
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Jun 5, 2003, 03:07 AM
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#18 |
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Old Codger
Join Date: Sep 2002
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The death penalty for some
If your rich, your white and you are connected, you most certainly will avoid the chair, the noose or the lethal injection, my position is that the judicial system is inherently flawed, but it is all we have...But judging from the number of over turned death penalties, it seems certain that for the past 200 or so years, hundreds of thousands of innocent men were sentenced to death for crimes they didn't commit. I cannot in good concious take a human life anymore, nor can I imagine doing so to meet the needs of the state, however, if the law exists and people accept it and embrace it regardless of the consequences, then society at large, and this is pure cynacism of course, will live or die by these laws
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"Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."
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Jun 5, 2003, 03:28 AM
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#19 | |
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E Pluribus Unum
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Quote:
I do not believe that death is an inappropriate punishment. Can you imagine having to pay taxes to support the life of the man who killed your mother? My problem with the death penalty is pretty straightforward, Most of you know that I am pretty old-fashioned in my views, and I put a very high value on traditional American principles and values. In America we are supposed (and I'm not saying that we always do -- I am saying that we should) to be concerned more with protecting the innocent than we are punishing the guilty. If you put an innocent man in jail, he can always be freed. But you cannot bring back to life the man you executed by mistake, and THAT is a problem. |
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Jun 5, 2003, 04:24 AM
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#20 |
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Old Codger
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Mega dittos....
RUSH LIMBAUGH used it first....I agree Javafox
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"Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."
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Jun 5, 2003, 05:44 AM
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#21 |
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DriverHeaven Extreme Member
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bluelight
short vacation!?
thanks for clearing that up. though i think you are missing something- countries like the usa have an extensive judicial/apellate system. some of those countries are same day execution. with a wide range in between. i personally think our system is too cumbersome while some countries have no sytem. you have to differentiate. this is the biggest problem i have with some of you posts. you see eveything as black & white, good & bad. for whatever reasons you do not seem to realise that most of the world is in the middle. there are truly evil people in this world. people whose sole function is to hurt, maim, & deprive other people of their basic human rights. why should people like this be allowed to inflict their twisted selves on humanity & the lesser criminals they are incarcerated with? at those same peoples expense. maintaining high security prisons is extremeley expensive. you can say what does the cost matter when it comes to a human life. i say there are actions that deny you the privilige of living. unless your peers are willing to financialy support you & are willing to let you continue whatever heinous acts you commited in prison, then your life is forfeit. most people do not get this, but there are people out there who are willing to do a crime & take a chance at incarceration only. talk about their life & limb and it is a different matter(i actually like some of the arabic nations punisnments. but they have your problem no gay areas or comprimise). then you get to the people were punishment is totally meaningless. what is the awnser here? as long as humanity is running this planet there will be no perfect systems of ruling & law. we do the best we can & hopefully learn from our mistakes. |
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Jun 5, 2003, 05:49 AM
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#22 |
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DriverHeaven Extreme Member
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jeff
100's of thousands? cough cough. where is that abacus!
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Jun 5, 2003, 05:51 AM
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#23 |
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E Pluribus Unum
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Pretty reasonable, mike, but what say you to our (Jeff and I) concerns? I do think it is more important to protect the liberty and rights of the innocent than it is to punish or incarcerate the guilty. Some innocent people will be put to death; is that a justifyable evil to you?
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Jun 5, 2003, 05:56 AM
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#24 |
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Old Codger
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Used my fingers!!
I watched a PBS special on television some time ago, the issue was again the history of capital punishment it is estimated that countless non whites and uneducated convicts were sentenced to death or executed based on the lack of adequate council, impressed labor, etc. government experiments, etc.
The official totals for adults recorded in territorys and states is 15238 adults, executed But this number does not include non whites, juveniles and women!!!! or prisoners of war. It does not include vigilante action whether it was sanctioned or not. some people were persecuted by the local authorities simply for being morman, hebrew or chinese and the were summarily tried, sentenced and hanged by legal authority.. In the south it was not unusual for non whites to recieve sentences that were imposed to muster work crews for the highways and swamps that needed clearing, stealing a chicken could land you a life sentence or death...no bullshit..and this was all less than a hundred years ago. And executions of incompetent people occured often, as well as lobotomys...mentally handicapped men and women were euthanized, imprisoned, executed and exploited, all less than a hundred years ago...and never recorded in the offical records... it is a sad tale.. entire indian tribes in california, rounded up and shot by local authorities less than 120 years ago...
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"Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."
Last edited by fallang_jeff; Jun 5, 2003 at 06:10 AM. |
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Jun 5, 2003, 06:12 AM
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#25 |
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DriverHeaven Extreme Member
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java & jeff
very tough choice. the good thing is, a lot of the overturns & what not actually show that our sytem is trying to reduce that very serious problem. it is evolving. unlike some other legal systems. we just have to be careful about going to far in protecting the innocent. do not get me wrong, i beleive the rights of the individual are paramount. but the rights of the society are a close second. unfortunatley it is very hard to balance both. right now criminals have more rights in this country than victims do. that is wrong. sorry i can not give you a straight awnser. i want both, but do not think it is feasible given the worlds level of humanity/cultural maturity & technology. though the last one is changing fast.
 just 4 jeff you are right about all the injustices. you just need to relearn how to speed count on your fingers.(& toes, yeh, i knew you cheated!) not that it is justifying anything but the same issues are/have been happening worldwide. we are more open about our 'problems' and more open about dealing with them. & we are dealing with them. unlike a lot of other countries we are constantly trying to correct injustices & various forms of bigotry. the biggest problem i see(aside from, but related to) is the amount of wealth in this country & what that wealth can buy/get you out of. so we agree on that. with one caveat- abuse of wealth is not gender or race/religion limited. do not think you said it was, just wanted to be clear.
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Last edited by mike2h; Jun 5, 2003 at 06:28 AM. |
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Jun 5, 2003, 06:33 AM
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#26 |
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Old Codger
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If we seperate
ourselves from the issues, capital punishment and closure or justice for victems, it might seem simple, life imprisonment or death based on a scale of offenses versus benefits from execution versus restitution..I think it would be simple or even clever to determine the severity of punishment based the severity of the crime...age of criminal, type of criminal act...we can quantify and qualify our actions based on a formula or point scale....but it really all boils down to what the people say, what do the people want....justice might be unfair by our standards but satisfy the people....ironic isn't it....
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"Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."
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Jun 5, 2003, 04:18 PM
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#27 |
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Banned
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All you people that think deathpenalty is ok, do you accept that innocent people will be executed??
Because you know that innocent will and are being killed in the name of justice,right? Thats my question to you , do you accept innocent people being killed in the name of justice?? PLZ answer all of you above that stated that you want the deathpenalty. |
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Jun 5, 2003, 05:21 PM
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#28 |
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Banned
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A guitar ghost from the seventies has entered the building........Sammy Hagar.....Nevcer thought id meet him here ;-)
Bluelight |
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Jun 5, 2003, 05:40 PM
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#29 |
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E Pluribus Unum
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Too bad he didn't get to be President, I guess.
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Jun 5, 2003, 06:46 PM
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#30 |
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BSD SMASH!
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If everyone is worried about protecting the innocents, what would you rather do to punish people? If I was innocent, I'd rather be shot than have to sit in jail for 20 years for a crime I haven't done. Anyway, if you think capital punishment is bad because innocents could get killed, then you're obviously overlooking the fact that the judicial system messed up in those situations. I think it is unfair to argue against capital punishment like that, since it actually a problem with something else, not capital punishment. The judicial system is the real problem.
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