Rumfeld responds to Begium lawsuits

Falstaff · Jun 15, 2003, 02:22 AM

It seems that pressure from the United States and NATO isn't going to sway the efforts by Belgium to pursue legal action against key members of both Bush administrations involved in both Gulf Wars.
Donald Rumsfeld is applying pressure on NATO to apply pressure on Belgium but he is intent on relocating NATO bases to friendlier countrys. The U.S. is paying 1/4 of all the costs of maintaining bases in Europe which amounts to 162 million dollars annually I assume, and base relocation could be terribly costly.
This isn't a matter of abandoning Hadrians Wall, the presence of NATO and most importantly the U.S. has been a mainstay of the local economy within the vicinity of these bases and the vacumn will have to be filled, and new strategies will have to be devised to counter possible threats from internal and external enemies.

JavaFox · Jun 15, 2003, 02:32 AM

If countries are going to say they are friends yet publicly criticize us (good friends do this sort of thing in private) and act in ways that run contrary to our interests, then perhaps they could do with less of our military presence.

That said, though, I think NATO is an important organization (far more important than the UN), and relationships with fellow NATO members should be strengthened and repaired to the greatest extent possible.

Falstaff · Jun 15, 2003, 02:36 AM

but this could cause a cascade abandonment of the NATO cooperative presence altogether, the french also have plans to create their own form of NATO..and wish to enhance their international presence in the wake of the Gulf War embarrasement..

JavaFox · Jun 15, 2003, 02:45 AM

You know, initially I didn't understand why the US refused to get onboard with the International Criminal Court. At first I actually thought it was a worthwhile endeavor. But I now realize that it is little more than a vehicle with which to hassle American troops and commanders and as such I am glad that we play no part in it.

Falstaff · Jun 15, 2003, 03:29 AM

it may have become an instrument for obstructionists

~~bluelight~~ · Jul 8, 2003, 08:31 PM

I was going to post my image of MR DON visiting THE GREEN GUY.........

Unfortunatly for the general level of education....... ;-)

I lost the link

Bluey

digerati · Jul 8, 2003, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bluelight
I was going to post my image of MR DON visiting THE GREEN GUY.........

Unfortunatly for the general level of education....... ;-)

I lost the link

Bluey

Good to see you back.

Falstaff · Jul 9, 2003, 04:03 AM

did you get your computer fix or take the plunge and get a new one? Probably a lightening storm right?

~~bluelight~~ · Jul 9, 2003, 07:57 AM

Hi guys.Yep lightning storm.....it broke most of my internet machine.Right now i have carried my "music computer" from the "studio" just to see whats happening out there.

Be back fulltime in another 6 weeks or so.

Take care all.

Bluey

Falstaff · Jul 9, 2003, 12:42 PM

I don't think we have seen the true nature of the man that has been through so many administrations....

radTube · Jul 9, 2003, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JavaFox
You know, initially I didn't understand why the US refused to get onboard with the International Criminal Court. At first I actually thought it was a worthwhile endeavor. But I now realize that it is little more than a vehicle with which to hassle American troops and commanders and as such I am glad that we play no part in it.

You know, Clinton actually signed the Rome treaty back in 2000, but Bush 'unsigned' it. Guess he couldn't bear the idea of americans having to answer for their crimes abroad... Here's a link with some facts: http://www.usaforicc.org/facts_america-icc.html. (In case you're left wondering, yes I do know that the site is probably not objective, but show me one that is.)

A quick translation: "It's great that criminals get caught, as long as we can do what we want." Or "Let's work towards world peace, as long as it's convenient for us." Typical spoiled brat behaviour.

Damn I'm tired... but gotta work

EDIT: Shouldn't post when I'm working... Got code in my mind...

JavaFox · Jul 10, 2003, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by radTube
You know, Clinton actually signed the Rome treaty back in 2000, but Bush 'unsigned' it. Guess he couldn't bear the idea of americans having to answer for their crimes abroad... Here's a link with some facts: http://www.usaforicc.org/facts_america-icc.html. (In case you're left wondering, yes I do know that the site is probably not objective, but show me one that is.)

A quick translation: "It's great that criminals get caught, as long as we can do what we want." Or "Let's work towards world peace, as long as it's convenient for us." Typical spoiled brat behaviour.

Clinton signed that treaty, yes, and he also signed the Kyoto Protocol. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with American politics, because the president's signature in and of itself means nothing. Our Congress has to approve of any treaty the president want to adopt, and, in the case of the Kyoto, not one single Senator voted to adopt it. Clinton signing anything only means that Clinton supported the idea, not that the US supported it.

The reason we do not support the ICC is simple: we don't want it to be used as a aparatus for politically motivated demagogues to harass our leaders and troops. Look at what the ICC has done so far, and tell me that hasn't happened already.

Falstaff · Jul 10, 2003, 09:17 AM

Clinton signed a number of things that were meaningless. I am certain a Clinton bashing thread would perpetuate itself for a long time based on his inconsistencies and falsehoods. Rumsfeld however is not without his critics even in the republican house, and thie whole CIA, crappy info scandal was anticipated I am sure, since even Nixon knew about the forged info about IRAQ, why it continued to remain a topic of debate is a mystery to me.......I am old enough to remember Nixon....

Esaz666 · Aug 24, 2003, 12:12 PM

Everyone knew that this Iraq war was going to cause problems within Nato. Most people were totally against this action. We in britain are going through a trial by media for the British Government, I knew it was all a big con, I didnt fall for the BS. Now the world is a different place after this war. People know when something is wrong or right. I just think it was a bad idea full stop and it has whipped up a lot of anti western feelings. We are the lossers in this war, I was going to travel to Egypt to meet my friend But i think it is too dangerous at the moment. Maybe things will improve with time, The U.S global Foreign policies used to be more covert , I think that was a better policy . There is a lot of bad feeling about in the world, Something needs to happen to calm things down.

mike2h · Aug 28, 2003, 08:28 AM

rest of your post aside, egypt was a dangerous place t otravel before gw2. as was most of the mid east. granted things are worse now, but i beleive things were headed that way regardless of gw2. i also beleive more action is being taken by these countries than if gw2 had never happened,

FuNsTeR · Aug 31, 2003, 08:49 PM

what i wanna know is why does America think we want to be under their influence

... no offence to the Americains on this board but i think Bush is only making things worse with relations between the European union and America ... hell and i wish blair would stop wagging his tail and have some back bone instead of his constant spin and being Bush's obedient poodle ... rant over

Jun 15, 2003, 02:22 AM	#1
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	Rumfeld responds to Begium lawsuits It seems that pressure from the United States and NATO isn't going to sway the efforts by Belgium to pursue legal action against key members of both Bush administrations involved in both Gulf Wars. Donald Rumsfeld is applying pressure on NATO to apply pressure on Belgium but he is intent on relocating NATO bases to friendlier countrys. The U.S. is paying 1/4 of all the costs of maintaining bases in Europe which amounts to 162 million dollars annually I assume, and base relocation could be terribly costly. This isn't a matter of abandoning Hadrians Wall, the presence of NATO and most importantly the U.S. has been a mainstay of the local economy within the vicinity of these bases and the vacumn will have to be filled, and new strategies will have to be devised to counter possible threats from internal and external enemies. __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Jun 15, 2003, 02:36 AM	Thread Starter #3
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	I agree but this could cause a cascade abandonment of the NATO cooperative presence altogether, the french also have plans to create their own form of NATO..and wish to enhance their international presence in the wake of the Gulf War embarrasement.. __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Jun 15, 2003, 03:29 AM	Thread Starter #5
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	Indeed it may have become an instrument for obstructionists __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Jul 9, 2003, 04:03 AM	Thread Starter #8
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	Yeh blue did you get your computer fix or take the plunge and get a new one? Probably a lightening storm right? __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Jul 9, 2003, 12:42 PM	Thread Starter #10
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	Rumsfeld has enormous power I don't think we have seen the true nature of the man that has been through so many administrations.... __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Jun 15, 2003, 02:32 AM	#2
JavaFox E Pluribus Unum Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 3,203 Rep Power: 0	If countries are going to say they are friends yet publicly criticize us (good friends do this sort of thing in private) and act in ways that run contrary to our interests, then perhaps they could do with less of our military presence. That said, though, I think NATO is an important organization (far more important than the UN), and relationships with fellow NATO members should be strengthened and repaired to the greatest extent possible.

Jun 15, 2003, 02:45 AM	#4
JavaFox E Pluribus Unum Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 3,203 Rep Power: 0	You know, initially I didn't understand why the US refused to get onboard with the International Criminal Court. At first I actually thought it was a worthwhile endeavor. But I now realize that it is little more than a vehicle with which to hassle American troops and commanders and as such I am glad that we play no part in it.

Jul 8, 2003, 08:31 PM	#6
~~bluelight~~ Banned Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,328 Rep Power: 0	I was going to post my image of MR DON visiting THE GREEN GUY......... Unfortunatly for the general level of education....... ;-) I lost the link Bluey

Jul 9, 2003, 07:57 AM	#9
~~bluelight~~ Banned Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,328 Rep Power: 0	Hi guys.Yep lightning storm.....it broke most of my internet machine.Right now i have carried my "music computer" from the "studio" just to see whats happening out there. Be back fulltime in another 6 weeks or so. Take care all. Bluey

Jul 10, 2003, 09:17 AM	Thread Starter #13
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	ah yessssss... Clinton signed a number of things that were meaningless. I am certain a Clinton bashing thread would perpetuate itself for a long time based on his inconsistencies and falsehoods. Rumsfeld however is not without his critics even in the republican house, and thie whole CIA, crappy info scandal was anticipated I am sure, since even Nixon knew about the forged info about IRAQ, why it continued to remain a topic of debate is a mystery to me.......I am old enough to remember Nixon.... __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Aug 24, 2003, 12:12 PM	#14
Esaz666 BeardHeaven Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Uk,Earth,Universe,3rd dimention Posts: 298 Rep Power: 59	Everyone knew that this Iraq war was going to cause problems within Nato. Most people were totally against this action. We in britain are going through a trial by media for the British Government, I knew it was all a big con, I didnt fall for the BS. Now the world is a different place after this war. People know when something is wrong or right. I just think it was a bad idea full stop and it has whipped up a lot of anti western feelings. We are the lossers in this war, I was going to travel to Egypt to meet my friend But i think it is too dangerous at the moment. Maybe things will improve with time, The U.S global Foreign policies used to be more covert , I think that was a better policy . There is a lot of bad feeling about in the world, Something needs to happen to calm things down.

Aug 28, 2003, 08:28 AM	#15
mike2h DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: norcal Posts: 6,483 Rep Power: 91 System Specs	Esaz666 rest of your post aside, egypt was a dangerous place t otravel before gw2. as was most of the mid east. granted things are worse now, but i beleive things were headed that way regardless of gw2. i also beleive more action is being taken by these countries than if gw2 had never happened, __________________

Aug 31, 2003, 08:49 PM	#16
FuNsTeR Caledonian and Proud Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Darkest Ayrshire Posts: 1,305 Rep Power: 88 System Specs	what i wanna know is why does America think we want to be under their influence ... no offence to the Americains on this board but i think Bush is only making things worse with relations between the European union and America ... hell and i wish blair would stop wagging his tail and have some back bone instead of his constant spin and being Bush's obedient poodle ... rant over __________________ "They say when you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear satanic messages ..... but that's nothing, if you play it forward it will install Windows"