JavaFox

In response to a WSJ report that the US was considering withdrawing 75% of its military presence (this is an unconfirmed number) from Germany, 13 German mayors (from various cities that host US military bases) travelled to Washington to plead with the US government to stay. Some mayors even testified before various Pentagon officials, the State Department and Congress that "Germany is a safe and pleasant home for U.S. troops." By and large it is due to economic concerns that they want the US to stay (US troops spend LOTS of money in the surrounding areas, Germans get jobs on base, etc.)

Sorry, guys. Restructuring has begun, and we are tired of Old Europe's fence-straddling. Either back up your friends or do without them.

Falstaff

of Globilization and becoming part of the EU....They just don't need us afterall..

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JavaFox

Jeff, that's fine by me. Democracies, by and large, do not fight each other, and I for one would be delighted if the EU could play a military role like we can. But, then, I can't help but recall an article in The Economist I read some time ago. America is a young land with high levels of immigration, high levels of fertility, and high levels of youth. Europe on the other hand has had a declining birth rate and, like Japan, is getting older and older. This is no condemnation, but in Europe, where robust social security programs exist, they may find it difficult in the future to sustain both their aged population AND a credible military.

Falstaff

But it might change the political climate of Europe in such a way that disaster may strike from within, a growing unrest within the rising youth that must pay for the programs of those who retire and leave the monuments and institutions in their legacy...

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GOG

Maybe if your government spent a little less on guns, you could also have robust social security programs? What's the use with a large army when it only defends a segregated, unfair society? Why can't you see the insanity in that?

digerati

I don't know what your bitchin about. I'm a mexican in that segregated country your talkin about and that country that spends everything on military somehow saved a penny to give me free health and dental care, and I get to choose my own doctor who I've had ever since I moved back to America from Mexico.

Falstaff

Kudo's to ~_~, I have to agree, robust social security programs are very contentious due to the amount of abuse a full 1/5 of the budget for social security goes towards tracking down fraud and overpayments to inelgible people, it warms my heart to hear someone say thankyou for the tax dollars I donate every paycheck so unfortunate people can get a chance. And by the way GOG just where the heck have you been...I missed you......lmao rootf.....ha ha.. "_" you got some cahones......go for it....

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JavaFox

Social security is our largest program, GOG -- it constitutes about 25% of our $2.2 trillion budget. The second and third largest programs are Medicare and Medicaid. These three programs make up 48% of our budget. We spend far more on social programs than we do defense.

The point of my post was to say that Europe is going to have a lot less workers supporting its ageing population. And that could be a problem for them in the future, if defense is any concern. In the same sense as your question, what good are robust social programs if your population is unsafe? The US may not always be interesting in defending Europe to the extent that it has, especially if Europe is going to be unable or unwilling to foot at least some of the bill. It is something to think about.

I realize that the US and Europe are different. Their programs respond to different needs stemming from different attitudes. I don't believe in expansive social welfare programs for America, but I see that they may be appropriate for Europe and that's why I called Europe's social security problems "robust" instead of "stupid." We are culturally different places --and I realize that-- and inasmuch as Europe, by and large, is portrayed as a culturally enlightened place, it would behoove you to do us in the US the same courtesy. Just because it works for you doesn't mean it'll work for us.

Falstaff

Welfare programs and support for those that cannot work to pay for medical bills, medicine, rent, and housing could nearly drain our economy. America was never really prepared to support anyone that asked for help until successive numbers of presidents decided to enact programs that brought us closer and closer to the programs we have today. The democrats would inflate those programs to the size of a very large bubble that would ultimately pop and implode. It has been the responsibility of republicans here in American to be the check valve on these programs to further limit the drain on our economy, but everyone here regardless of whether they claim their taxes or not contributes to our welfare system. In some small way every penny that doesn't go back into funding the government goes towards various aspects of our flawed and overburdened social security administration...It is almost a criminal racket...
I won't get up on my soapbox, but I think the systems you speak of in Europe are just as corrupt as in the United States. Eligible applicants have to wait while welfare thieves steal and exploit the welfare system.
And you know who perpetuates this? The democrats......
In Europe the bearocracy is so refine it is easier to hide the mistakes, the overpayments and the excess that must surely exist there as well.
I AM FIRMLY AGAINST THIS CULTURE OF WHINERS THAT COLLECT SOCIAL SECURITY THAT ARE ELIGIBLE TO WORK AND PAY BACK WHAT THEY STEAL FROM THE GOVERNMENT..and they are not all oppressed minorities either..but that is our society and our problem.
I am sure in Sweden, you see people living off of drugs and collecting money because they cant work, walking to the Methadone clinic while the mothers of their children must scrape by to survive...
If NATO pulls out of Belgium their economy would take a serious hit, if Belgium seriously pursues these charges and indictments, there will be political hell to pay...
I don't think even the Swedish King would make such a foolish decision and niether would the parliment..

We have downsided quite a bit in Germany, but they won't let us go, without a political struggle, and we will shove the whole thing Schroeder's and Strucks Rectum

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GOG

You do NOT have free medical or dental care in the US.

JavaFox

It isn't free, you DO pay for it.

In America, we instead have upward mobility. Again, GOG, I know you think your way is better and I think that culturally speaking, it may be better -- for you and your people. I accept that. I don't call Sweden's ways "stupid," I know that lawmakers in different places have to respond to different needs and different beliefs.

In America, ask any given group of people "are you upper class?" and a lot of them will say that they think they're probably more well off than others, even if it isn't true. Ask the same group of people "do you expect to be upper class one day?" and almost every single one will say yes. In America, we consider upward mobility to be very important, just like in much of Europe, taking care of society is an important value.

It is a cultural difference -- and it's not stupid, just different.

digerati

Okay so I don't work, my mom goes from job to job (sometimes getting paid under the table) and I don't get my twice a year dental check and cleaning, and my yearly shots (or whatever else is needed) for free. It must be an optical illusion. Those damn American government spies are controlling what I see and feel WHAHhahahaAAAAAAaaaAAAATHeeeeePaaiiiiiNNNN

EDIT
Thanks jeff I forgot that. The taxpayers end up paying for my health and dental care. Not saying I wouldn't mind paying, but I don't exactly have many oppurtunities right now. So that, people like me, who have 4 living inside a one bedroom apartment, can have clean teeth and a healthy body. So GOG, unless you're telling me that what I get isn't true, I'm going to have to call you a liar.

Falstaff

I think the point is SOMEONE has to pay....the american people of course, you know, social programs and such.

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