Judas

So since the mass explosion of emails, data, and various other information related to "Global Warming" and the clear violations that these "Officials" have been commiting, not limited to but including everything under the sun in terms of being completely NOT SCIENTIFIC at all, the clear conspiracy FACT that they were fudging numbers, working the tables, only reporting what would further their interest and ignoring, fireing, blacklisting anything and anyone that provided a great wealth of evidence to suggest otherwise, or the fact that the entire "Theory" of global warming is 100% lie, zero truth to it.

Funny how Al Gores load of shit called the Invonvenient Truth (AKA LIE) was force fed to thousands of schools and continues to be fed.

Al Gore's ties to Enron, the cap and trade load of crap that does nothing to actually solve any claimed global warming propaganda, just taxes the hell out of normal people with very little Co2 footprint yet lets the big bastard companies that are spitting out a million fold more to just do a bunch of swapping around to avoid it all, and where does the taxation on this go, nowhere but a few peoples pockets.

Co2, has zero impact on the warming, ZERO, proven repeatedly by thousands of real scientists that are able to actually walk through the scientific steps rather then remain blind to all the evidence like the idiots claiming it excists.

Now they had to change it to "climate change" which is just a rediculious name to try and cover over the general population to make it sound more agreeable, as everyone is seeing "change" from one year to another, but it's still global warming being pushed underneath.

So now that we've got actual proof positive, with some of the writers of such emails STATING in person, on record, that they indeed write those emails and make those statements, anyone else there still think the insignificant human excistance on this planet has any bearing at all worth really noting compared to the sun?

Specially considering the fact that there is a decline in temperature over the last few years. And that other factors are at work beyond most peoples orginal theories. One of which is magnetic pole shifts occuring at a more rapid rate causing points on the earth to experience more contact with the solar radiation. Anyone else realize that we've got "magnetic north" showing up more prominantly in the southern hemisphere then orginally thought.

Frankly i think Al Gores nobel and other significant "awards" should be stripped away and frankly, thown in jail for purposely fudging numbers for his own benifit.

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IvanV

Is this about the e-mails that recently got published?

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Judas

started due to the email issues.

but mostly just a build up of things that have been occuring for the last 10+ years.....

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SeraphicSorcerer

Well personally I think scientist's don't have enough data for or against Climate change, I mean it's possible to change the climate on earth with something as simple as a really violent Volcano. I just don't think we have the technology to actually know.

Personally from what I've studied, Co2 DOES actually "warm" the atmosphere, but it also is one of those gasses that is seriously unevenly distributed.

Also right now, we have the sun, which is in a very inactive period, and let's face it, the sun itself is the only reason we even have a climate, weather, warmth, etc. and we're having cooler winters/summers this year, and weird weather patterns (and the sun isn't as active)

So... Anyhow it really doesn't matter until someone has conclusive proof either way, period. I'm a firm believer just because "a lot more" people believe it doesn't mean it's true.

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Judas

Actually that's one study where scientists have for a fact disproved about Co2,

Warming always leads Co2 levels, an increase in Co2 even manmade or through other forms has never produced an increase in warmth, warmth has always produced an increase in Co2.

Even "climate change/global warming" scientists data state this, they just following Al Gores idiocy, swapped the graphs around stating that Co2 is the leader. FALSE, in ALL dataset, there is zero proof of any such manner in which anything on this planet has had an impact producing mass amounts of Co2 which has produced any form of warming at all.

The whole concept of "cap n trade" or taxing co2 produced by anyone is utterly rediculious. Specially knowing that the people that want to impose such taxations on us are the ones with some of the largest footprints around, al gore my be driving a hybrid vehicle, but his damn jet isn't.

Now yes, Climate change is inevitable, the fact that we've had mini ice ages and excessively warm period in places that shouldn't have it dating back in several cycles over the course of millions of years, we haven't even began to hit a warm period yet, actually all the evidence points to a slide in temperatures, their states increase in the past decade and a half has been actually completely reversed and then some.

Solar cycles make a huge impact, lack of Solar flares which do have a considerable impact on the temperature have been nill for nearly a year and a half, which is abnormal, greatly affecting weather, factor in various other Magnetic pole changes and multiple pole issues that can seriously affect the amount of energy being absorbed in places we aren't normally familare with. You have a few seconds of sun radiation and light absorbed in a single area due to a magnetic pole issue, and anything we do, even with dozens of nucular warheads wouldn't remotely compare.

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Zelig

I wish Nate Silver did more stuff non-related to US elections.

Hit up the link for the rest of it.

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Judas

funny how nasa is conflicted with itself.....

the ICCP itself won't let scientists present their findings and using their own "raw" data (what is actually left considering that in a number of instances in which is included in those emails it's clearly stated that they would rather delete the data then let the public see it).

Al gore constantly states that there is a census on the matter of global warming... which is completely not the case at all.

there is more business riding on the infactual data stating that global warming excists then otherwise, which of course rather then working in a scientific manner, they work on a corporate/business ideal which basically ignores or denies anything that can rattle its foundations.

it's already been sadly stated that countless studies have been put forward for funding and low and behold, we've provided it pushes the dogma called global warming getting funding quite easily and others however not, so much as use the words "cooling" and they throw it out.

Evidence is stacking up, global warming how no legs to stand on.

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OldBuzzard

You need to remember. It's not whether or not Global Warming or Global Cooling is happening.

The real question is if MAN is having any effect.

The charlatans at HadleyCRU did everything possible to provide 'proof' that man is indeed responsible. They did this by deliberately 'massaging' the raw data (which they now say they disposed of during a move to a new location) so that it would give the result that they wanted.

They even went so far as to 'peer review' each other giving the impression that what they were telling us was correct.

So now, even IF Man made Global Warming is occurring, the 'science' behind that proof is so tainted that it can not possibly be believed.

None of this of course is going to deter the Global Warming Snake Oil Salesmen like Algore, and politicians that see this 'crisis' as a way to exert more power over the populous while at the same time miking said populous of every $$ that they can.

Scum, the lot of them.

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When looking for a reason as to why things go wrong, never rule out sheer STUPIDITY

Judas

well worded old buzzard

i have a hard time simplifying what i'm trying to point out...

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Tyrsonswood

Everybody get's all involved with the blame game on this topic..... Truth, I really don't care if it's "mans" fault or not...... Humans are very good at screwing stuff up so I wouldn't doubt it but that's not my point.

I would like to know how 90% of the worlds population, that's about the number that live at sea level, would evacuate IF the sea level rose suddenly. Gonna make "Katrina" look like a Saturday at the park.......

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OldBuzzard

90% of the world's population lives at SEA LEVEL?????

Where in the heck did you get THAT number? That sounds like something Algore would say, trying to scare you into giving him some money!.

As for 'suddenly'? It ain't gonna happen. Climate change doesn't happen like the "Climate change disaster movies" portray it. 'Sudden Change' in geological terms generally means 1000s of years.

Do you really think that we couldn't cope with a 10 foot gradual rise in sea level over the course of even a 100 years?

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When looking for a reason as to why things go wrong, never rule out sheer STUPIDITY

Tyrsonswood

I did say "IF" you know....... Or did you miss that?


There's no way anybody can know for certain that "It ain't gonna happen" That's just taking one side or the other in the whole "blame game". You nor anybody else knows what the earth is capable of doing.

As for your 100 year scenario..... with what I've seen on this subject so far, there will be 99 years of finger pointing first, then 1 year to do something, like learn how to swim..... oops, to late.

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Judas

There is no denieing that we as a species have and continue to do some seriously STUPID things, but generally it's not the mass population fault in total, it's generally the companies responcible for takeing shortcuts that end up resulting in mass amounts of garbage floating around in the oceans and lakes.

But that's a completely different thing that has ZERO worthwhile bearing on the claimed global warming.

It's irrelivent to the discussion.

Actually the fact is that Major geological changes can happen in a very very short period of time, the Rift that appeared in africa and was recorded (and i can't find the bloody video anywhere for some reason) in which the rift formed in a matter of minutes vs the expected duration of hundreds of years. The scientists/geologists that luckily happened to be there stated that they wouldn't have beleived it if it wasn't for them actually being there to witness it.

Other things can and have occured in the past that they are able to put evidence from formations that state certain things had occured in extremely short periods of times, days even that kinda destroy the accepted templates and written understandings.

But global warming.. climate change as it is right now, we cannot affect in the least bit without some pretty damn significant attempts at doing it.

Our affect Co2 wise irrelevent, Co2 in itself is completely irrelevent. The whole bases of the ICCP, al gores stance and everything so far sits square on Co2 causing global warming and the fact of the matter is, It's a bloody lie, and has ZERO bearing at all.

So what happens when the entire thing they are spouting off about rests on a single peice of information and evidence that ends up being completely false? Either it's propped up by more bullshit, or it finally falls like it should have orginally.

You get enough people "beleiveing" in something that is bullshit, and instead of being based off science, it turns into a faith of sorts.

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SeraphicSorcerer

Well I still think the major issue is Man does have a sustainable impact on the climate, because to me, the environment includes climate, and we do impact environment very much. Nuclear waste, Trash, Littering, Habitat for animals shrinking etc.

Bottom line, I think man does influence the climate as well, But the sun affects it more, see my post.

But the problem with the studies Judas is, we've only RECENTLY gained the technology to track the climate on a GLOBAL scale, and climate change takes YEARS to notice. However, The arctic circle is shrinking, which is to be determined by what cause.

I think as technology improves we will notice if it's just mother earth trying to kill us, or man trying to kill mother earth. We will see. I will agree that both sides have tainted the evidence, but I don't think one scientist is anymore right then the other simply because of one study, you need systemic, and consistent proof in order for it to be no longer a theory.

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dawgXdenta

I'm not sure what this is all about, why would people cover up "climate change" , what are they trying to scare people into Judas?

As far I know mankind is screwing up the global ecology in a big way ,we are in a now in a mass extinction loosing many species every day, I think we have to take care of our environment and our "lesser species".

This topic doesn't make sense to me, its sounds like you are saying mankind is not behind global warming and "they" are trying to scare us, explain please and keep it brief please

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Judas

We have a impact on the wildlife and the enviroment surroundings... but climate change in the way that we may or may not be seeing is utterly rediculious, specially the claim that Co2 is responcible part of it, when in fact is doesn't have any factor into it at all. It's a follow up result, not a leading issue at all.


We have indeed only recently been able to track results, yes there is considerable reduction in of ice in various places, but there is also "obviously not mentioned often" increases in others.

It's the fact of the matter that they have been using anything they can get their hands on, be it photographics, video, whatever, to further fuel their "We humans are causing global warming, and anyone that denies it is a nut/loon/idiot" which is purely false.

Like i stated before, The Co2 base that these guys are using is false, that's what i have a problem with, and being that it's so set in as the common dominator among all the research, that research is all based on a lie.

Now the fear mongering part was best explained by old buzzard, The kyoto accord and now the looming december 9th meeting presents some bullshit solutions that basically further scares people into accepting a taxation on Co2 itself, and to further curb it, but where the money goes doesn't go to actually SOLVING anything, it ends up just lining the big guys pockets including Al Gores which he hasn't really done much at all to really solve the problem.


Shit even recycling solutions are producing far more waist then what is being recycled, the current business methodology put into practice to make these "Green" ideas work is actually counter productive.

Detailed studies that you can't seem to ever find in news papers/tv/media solutions are available and clearly point out the fact of the matters, detailing both sides (pro/cons) where as what we are constantly bombarded with is all just a crapload of unicorns and rainbows, at least that's what they try to make it sound like.


The meer thought of taxing someone own Required for life Air supply and exhaust is a royal joke... and that's what they plan to do with cap n trade and other methods.

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OldBuzzard

If 'global warming' is going to being disaster to civilization, as some would have us believe, why didn't that happen in the Medieval Warm Period (AD 800–1300), when temperatures were so high that the Vikings were colonizing Greenland? And what, pray tell, caused that warming? Not much in the way of man made pollution back then.

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When looking for a reason as to why things go wrong, never rule out sheer STUPIDITY

SeraphicSorcerer

Well you see Vikings had no problem farting, especially after that much beer and meat. Those were the good old days.

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Judas

What about when the fact of the matter more recently when Industrial polutants were at their peak and the revolution was taking shape and proceeding for 40+ years when the temperatures were actually sharply dropping.

Only after various regulations fell into place to curb the "amount" of polutants and the type of, did the temps start increasing marginally.

what about the fact that in the last near decade the temperatures have actually decreased marginally.

I mean shit before even the vikings period.. there was countless warm climate periods that were considerably hotter yet.


Cycles, we haven't been on this planet far as we know to know a single cycle let alone multiple cycles...

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Judas

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dawgXdenta

@Judas and OldBuzz I see your point but I'd have to do my own research about how if at all mankind's activities affect the climate.
In my opinion however this SHOULD NOT shift the focus in us trying to find ways we can live on this planet without f-ing it up like we are now.
As for your comment on goverments and taxes, well goverment have never been able to do much but tax people anyways and line pockets of politicians thats nothing new, politics must be abolished. It is humanities evolutionary tail, we don't need it no more, so cut it off.

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Today's world is of public opinion and the fates of nations are determined through its pressure. Once the tools for building public opinion are obtained, everything that you asked for can be done. --- Osama bin Laden when relating how global media has the minds of the masses.
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SeraphicSorcerer

Well we need "politics" but politics that's for the people. Politics are just a fancy way of debating policies, if everyone would stop calling everyone else a marxist or bible thumping retard then maybe we wouldn't have such shit policies to begin with. (In America at least)

The fact is Mankind is just like the Agent Smith quote, Most people do not live in harmony with the land, Most modern society, consumes consumes wastes wastes, So Global warming screwing up the ecology, whatever We have an environmental impact regardless, and that should be focusing on more organic, or bio-degradeable techs.

If our brains can do it, I am sure we can figure out a way to do it to.

As for Your post, There's also scientific knowledge that word associate can swing influence, because of the way people associate words and connect words, dihydrogen monoxide (water) sounds like it's far more insidious counter-parts.

That study is also worthless. It just points out that the way humans learn words by connection and something similar sounding may overwrite a word because it's there.

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dawgXdenta

I disagree with your view on politics look into "e community governments" or the members of the Bahai faith who use a similar system. Its a solution which completely removes the need to vote for some rich individual who will make decisions by him/herself. Basically it is with the use of technology the society is connected through a series of Information systems that are transparent and accessible. So you can vote on any issue.
Your choice is recorded into a database and the people YOU selected to do the job get it done.

The selection of such people is based on expertise, knowledge and capability and people in the community are voted in , without the need for campaigning coz its easy to tell people who stand out because they care they don't have to say they do, you will see them through their contributions in society.

Anyways these people are voted to do the jobs and have limited time of service so as to limit the power they wield, also if they breach their terms they can be kicked out and replaced.
They cannot make any decision without the societies approval and they cannot make a decision without a society vote.

As you see technology falls at the center of such a structure otherwise it would take forever for anything to be done.

Sorry for length

But i think you will agree this would be FAR BETTER than the soo called "democracy that we have"

Back to topic at hand, when people FINALLY control their own destinies they will be propelled and encouraged to be active in their comminutues and not feel helpless, crime would fall as more people hook up and people would take care of the environment more because now they feel engaged to decisions about the environment instead of watching politicians and rich companies debate it among themselves while we helplessly watch on

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Today's world is of public opinion and the fates of nations are determined through its pressure. Once the tools for building public opinion are obtained, everything that you asked for can be done. --- Osama bin Laden when relating how global media has the minds of the masses.
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Jac

When I first heard of the climate conspiracy lobby I lumped them in with the typical conspiracy theory nutjobs - now I'm not so sure. I am sure that 'global warming', now re-branded to 'climate change' because we've actually been cooling for 10 years, is being used by governments to tax the ass of the citizens. Terrorism or Climate-Change are the buzzwords used whenever the government wants to deny some freedoms or raise some taxes.

Personally I think some warming would be very welcome. Especially here in the north of England. If it does get a bit warmer so what, life will adapt, nature will adapt.

The biggest problem is population growth - that's a tough cookie that will have to be dealt with sooner or later.

SeraphicSorcerer

I never said Our political system was necessary, only that politics were necessary. Our current American system is corrupt, but will fix itself eventually, and we're not a democracy, we're a democratic republic. True democracies have Prime ministers which can call for re-elections.

I agree that we must be led by the best and brightest but also those that care about the people, and are for the people. It does not always take a genius to lead, just as we're sometimes lead by a fool.

either way, the point is as a native american, I view the climate, and ecology of the planet as non-interchangeable, they are related, and both should be cared for, for the good of all. Some people seemingly don't care and they are no better then any other criminal, it's just their crime goes against a victim that has no voice of her own, But she occasionally gets her vengeance. hehe

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Judas

Of course we should be more concervative with resources and more efficient..

But the Problem is that they are focusing on reducing our carbon (Co2) footprint which isn't at all where to start....

Top it off they are imposing restrictions on the people themselves when we aren't the main "poluter" to begin with at all, our combined poluttion isn't anything like the big companies responcible for producing terrible packaged products resulting in the polution, it's not about recycling, it's about proper packing, proper management of potential waste, it's not the peoples fault that there is are tons of crap produced. The people cannot "afford" the REAL solutions or else we'd all have it.

Shit they turned "recycling" into a profitable business, essentially a propetual make work project. By increasing the amount of various plastics and waist produced, they are now able to make more jobs and in turn actually produce more garbage and waist at an alarming rate.

It doens't take a genius to figure out that while the orginal concepts were great, the movements for being greener have EXCELLENT marrit and good ideas, but theres always the greedy bastards that are going to turn it around the moment it gets a foothold, into a profittable system that completely destroys it's orginal intent.

Back in the day we had plenty of biodegradeable things, then they moved to plastics and other containers that were far more dangerous, then they started recycling only to start producing even more of this crap. Very few things are biodegradeable, There are green methods of getting computers to be more friendly, but the costs involved right now won't do it. And this is where the system consistantly fails to work, The capitalism system Fails when either a product is so good but expensive that no one buys it causing issues.

We'd all be self sustained and eco friendly in all manners if the big dollar wasn't sitting there. Who wouldn't want zero monthly costs for energy you manage yourself, water/sewage/everything self sustained and maintained, the technology is available, has been for years, any the big boys know this, which means the dollar value on that stuff must be kept high for a select few or else no one would really have a need to buy much of anything from anyone.

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dawgXdenta

What can I say you are right, we cant expect a failed system to give us non-failed results GIGO(garbage in garbage out) so even something good like recycling will lead nowhere unless this mental, spiritual, political ,economic dictatorship dies, and all things die.

People will wake up Judas don't worry it will take time but , maybe a very long time but it will happen eventually we are after all also evolving and useless things get left behind.

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Today's world is of public opinion and the fates of nations are determined through its pressure. Once the tools for building public opinion are obtained, everything that you asked for can be done. --- Osama bin Laden when relating how global media has the minds of the masses.
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Segurito

It's nice to see this kind of debates here, anyway...
Reading the post's here I agree with so many points such as the warm period of the medieval age, the relation between "global warming" and CO2, the lack of scientific consensus, et cetëra.

So... actually I came by to talk about a documentary that I saw some years ago which it's called "The great global warming swindle", as any documental, this will help to debate with yourself the posibilities and the information given.

Judas

There are more documentries from retribule scientists that deal specifically and are in the fields that the "global warming" theorists claim to be the main things that back their theories up, yet they present completely contradictory evidence to what is stated as fact clearly showing it as being falsified and a outright lie.

What's baffling is the fact that they rarely if EVER get any form of airtime on national/internation TV stations.... and definitely never get to see the light of day on major networks. So to view them or EVER hear of them you have to go through alternative sources and media outlets. Which brings up a number of coincidental circumstances and issues as to why that is.

In essence, with the amount of information available, and the hard evidence that shows that Al Gore and is misfits, the UN global warming panel and countless other so claimed to be following "scientific" methods to prove their point to be a frabricated lie should be thoroughly investigated, charged and jailed.

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Segurito

What you just said here is the essence of the problems the humanity is having right now.