temeteus82

Why IMF and EU are toothless to tell Greece to start selling companies it owns. Their current market value is far greater than the debt..... It makes me quite mad to think that some thing that they knew that was coming is solved by the rest of the tax payers in EU! The very reason for this is the companies and private sector in Greece that didn't pay it's taxes and the people why silently approved it.

BTW. This was in FT some time ago.. FT - Privatisations offer Greece the best way to avoid a bail-out

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BlueMak

Up till 6 months ago the percentage for borrowing for Greece was the same as for other countries of the similar market value, 1.5-3%. When the socialist government took over there was a coordinated "attack" which forced the borrowing interest to reach 5-7% which is a huge amount. The plan behind it was to force Greece to either default (ie bankrupt) or force the Eurozone to pay (less likely). With the only reason behind it for some individuals and companies to make billions and to hell everyone else. Greece was already paying back its debts on time. At the same time Germany wanted for the Euro to devalue in relation to the US Dollar so that to improve their exports. When it was made clear of the attack Greece was under, Germany kept delaying any positive comments that would help release the pressure on Greece, but more importantly on the EURO. The EURO kept falling, their profits kept increasing (just read about the attack on the british pound few years ago which was in a way similar)
Although Greece was still able to pay back debts (the main "problem"/worry according to some) there was a huge campaign in the media, mainly by media controlled by the same people and companies who would make money for any bankruptcy of Greece. The interest kept increasing and it reached a point where it was just too expensive to borrow money from the markets to finance with cash the greek economy (something that every single country does btw).
Some ignorant people, mainly Europeans, having been fed with constant propaganda, also started saying we do not want to give money to Greece. Greece wasn't asking for money from any government yet. Only the political pressure of their governments to stop the attacks. This help didn't come for reasons already explained. When Greece finally accepted and asked for loans (that is loans, not free money, not that you seem to give a shit about it) from the Eurozone countries, most of the governments there started seeing that this had NOTHING to do with Greece, but it was a complete attack on the Euro. Even the German government was slowly opening its eyes that their game could get much worse if the Euro continued to fall beyond what it would be acceptable. When it was decided for the amount 110 or so billion, the same people attacking, started attacking other weak eurozone countries. Once again, it had nothing to do with any specific country but with the attack on the common currency.

Some extra benefits from countries going bankrupt or near that? Well, for one they are forced to sell property, companies, land, bonds at much much lower value than the market value, in other words almost give away them to the same people who organized and carried on the attacks which made the current situation real.

I advice you to actually study what the hell is going on before you attack a country.
The same way it would be stupid for anyone to say that Finland was a nazi country which lost land to the great world freedom known as the USSR.
Not only it makes you say nonsense, it also prolongates the propaganda against both Greece and the Euro.
If it wasn't Greece, it would be another country in its place. Spain is already under attack as is Portugal. The only relation with Greece is that Greece was "saved" and thus became a harder target for a while, but not for long.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

temeteus82

Good points BM. And I do agree on some of them.

Can you share some light about the VAT issue that I've been hearing. The deal is that you could get services cheaper if you didn't need a receipt. That's just one way to do business of the books.


btw. Can you name one of the few companies that has targeted Euro zone as you say..

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BlueMak

I am not exactly sure what you mean about the VAT. What many did (and probably still do) was to offer their services for a reduced price. So if something costs 120 with the VAT, you only pay 100 (if the VAT for this is 20%). This way the buyer pays 20% less, and the seller sells "black" meaning that the 100 he does get is not taxable, not just for this one off exchange but also in the long run. So if he does it often, at the end of the year it looks (in books) that he has fewer sales, thus he pays less tax.

Few of the companies? Oh my, just take any major international bank, companies owned or controlled by Rupert Murdoch, George Soros (who did even worst damage to the British pound few years back and was stopped at the last minute) and several others.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

temeteus82

What I've heard that the small business weren't paying VAT's at all because there is no proof of transaction at all. So no need to pay the VAT to the Government. And your case is just as bad. Since it means that the Government don't get the true amount of tax ... Less tax money = need to borrow more money = this deal in the end...

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BlueMak

The first is not accurate. Small businesses can't get away with it as easily. Those who could and did to a percentage of perhaps 30% were people selling services, like private doctors, plumbers etc.
No matter what though, of course it is a bad thing, no question about it.
It's not even the worst thing.
And still, irrelevant to what is causing this crisis.
It sounds like they are trying to scare you to make even more sure you pay all your taxes lol.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

temeteus82

Actually they might be trying that but there is STRONG opposition about the whole loan deal. Because Itally, Spain, Portugal and Ireland would be next in line to ask loans... The general opinion in here is that we should not borrow your Government any money.

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BlueMak

I wish you do that. This way the Eurozone will collapse soon enough, perhaps a year from now. Then all the snotty north Europeans will see their Euro lose all value. That would be hilarious.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

Judas

gotta love those that control those powers and their intentions....

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