comp_ali

More than 10 people have been killed after Israeli commandos stormed a convoy of ships carrying aid to the Gaza Strip, the Israeli army says.

Armed forces boarded the largest vessel overnight, clashing with some of the 500 people on board.

It happened about 40 miles (64 km) out to sea, in international waters.
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source: BBC

temeteus82

If my memory servers me right. They were warned that Israeli Navy will boar the ships if they attempt to break the blockade!! Now they know that this will happen why they didn't just let the Israeli force aboard and sale for harbor in Israel. But instead they we trying to cause death, pain and violence on these ships and they got what they wanted. Not a smart move if people would like to have peace in the Middle East....

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IvanV

Interesting viewpoint. A ship is in international waters, it's night and armed men are boarding it, but it's the people on that ship's fault that violence occurs?

It has been a policy of Israel that international law does not apply to them when they have a just cause, and also that their cause is always just. They say that they have the right and must be tough because none of their neighbours wish them well, but it's not like they wish any of their neighbours well either so they are hardly better in that respect.

I think that Israel should accept the same norms observed by other civilized countries, or the international community should stop considering them a civilized country.

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temeteus82

Yes people on board these ships were informed that if they attempt to break the blockade they will be boarded. Now they knew this for sure. Israeli forces have good amount of experience to handle large number of people. But why some of the people on board these whips must respond to all of this with violence?!

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IvanV

If they were intercepted as they entered Israeli waters and told to turn away or be boarded, that would have been a very different matter. As it is, Israel captured a ship flying the flag of a sovereign country, Turkey, carrying humanitarian aid, while in international waters, which was borderline piracy, simply because they chose to do so.

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comp_ali

I wonder how you are certain that people on board were violent and not vice-versa like you were on board , but anyway , the blockade on Gaza is illegal by any law and this is another point.
To bomb a a convoy aid ship in the international water can't be justified even if they were warned before , that's why it is called international water , because no country has an influence over it.

Reckless187

The only people causing death pain voilence are the israelis. You're post are always biased towards them. It ok for them to kill innocent people is the way you always come across.

They were ship crew members and unarmed, israelis are armed military soldier with guns and you're saying the civillians are the ones in the wrong. LOL @ 'Not a smart move if people would like to have peace in the Middle East....' Not a smart move by the israeli military more like.

Wake up son.

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OldBuzzard

Oh I don't know, maybe like the AK47 firing at 1:13? Well before the first IDF soldier landed on the deck.
YouTube - Israeli troops attacks Turkish ship carrying aid to Gaza

Yeah, VERY peaceful people on the boat as this video shows as well:
BBC News - Israeli PM 'regrets' deaths as troops storm aid ships

If that was a "humanitarian effort", I'm a Japanese Aviator".

It was CLEARLY meant to be a confrontation from the very start. They were told REPEATEDLY to divert to another port for inspection, and any supplies would be delivered to their destination.

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temeteus82

Yes because no-one will even try to look the other point of view. And no-one will think that perhaps Hamas and the other groups in the Gaza strip needs violence to stay in charge of things. But do look the links OldBuzzard linked on his post


[EDIT] in this BBC article they got nice video of the so called "peace activists on board" http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/mid...t/10201165.stm

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comp_ali

The videos show the armed israeli forces storming the ship , if I were in those activists place I'd do the same. If those activists were armed like you said the causalities (deaths) would be much bigger on israeli side but actually , the death (19) are all on the activists side and there are 9 or so wounded on the Israeli side.
How come if they have AK47's (which I couldn't see in the video btw) and they're ready to attack and yet fail to kill any soldier ?

The response of those activists are logical if you look at it from this way , you are sailing on international water and not provoking any laws , you find a force boarding on your ship . You will offer them a coffee and food, ha ?

temeteus82

And look the video in here : BBC News - UN urges inquiry into Israel convoy raid
[EDIT] videos ..


and

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comp_ali

Nothing wrong with some carpenter tools and kitchen knives (you know these tool are used the kitchens unless you use plastic knives in your home) ,where is the Ak's btw.
Now I am surprised where the part of the video that shows killing the 19 activists gone , oh never mind it was cut before it was shown on TV.

temeteus82

I see ali that you are blind as a bat... Oh well perhaps it is your way to see things but as shown in the videos the IDF solders were greeted with those bats... Perhaps the AK's were thrown over board when they realized that IDF has the upper hand

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comp_ali

Zardon was right when called you close-minded (except I am no't sure about mind existence) , good luck and keep posting about Nokia shares going up and sticking your own threads.

I will refrain from now on from replying since I want to keep my nerves down atm. Keep failing.

Judas

just a FYI, there was a report of a Israeli contact that was on that ship and some of the survivors of the raid reported that this man which wasn't cuffed and drug around like a herd of sheep had opened fired on the incoming force.

More confusion and questionable False flag bullshit as per usual.

All it takes is one or a few infiltrators to do something totally against the policies of the whole to cause death and distruction but instigating violence and fighting.

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temeteus82

I think that was single mined. Yeah he was correct but it only applies when I'm trying to show the other point of view. For you everything that goes wrong in the Middle-East is Israelis fault....

Judas you got a link for that report ?? But that does not explain why the landing troops were met with clubs ....

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Judas

well considering the relatively new incident.. it'll likely be a few months before we get any more "realistic" sources.. right now aside from what the current media is providing us with for evidence and news on the stuff, most of anything else is alternative, doesn't take much googling to find a few odd things the state some contradicting information.

Granted the club deal is questionable, but like i said, it's total confusion, it is not at hard to understand that when it was orginal thought that the storming troops had actually been the ones that opened fired on them, not some jackass imposter firing in on them, I would think i'd grab anything i had available to defend myself and stave off the attack the best i could.

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temeteus82

even when the "attacker" would only have paintball gun?!

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Judas

Look, your dealing with international waters, shots are heard being fired, the most emediate reaction is to take a very defensive posture and if your either defending from people you do not know coming onboard your ship, or your the one boarding an unknown vessel.... people are going to use a voilent measure.... top it of it's not exactly reported to be uncommon for small ships to be taken and the passagers or owners to be left to drift if they don't at least show some form of retaliation...

Either way this can be discussed about for ages yet before any hard pressed facts are available..... right now it's all confusing

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mkk

Had the people on the boat been properly armed and killed some of the attackers then they would have been in their full right to do so under the present circumstances. Basic rules of law when it comes to international or maritime law cannot be ignored just because you hate either palestinians, arabs or muslims in general.

Liqourice

I'm just amazed that people think this attack is justified and right in any way and that a group of humanitarians defending themselves with sticks and stones against machine guns on international water are the aggressors.

I also can't imagine how Israel can act in a fashion like this since it will only make things even more difficult for them and they only play in the hands of Iran. I'm sure the Iranian president is clapping his hands over this because Israel have alienated themselves even more.

How can anyone defend the fact that Israel constantly violates international law? When will the US government stop defending them because as long as they do Israel will continue to act like this and noone dares oppose.

No, I'm not blaming Israel for everything bad that happens in the middle east but they're certainly not doing anything to improve things.

I know very well that Hamas isn't the best thing that's happened but in truth, continuing this illegal blockade and enforcing it like this will only strengthen the grip Hamas has over the Palestinians in Gaza. I just don't understand how they can fail to see this. Open the borders, let the aid in, stop the blockade, allow the people in Gaza to have contact with the rest of the world and they will eventually start to see Hamas for what they are.

This is not the way.

temeteus82

You count paintball gun as machine gun? As you see on the videos the IDF troops were attached before the even landed the darn ship...

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Liqourice

Are you saying that the soldiers used paintball guns? I seriously doubt that considering that 19 people died.

And honestly, if you were about to be boarded on international water, wouldn't you try to fend them off?

I have to ask you again, how can you consider them to be the aggressors and not the israeli soldiers?

Judas

i've been doing more research on this from many different sites and perspectives.. and there is actually audio and video that clearly shows them attacking the ship first, not to mention that painball guns where not used, rubber bullets were used but there was indeed additional force and use of lethal artillary.

Additionally, the grew of over 400 are locked away in a jail ilegally, with no access to lawyers of any kind, stuffed into a millitary jail of all things, one a select few have been deported (or are going to be) and some have immunity.

In ANY which way, what israel did was 100% ilegally, and theres no way around that fact. They have 100% obvious intentions and if the crew did manage to have any form of real weapons, i would have no quarms over the entire squad being slaughtered due to their ilegal offensive nature in what they did.

Worst part is, majority of the crew on board were sleeping at the time or attempting to which REALLY makes things look horrible.

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temeteus82

Well I haven't seen these clips ?? Perhaps you are willing to share the links ...

All the people on board these ships were released at the time you wrote the post

And that depends how you read the law and agreements about blockades. If the ships were dead set to broke the blockade the law says that they can be stopped at international waters.


Some reading for you : Israel: Did the activists get what they wanted - confrontation? | Mail Online

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temeteus82

Yes they initially used paintball guns to try to control the people. They are visible on some of the videos were the IHH's people beat the IDF troops. But they did have their 9mm service pistols with them. There were reports that the people a board the MV Mavi Marmara tried to take hold of these 9mm pistols. As you can see from the footage the situation was chaotic so small wonder that 9 (nine) people were killed and 60 activists and 10 IDF members injured....

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Judas

fyi... the more they focus on "pre-crime" the more problematic it is going to be..


fyi i'm not posting anything for sources as there are tons of alternative sites getting their hands on it.

Also i've yet to see what i consider a credible source state that all there prisoners had been released.

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Tahir Khan

Sounds like Minority Report.

As to the poor Israeli's, US quick send them more money and armaments to save 'em from these savages. Poor defenseless innocent Israeli's... aww.

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Judas

beyond those pictures of knives and pipes and stuff.... they never found any guns or weapons according to the latest report.... they only found tons of medical supplies, food and other basic required for life necessities...

And yes.... the idea of minority report is already in place..... based on the most stupid and over paranoid ilogical things, they can lock you up indefinitely now....

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comp_ali

BBC News - Israeli troops take over Gaza aid ship Rachel Corrie