K.I.L.E.R

The North Korean Leader Kim Jong II threatens war if a blockade were formed.

The Australian Prime Minister John Howard has already given full support for American President's idea.
Of course it is said that such a blockade will be a last ditch effort.

Diplomacy doesn't seem to get anywhere by the looks of things.

Is this due to poor diplomatic skills or Kim's stubborness?

On another note, does Nth Korea posses the missile technology to hit Australia with their rockets?
How large of a payload does their current nuke posses?

Can the missile defense system in it's current satge be deployed to destroy a warhead while traveling over the Pacific waters?

Should Australians/Americans worry about North Korea?

I have read that they have a standing force of just over 1M and over 7M in reserves.
Is this B$?

Would it be possible to invade the Nth and completely dispose of any threats they can offer in future?

Would small payload (1-10Mt) nuclear weapons be deployed by America if a war with Nth Korea is official?

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dipstick

I think the word DEMON pretty much sums it up for this guy.

Falstaff

I can say with some validity, that N. Korea has an incredible army composed of highly trained and dangerous units capable of suicide attacks against any allied threat across the border...
But I would also like to add that Kim knows that we have matched his arsenal of men and machines with tremendous resources, firepower and an effective partnership with our allies and even the chinese and russians....His postering in my opinion is merely another incremental unit of control over a stalemate that simply maintains the posture that was established after the Korean war...
As for Nukes......they are there, in quantities sufficient to elminate immediate threats....and perhaps a sustained campaign of attrition against his forces....
if he loses more than 40 percent of his army N. Korea would not be able to defend itself against the unilateral threat of a joint response from out allies.....
He knows this...

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JavaFox

Kim doesn't want war, he wants concessions. Where's Clinton when you need him!?

Falstaff

concessions and welfare thanx B. clinton

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raid517

Still I'd like to see the world turn its attention to N. Korea one way or another. If there was an invasion, I think maybe the West is overstating (again) the level of resistance they are likely to encounter. This is one of the last remaining wounds from the cold war. Fix that - and then only China stands in the way. However the possibility of anybody ever really having the balls to take on China are pretty much non existant. That would be down to the Chineese people to fix, and look what happend last time they tried. It may be old, but rather than diverting resources in a stupid and pointless pursuit in Iraq (it could always have been dealt with later) I still think real and serious attention should have been focused on Korea. No doubt they would be a tougher nut to crack than a bunch of fairly lightly armed Arabs, but in the end I feel sure a lot more would be achieved.

Still I don't run the world, so I guess things will just amble along until something horrible happens - and then maybe our politicians will act. Then again, maybe not.

Q

Falstaff

the chinese and the russians and perhaps the Vietnamese have made strange bedfellows, conisistently remaining conservative regarding N. Korea, The japanese have been ready for some to time to react with force against any hostile action from N. Korea

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merry

And so would N. Korea themselves... Living here - beyond the iron curtain - I had some prospective over the industrial capabilities of other comunist countries - oops, popular democracies, that is.

Cuba produces cigars and candy - orange, one flavour only. Vietnam had some alimentary products (dried shrimp) and possibly some minor industrial machinery (that I don't remember).

Czechoslovakia and Poland had a lot of stuff, from cars (Skoda and respectively the Polski FIAT) to electronics (Tesla and Unitra, from components to high end audio, TV etc). Bulgaria, besides yoghurt/vegetables, were building some fancy industrial automation (yes, yes) and PCs (up to 386).

Russia - er, the USSR - were making most everything, from cars and electronics to A bombs. Their economical espionage was working great, they were producing most of the ICs patented by Motorola/Intel/NS/YouNameIt just a couple of years later than the originals.

China was a bit special, they did manufacture lots of stuff... but it looked amateuristic (in the early nineties I had this awful chinese machine on my hands). Things have changed a lot, but still, remember their satelite launches landing on cities miles away from the launch site?

N. Korea - they didn't export ANYTHING. And for a good reason, they didn't make anything. They may have some technology and materials from whatever power is interested in keeping them alive, they may have some military specialists from that country, but imo they're totally unable to conduct a nuclear program by themselves - it takes a working industry to build a working military industry, and remember that a couple of years ago they had that TV programmes telling N. Korean public which trees' leaves were commestible...

I'd like to think that US intelligence is aware of who is behind the N. Korean nuclear hoax, but after Iraq, I don't know.

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There is a war between the ones who say there is a war
and the ones who say there isn't.
~~Leonard Cohen

Falstaff

that is the whole problem....no plausible deniability

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raid517

What do you mean Jeff? I wouldn't be so sure about the intelligence, but listening to the Korean leader is enough to make me think he needs to be dealt with. It is a kind of a hoax as merry said. How can they be that big a deal, when they can't even feed their own people? They have no money to buy any really effective weaponry. I'm not saying it would be a walkover, but I think after nearly 60 years of isolation, dealing with them will be much easier than people think. I pretty much go along with everything merry said.

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Falstaff

that a nuclear threat exists and doing so, continue to mask our efforts at diplomacy with N. Korea with....yes.....more darn concessions

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raid517

Well I don't know what Americans are so afraid of. I say kick their butts. (Although I don't agree with those that are contemplating nuking them).

All you will have to do is wave some hamburgers in their troops faces - and pretty soon you can be sure they will all give up.

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Falstaff

with N. Korea would precipitate other equally destructive conflicts with other nations on the same level...M.A.D..

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raid517

Well you have to throw China into the mix on that one. They might get worried that they were next. Not good.

I think it shouldn't be so hard to kick their buts anyway. Even if they did have one or two small nuclear bombs. You would just have to do an awful lot by air first, before you ever dreamed of going in.

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Falstaff

that really scares me...it's china

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raid517

The other problem is the clean up cost I guess. Just think how much a country like that would cost to fix after it had virtually been destroyed. Iraq is close to breaking our backs as it is.

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Roadee

why not just let China, Japan, Nam handle it? It is there turf.....let them lose the lives of soldiers.....why does the US always have to wipe everyones ass? I am sick of our troops being the world police....hell.....just let France handle it.....they think they are supreme anyway!

Tell me......why is it that we have the UN?? I am sick of cleaning up everyone else's mess. Pull the troops out of Iraq and just use the Navy and Air Force to blast them whenever they act up.....if it becomes to much of a problem........parking lot anyone??

Let Asia take care of there own mess......just block them from getting to our mainland.....and help protect our Allies. I am sick of the loss of life over someone else's problem.

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We are born naked, wet, and hungry. Then things get worse.

raid517

Erm so America isn't concerned about its trading links with Japan and the far East then? Ooops, it looks like it might be your problem after all. Shoot.... I should have toned down what i said a little I think. I should have known it would bring the loonies out of the woodwork.

Q

PS

Anyway, you made Iraq your problem, no one asked you to and in the end they turned out not to be a problem anyway. Lol, this is when it hits home I guess, its good fun (to crazy people) to go stomping all over the world, but when things don't go your way, and you realise your going to be paying for your fun for over a decade or more you want someone else to pay. The UN should pay for something most of them thought was a bad idea hu? Boy I really smell a lot of hypocrytes on these threads now.

Falstaff

so deeply cynical of American efforts to bring democracy to them....I am not against a theocracy in IRAQ

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FuNsTeR

their will be major reluctance from the UK after Bush blamed Blair for the Iraq war when it was Blair trying to keep Bush within the UN and basically stop USA going it alone ... i think you'll find Blair won't be so keen to get involved again

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"They say when you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear satanic messages ..... but that's nothing, if you play it forward it will install Windows"

raid517

That's news to me Funstrer, you mean Bush is now publically blaming Blair, his only true friend when everyone else had abandoned him? If that's true its shameful.

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mike2h

it is not true. people in uk are blaming blair. blair said today he was totally with the us.

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Falstaff

But the credibility of the CIA and the relationship with the current administration has undergone serious scrutiny (no surprise) and perhaps a shakeup is in order.

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FuNsTeR

he said it was dodgy british inteligence and we all know who's getting it over here ..... Blair is a suck up artist to Bush , quite frankly Blair won't last long after the Kelly affair/death now a judicial investigation is being launched

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"They say when you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear satanic messages ..... but that's nothing, if you play it forward it will install Windows"

Falstaff

is pretty resilient, he will triumph with his integrity and his job I hope, but british politics can be volitale

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Roadee

raid517

"I should have toned down what i said a little I think. I should have known it would bring the loonies out of the woodwork."


Keep comments like this to yourself and off this forum.....they will not be tolerated.

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We are born naked, wet, and hungry. Then things get worse.

Falstaff

it's kinda english Roadee, he means no harm

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raid517

Its an Eglish phrase dude, it is not intended to be offensive. All the same, peeps foaming at the mouth saying how as America has been abused in the choices she has made and because she chooses to protect here own vital intersts is never a pretty sight. All I'm saying is you should tone it down a little. America has 100's of billions of dollars of trade with that region, so saying America is simply acting as the world's poleman is not wholly accurate. Nor is it accurate if you are referring to Iraq, which in all possible political terms is little short of a debacle. If you will care to recall (perhaps you wont) the majority of the rest of the world told America not to bother about Iraq, it was no big deal. But your govenment refused to listen. And now look at the outcome, America and the UK are faced with one of the biggest tax bills in living history, with no viable way out for at least the next decade. No wonder you want the UN to pay. But the wont, because, putting it bluntly, why should they? After all they told you so. Its not the rest of the world's fault that your govenment simply refused to listen. I would laugh, I might even find it funny, except that I live in the UK - and my government has just recently announced it is setting aside some 3 1/2 billion pounds (about 5 billion dollars) for the reconstruction of Iraq over the next 4 years. So effectively I'm being made to pay for something I didn't want and disagreed with from the very beginning.

I don't get it, I mean what do you want me to say? Do you want me to say thanks?

If America is the World's policeman I pretty much think they should fire all the detectives and executive branch and put some people in place who won't try to forge the evidence and put people in the frame when its evident that there isn't real culprit. If it is the world's policeman, right now its looking more like a bent cop, than someome with the best interests of the world at heart.

None of that is my doing, so don't blame me when someone points it out to you.

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Roadee

raid......I really dont want to get into this with you again..

You have a habit of making out of place comments about people...not the issue's. Stick to the issue and all is good, calling someone "looney" because of there opinion is BS. If you dont like someone's views....so be it, but keep your personal comments to yourself, English thing or not.

I am not in the government, nor do I have control of what they do. But I used to work for them....as a soldier.....a "specialist's" if you will, in the XVIII AB Corps, Gulf War Veteran. When I said that I am tired of us being "world police", I meant the US and Britian, seeing as how in recent history they seem to be connected at the hip.

Alot of your views I agree with, some I dont. But keep in mind, the government is one thing.....the people are another. Maybe instead of saying the "U.S." or the "U.S. people".......you should say the US government or Bush, they are the ones playing a video game with real lives, and I still have family and friends over there getting shot at. And as we found out in the last election, the individual vote here doesn't count, so I know my opinion doesn't mean shit to my government. And it seems that you are stuck with the same taxes and high cost of living that the American people are.

On the topic of the UN......I think they are useless and should be disolved, or at least the administration cleared out and new brought in. But a politician is just that.......most are just in it for themselves, so it wouldn't really make a difference.

I am entitled to my opinion, as you are yours. Take it or leave it, but dont make it personal. I know my views are radical, but Iraq is BS, and Korea is going to be even worse, I just think it is time for China to do something besides saying, "you cant do that, but we aren't going to do anything either" It's a bunch of crap. And now they are looking at Iran.......damn......what next? Conflict and war is easy for the ones that dont or haven't fought in it, they aren't losing anything.

Raid......I have nothing against you, you make a hell of a debate and give a much different view that makes things interesting. I respect your opinion.....returning the favor would be the gentleman thing to do.

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We are born naked, wet, and hungry. Then things get worse.

raid517

Well I don't know about Gentleman... On the whole in real life I expect you would find me a rough and ready son of a bitch. I speak my mind, and sometimes that means stepping on people's toes. But what the hey, if you were offended then I'm sorry. You're just a tad more sensitive than most people I know...

In any case I have been much abused on this forum in the past for making the very distinctions you say I should make now, namely that the American government is not always wholly representative of the American people - and therefore I should feel free to criticise the US government (and my own) without fearing this would be misinterprited as a mistrust or dislike for all the American people. Previously criticising the American govenment was seen as anti-American. But now as people seek to distance themselves from their governments position, it is suddenly acceptable to criticize the govenment - doing this isn't ant-American anymore, people in general appear much more prepared to make that clear distinction.

As for the UN being useless, well the world would be hard pushed to live without the humanitarian support they offer, as it acts as a central clearing house for almost all countries aid dolnations and reconstruction programs. If your talking about the UN being weak militarily then yes, but this is because countries taditionally have too many conflicting interests to cooperate militarily through the UN. In any case let us not forget that the biggest blow to UN authority came in recent months from the US itself, when it effectively bypassed/undermined the UN process and the concerns of the weapons inspectors and charged headlong into a war that very few countries in this world were convinced was necessary. So if the UN is innefective, it is through no small effort of the US to make it that way.

You cannot expect international coopertaion, or understanding and particularly financial assistance if you are going to run off about the world and behave in a unilateral way, particularly where the outcome and the motivations behind your actions are shown to be completely bogus.

Call me crazy, but these are the repocussions of acting alone in the world.

Anyway, you are right, sometimes I wonder if the US and UK shouldn't just stop pretending and go for reunification. Maybe the UK feels responsible for giving birth to the US. Maybe its something to do wiith WWII. I don't pretend to fully understand it. It is a very strange and very intense relationship. I'm afraid someone else will have to try to make sense of that one.

Q