Hitler's Germany

FuNsTeR · Feb 15, 2011, 10:59 AM

not the nicest regime ... but for some reason nazi germany is seen as the pinnacle of evil .... not that i am defending nazi Germany but their were far worse regimes .. take Stalin's USSR (CCCP) killed over 25 million of his OWN people ... forced relocation of entire ethnic groups from one part of the soviet union to another ... the entire population living in fear of being the next victims of stalins brutal regime .... 7 million deaths in Ukraine before WW2 had even started ..... as churchill stated we have sided with 1 devil to defeat another .... history has proven it was a fatal mistake ... we should have fought our own war and allowed nazi germany and the soviet union destroy each other ... instead of allowing the soviet union to grow stronger and more brutal .

then their was Chairman Mao of The Peoples Republic of China under the auspice of the cultural revolution 45 million chinese perished ... even still in modern China people are murdered for speaking out of turn or sent to work camps to die with no hope of release

Neshi · Feb 15, 2011, 08:45 PM

your point?

FuNsTeR · Feb 15, 2011, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neshi

your point?

my point is China under mao and the Soviet union under stalin were not and stil not as vilified as Germany under hitler ... though the other two regimes were more evil and murdered more of their own civilians ... yet modern day Germans are still to live with the stigma 65 years on

**synthesis204** · Feb 15, 2011, 10:45 PM

Excuse me? Stalin's SU was FAR worse off. Stalin killed over twice as many people and ruled over twice as long as Hitler. The Great Silence put in place after Stalin's death gripped the country and ruined families. Hitler's victims and perpetrators got closure very soon after his regime with the Nuremberg Trials, while Stalin's victims had nothing for decades.

Hitler is the most overblown evil crybaby ever.

PS: My honors senior thesis was on the Russian Great Silence in comparison to the Holocaust, so... >_>

blibbax · Feb 15, 2011, 10:47 PM

Describing Hitler's vilification as overblown might be going a little far, but yes, we do hate him more than other evil people in history. It's probably due to wartime propaganda.

Neshi · Feb 15, 2011, 11:51 PM

hmmm.. I don't hate Hitler. Hate is such a heavy word...
He has done some good stuff for the country as well, although that naturally withers when put next to his evil deeds.

Stalin was pretty bad, but the reason nobody seems to really know about that is that it is not in the middle of europe and no other countries were involved.

FuNsTeR · Feb 16, 2011, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blibbax

Describing Hitler's vilification as overblown might be going a little far, but yes, we do hate him more than other evil people in history. It's probably due to wartime propaganda.

i am not defending Hitler ..... he was a very evil man ... i just don't feel it is right that only the youth of Germany are reminded of their country's dark past.

by the end of WW2 the USSR had become a even bigger threat ... a menacing threat that lasted over 4 decades

blibbax · Feb 16, 2011, 12:45 PM

It's not only the youth of Germany that are reminded of their country's dark past.

I live in the UK, which hasn't even been mentioned as an evil place so far, but I spent plenty of time in school listening to and reading about talk of the slave trade, Britain's failure to bomb the concentration camps, colonial exploitation, the inhumane fire bombing of Dresden, etc.

FuNsTeR · Feb 16, 2011, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blibbax

It's not only the youth of Germany that are reminded of their country's dark past.

I live in the UK, which hasn't even been mentioned as an evil place so far, but I spent plenty of time in school listening to and reading about talk of the slave trade, Britain's failure to bomb the concentration camps, colonial exploitation, the inhumane fire bombing of Dresden, etc.

it was actually us that started the use of concentration camps in the boer war .... and it was the turks that first gassed people in confined places (ie caves) and their target was the ethnic Armenian population in Turkey ... almost 2 million were gassed in the 1920s

Falstaff · Feb 16, 2011, 01:15 PM

Which President in America do you wish to blame for nearly wiping out the culture of the native people? We really did not see body counts until the beginning of the 19th century, but as so many mentioned, the regimes of the former dictators are replete with stories of entire towns, cultures, infrastructure completely wiped away by the "bad guys".
I think it is easier to compare former Pres. Roosevelt and contemporary leaders of his time. We all know that Diplomacy and politics were the province of amateurs and royalty prior to WWII, with the exception of the United States.
Two of three very powerful leaders rose to the world scene in 1930s, Stalin being a product of political turmoil of Russia.
One was Franklin Delano Roosevelt and the other was Adolf Hitler. Both these leaders had many similarities and differences. The similarities between Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Adolf Hitler are as follows. First, both were leaders by symbolic and appeal. FDR used were freedom symbols such as the bald eagle and used kind words to get people to support his ideas. Hitler and his Nazi party used the swastika and other militaristic symbols and used strong words in his speeches.
Of course both wanted to improve their countries. FDR wanted to fix the economy and Hitler wanted Germany regain its honor.
Third, both were leaders during WWII, and struggled with sensitive matters of political alliances, occupation and creating temporary relationships with Russia and Stalin. In fact, regardless of which country you governed in Europe or the western world, you had to deal with Stalin. China on the other hand, still fought a war with the Nationalist Chinese. It was difficult to choose sides, but within the context of world events, the U.S. were occasionally "the bad guys".

Senor_Mota · Feb 21, 2011, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falstaff

Which President in America do you wish to blame for nearly wiping out the culture of the native people? We really did not see body counts until the beginning of the 19th century, but as so many mentioned, the regimes of the former dictators are replete with stories of entire towns, cultures, infrastructure completely wiped away by the "bad guys".
I think it is easier to compare former Pres. Roosevelt and contemporary leaders of his time. We all know that Diplomacy and politics were the province of amateurs and royalty prior to WWII, with the exception of the United States.
Two of three very powerful leaders rose to the world scene in 1930s, Stalin being a product of political turmoil of Russia.
One was Franklin Delano Roosevelt and the other was Adolf Hitler. Both these leaders had many similarities and differences. The similarities between Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Adolf Hitler are as follows. First, both were leaders by symbolic and appeal. FDR used were freedom symbols such as the bald eagle and used kind words to get people to support his ideas. Hitler and his Nazi party used the swastika and other militaristic symbols and used strong words in his speeches.
Of course both wanted to improve their countries. FDR wanted to fix the economy and Hitler wanted Germany regain its honor.
Third, both were leaders during WWII, and struggled with sensitive matters of political alliances, occupation and creating temporary relationships with Russia and Stalin. In fact, regardless of which country you governed in Europe or the western world, you had to deal with Stalin. China on the other hand, still fought a war with the Nationalist Chinese. It was difficult to choose sides, but within the context of world events, the U.S. were occasionally "the bad guys".

I liked reading this.

Neshi · Feb 21, 2011, 05:33 AM

Falstaff.. going that far back you encounter the problem that "history gets written by the victorious" so black pages in countries history get ignored.

For a long time, the inhumane actions of the Dutch (my motherland) in Indonesia have been ignored by schools and only taught them the 'good' stuff. My grandma still thinks we did only good things in Indonesia, bringing the natives educucation, healthcare etc. But the truth is that we enslaved the natives, exploiting them for spices, coffee and tea. This paid for the major part of the Dutch Golden Age. After the 2nd world war, when we lost Indonesia to Japan we waged a couple of wars to regain this goldmine in our control, killing many.
Only after the US threatened to stop giving us the after war aid the dutch government conceded and gave them sovereignty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuNsTeR

i just don't feel it is right that only the youth of Germany are reminded of their country's dark past.

where did you get that idea?
Youth in EVERY western European country gets reminded of Germany's, and hopefully their own, past.
I had to learn European history starting from +- 10th century, and going into detail when all the european wars broke out and everybody changed alliance on whim. Had to familiarize myself with all dark secrets of all European countries (surrounding Holland; so that's France, Germany, Italy, England, Russia)

**synthesis204** · Feb 21, 2011, 06:12 PM

I find it stupid to bring in the UK or the US in this discussion, really. Every country in history has its faults, but the USSR and Nazi Germany were among the worst.

The US had its firebombings in Nam, the nuke in Japan (which actually saved lives, ironically...), the Trail of Tears, Bear Creek Massacre, Japanese internment, and many other issues. We learn about these alongside UK and French failures in public school. However, even with their failures, they are among the more/most successful countries. To quote a famous man, democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.

The point I was trying to make is that Hitler is considered the epitome of evil in many places, while Stalin 1up'd him in almost every way.

Neshi · Feb 22, 2011, 11:05 AM

I'm sure if you go further back in time, some emperors/kings/whatevers 1up'd Stalin in every way. But it wasn't documented.

point is.. Hitler did it to other countries while Stalin did it in his own, which is why it isn't as notorious.

Optix · Feb 22, 2011, 12:34 PM

I have a squirmy 2 year old on my lap so my apologies for not reading beyond the opening post.

The reason why Nazi Germany was so vilified (aside from the whole genocide attempt) compared to Stalin's USSR or Mao's China is that North American media was not or is not welcome in either area. When the Nazi concentration camps were liberated there was members of the media in various companies that took pictures and shot video and all of this was all relayed back to the West. I'm sure if cameras were allowed into the seedy underbelly of the USSR during Stalin's rule or in China right now we'd be equally appalled.

We all know the media is a powerful tool or an incredible cluster fuck able to sway popular opinion.

That's my 2 cents.

FuNsTeR · Apr 16, 2011, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neshi

I'm sure if you go further back in time, some emperors/kings/whatevers 1up'd Stalin in every way. But it wasn't documented.

point is.. Hitler did it to other countries while Stalin did it in his own, which is why it isn't as notorious.

tell that to the 1 million poles he had killed and a further 1 million transported to gulags in siberia and the murder of 22,000 polish officers and intellects at Katyn after Stalin carved up poland with Hitler and countless more massecredin 1944/46, and then their was massecres in latvia, lithuania, estonia, hungary, Czechslovakia, romania, bulgaria and eastern germany ... the exact total will never be fully known

btw you left out Moa of China ... the biggest murderer of the 20th century

**synthesis204** · Apr 16, 2011, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neshi

I'm sure if you go further back in time, some emperors/kings/whatevers 1up'd Stalin in every way. But it wasn't documented.

point is.. Hitler did it to other countries while Stalin did it in his own, which is why it isn't as notorious.

Stalin DID do it to his own, but also others. His plans for modernizing the economy killed millions of Russian peasants -- but he also destroyed major swathes of Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, etc. as explained so nicely by Funster.

**dj_stick** · Apr 17, 2011, 02:23 PM

what I'm about to say might not be a popular sentiment, but from my reading over the years, a lot of the attention to such atrocities was focused on that suffered by the Jewish people under Hitler's reign, added to that is the amount of people of Jewish decent in "positions of power" in the US and other western nations that focused the attention on the plight of their kin, while demonising Hitler, and the media at the time followed suit.

Understandably their situation was different, basically the Jewish were told in no uncertain terms, "You cannot live" while the victims of Stalin's expansion were just "in the way" of his imperial aspirations, but that doesn't make those who suffered and died under Stalin any less worthy of remembrance.

dawgXdenta · Apr 17, 2011, 11:32 PM

I agree with everyone, Hitler was just the tip of the iceberg as I see it now the ice streches so far under the sea it reaches each and every one of us, not that we're as bad as Hitler but for the 1st time in history the masses have the power to steer history because knowledge is power, but we've been made impotent by laxity ,entertainment and our sensetivity to human suffereing nearly zero, our inclinations towards justice degraded towards accepting everything as 'nature' or 'genes', when the truth is our environment is something we shape and it shapes us. I'm bringing this argument home, not that we are responsible for all this mess, but collectively we can put an end to it.

For that we have to believe in that, the media on the other hand is doing a marvelous job at killing our hopes and refocusing our attention to nonsense. A deadly cycle. I wonder in this day and age where are the Ghandi's and Malcom X's and Martin Luther Kings and J.F.kennedies, not afraid to speak against the imperial powers that dominate and rape our globe. We live in a weird age, where its like we have the Sword of Might within reach, but because we have been told its useless, we are weak and incapable of anything so much just we accept it. But the sword is right here, the internet is one of its sharp edges. Books knowledge information, science technology, the power is within grasp, the will and determination however lacking.

This is what my eyes see......of every single one of us.

dawgXdenta · Apr 17, 2011, 11:53 PM

To me we live in the worst age, not because of injustice but because for the 1st time in history, we the average Joe's and Jane's have access to knowledge... but we aren't using it in the right way. I see things spiraling out of control again, its just matter of time, either us, our kids or grandkids, will witness it. I don't believe its near this other war, but there are many Stalins in the world now, many, Africa South America and China even America are all politically becoming increasingly corrupt.......its like there is a devil at work waiting to slot in another Hitler to stir things up one last time, and that war the reverberations of it will touch every land for many decades. So deep will be its scar that mankind will no longer wage war ............ i've been feeling like this for months sorry for being the sage of doom, but i think many of you see as I do, I hope we can do something positive before it comes to that...no rather I pray we do.

wtourist · Apr 18, 2011, 04:08 AM

Please note. Hitler wrote "Mien Kampf" (sp?) and meant every word of it. Then attempted to carry it out.
He was a self proclaimed Christian leader, an ideologist, a deist, a vegan, a genocidist, a euthanist, an occultist, a believer in horoscopes, and exported his aims to countries he conquered.
He, an Austrian, believed in Ayrian superiority, and the natural enslavement of all lesser mankind. And worse than enslavement.
He was crazy, and came far too close to success despite the impossibility of his victory.
Hitler sucked the world into a global war after a generation had swornnever again.
You can count his beginning in 1932 or 1934, his death in 1945.
Stalin followed the Tzars, the early Communists he purged, and as man who believed in terror and destruction for his own ends.
The fact was when people could and did oppose the communists (the US tried after WW I, as did the Poles) they had neither the troops nor wealth to expend.
The USSR after WW II was created out of Allied weakness and self interest.
Stalin almost lost WW II by Purging his officer class and believing Hitler.

You cannot Conglomerate wrongs. Ethics tend to be situational, if you don't survive you don't matter. When you lose you suffer. Expansion has its own impetus till opposed.
Cultural values matter, as does unity.
China began the last century midieval, chaotic, confused, illiterate, plagued by warlords, corruption, worse than the Tzars, and with a superiority/inferiority complexity.

If you want to follow Genocide God performed so in the bible.
When Alexander conquered the world, his tactics were old. Retaliation and scortched earth and slave traders.
The Romans knew the lessons.

The USA hasn't faced a serious foriegn enemy since the War of 1812. if that was serious. Thank God you were born here.
If you want to oppose tyrants and oppression there is no lack. never will be by past history.
BUT. THERE'S MORE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD THAN EVER BEFORE. You are one of them.

Would the world be spared great suffering if someone had stopped Jesus?
Should someone have?

The USA has a couple of unforgivable sins.
With exceptions, they don't try to kill each other. One of the unrecognized virtues of the government. Something your taxes pay for.
In the world Americans fumble and bumble but they try to help people.
Most places its take care of your own.
Most Americans feel they'd rather be Americans than someone elses ruling class AND YOU COULD BE THAT WAY TOO. Unforgiveable.

Any which who Hitler led "people like us" into murder death secret police genocide and world conquest. In a few short years. That, like Attila the Hun, should scare you.
Enough. Look it up!

dawgXdenta · Apr 18, 2011, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wtourist

Please note. Hitler wrote "Mien Kampf" (sp?) and meant every word of it. Then attempted to carry it out.
He was a self proclaimed Christian leader, an ideologist, a deist, a vegan, a genocidist, a euthanist, an occultist, a believer in horoscopes, and exported his aims to countries he conquered.
He, an Austrian, believed in Ayrian superiority, and the natural enslavement of all lesser mankind. And worse than enslavement.
He was crazy, and came far too close to success despite the impossibility of his victory.
Hitler sucked the world into a global war after a generation had swornnever again.
You can count his beginning in 1932 or 1934, his death in 1945.
Stalin followed the Tzars, the early Communists he purged, and as man who believed in terror and destruction for his own ends.
The fact was when people could and did oppose the communists (the US tried after WW I, as did the Poles) they had neither the troops nor wealth to expend.
The USSR after WW II was created out of Allied weakness and self interest.
Stalin almost lost WW II by Purging his officer class and believing Hitler.

You cannot Conglomerate wrongs. Ethics tend to be situational, if you don't survive you don't matter. When you lose you suffer. Expansion has its own impetus till opposed.
Cultural values matter, as does unity.
China began the last century midieval, chaotic, confused, illiterate, plagued by warlords, corruption, worse than the Tzars, and with a superiority/inferiority complexity.

If you want to follow Genocide God performed so in the bible.
When Alexander conquered the world, his tactics were old. Retaliation and scortched earth and slave traders.
The Romans knew the lessons.

The USA hasn't faced a serious foriegn enemy since the War of 1812. if that was serious. Thank God you were born here.
If you want to oppose tyrants and oppression there is no lack. never will be by past history.
BUT. THERE'S MORE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD THAN EVER BEFORE. You are one of them.

Would the world be spared great suffering if someone had stopped Jesus?
Should someone have?

The USA has a couple of unforgivable sins.
With exceptions, they don't try to kill each other. One of the unrecognized virtues of the government. Something your taxes pay for.
In the world Americans fumble and bumble but they try to help people.
Most places its take care of your own.
Most Americans feel they'd rather be Americans than someone elses ruling class AND YOU COULD BE THAT WAY TOO. Unforgiveable.

Any which who Hitler led "people like us" into murder death secret police genocide and world conquest. In a few short years. That, like Attila the Hun, should scare you.
Enough. Look it up!

We know the history, i'm failing 2 c ur point...........
FuNsTeR;s point as I got it was that there are many other people who have been and are evil and that Hitler is not necessarily the epitome of evil , my point was we live in an age where responsibility and power has finally come to the regular Joe, not only am I saying it, but i'm actively a member of the "Transition movement" of which there are many, which do make a difference in their own way one step at a time.

**synthesis204** · Apr 19, 2011, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wtourist

Please note. Hitler wrote "Mien Kampf" (sp?) and meant every word of it. Then attempted to carry it out.
He was a self proclaimed Christian leader, an ideologist, a deist, a vegan, a genocidist, a euthanist, an occultist, a believer in horoscopes, and exported his aims to countries he conquered.
He, an Austrian, believed in Ayrian superiority, and the natural enslavement of all lesser mankind. And worse than enslavement.
He was crazy, and came far too close to success despite the impossibility of his victory.
Hitler sucked the world into a global war after a generation had swornnever again.
You can count his beginning in 1932 or 1934, his death in 1945.
Stalin followed the Tzars, the early Communists he purged, and as man who believed in terror and destruction for his own ends.
The fact was when people could and did oppose the communists (the US tried after WW I, as did the Poles) they had neither the troops nor wealth to expend.
The USSR after WW II was created out of Allied weakness and self interest.
Stalin almost lost WW II by Purging his officer class and believing Hitler.

You cannot Conglomerate wrongs. Ethics tend to be situational, if you don't survive you don't matter. When you lose you suffer. Expansion has its own impetus till opposed.
Cultural values matter, as does unity.
China began the last century midieval, chaotic, confused, illiterate, plagued by warlords, corruption, worse than the Tzars, and with a superiority/inferiority complexity.

If you want to follow Genocide God performed so in the bible.
When Alexander conquered the world, his tactics were old. Retaliation and scortched earth and slave traders.
The Romans knew the lessons.

The USA hasn't faced a serious foriegn enemy since the War of 1812. if that was serious. Thank God you were born here.
If you want to oppose tyrants and oppression there is no lack. never will be by past history.
BUT. THERE'S MORE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD THAN EVER BEFORE. You are one of them.

Would the world be spared great suffering if someone had stopped Jesus?
Should someone have?

The USA has a couple of unforgivable sins.
With exceptions, they don't try to kill each other. One of the unrecognized virtues of the government. Something your taxes pay for.
In the world Americans fumble and bumble but they try to help people.
Most places its take care of your own.
Most Americans feel they'd rather be Americans than someone elses ruling class AND YOU COULD BE THAT WAY TOO. Unforgiveable.

Any which who Hitler led "people like us" into murder death secret police genocide and world conquest. In a few short years. That, like Attila the Hun, should scare you.
Enough. Look it up!

Your point? We know history.

Neshi · Apr 19, 2011, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by synthesis204

Stalin DID do it to his own, but also others. His plans for modernizing the economy killed millions of Russian peasants -- but he also destroyed major swathes of Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, etc. as explained so nicely by Funster.

back then they were part of the Soviet Union. That's what I mean by 'his own country'.
Germany did not annex the countries they'd overrun, but were merely a 'military presence' in the country.

**synthesis204** · Apr 21, 2011, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neshi

back then they were part of the Soviet Union. That's what I mean by 'his own country'.
Germany did not annex the countries they'd overrun, but were merely a 'military presence' in the country.

Actually, Germany did annex a number of places (french Lorraine, for example). Also, I think Poland, Latvia, and "said parts of the USSR" would like to have a word with you regarding whether they consider themselves Russian. Stalin was ultimately Russian, and forcing his will on conquered peoples does not qualify as "forcing on his own."

FuNsTeR · May 1, 2011, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by synthesis204

Actually, Germany did annex a number of places (french Lorraine, for example). Also, I think Poland, Latvia, and "said parts of the USSR" would like to have a word with you regarding whether they consider themselves Russian. Stalin was ultimately Russian, and forcing his will on conquered peoples does not qualify as "forcing on his own."

you are indeed correct synthesis204 ... i think Ukrainians would tell everyone in the west they were not russian or soviets, Ukraine's crime was being the stronghold of the "white Russian" forces fighting the bolsheviks right after the red october uprising. The Germans were seen as liberators when they entered Ukraine

btw the fella that mentioned jews .... the Bolsheviks also persecuted Jews and those that helped them ie Raoul Wallenberg a swede sent to the gulags and and later murdered for helping jews ... the jewish uprising in warsaw the russians refused to help the uprising .. several videos show german and soviet officers laughing and have a drink together ... they even denied the western allies to fly over the airspace under their control to help them by flying in supplies

Feb 15, 2011, 10:59 AM	#1
FuNsTeR Caledonian and Proud Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Darkest Ayrshire Posts: 1,305 Rep Power: 88 System Specs	Hitler's Germany not the nicest regime ... but for some reason nazi germany is seen as the pinnacle of evil .... not that i am defending nazi Germany but their were far worse regimes .. take Stalin's USSR (CCCP) killed over 25 million of his OWN people ... forced relocation of entire ethnic groups from one part of the soviet union to another ... the entire population living in fear of being the next victims of stalins brutal regime .... 7 million deaths in Ukraine before WW2 had even started ..... as churchill stated we have sided with 1 devil to defeat another .... history has proven it was a fatal mistake ... we should have fought our own war and allowed nazi germany and the soviet union destroy each other ... instead of allowing the soviet union to grow stronger and more brutal . then their was Chairman Mao of The Peoples Republic of China under the auspice of the cultural revolution 45 million chinese perished ... even still in modern China people are murdered for speaking out of turn or sent to work camps to die with no hope of release __________________ "They say when you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear satanic messages ..... but that's nothing, if you play it forward it will install Windows"

Feb 15, 2011, 08:45 PM	#2
Neshi S.N.A.F.U. Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Wellington, NZ Posts: 3,386 Rep Power: 183 System Specs	Re: Hitler's Germany your point? __________________ If one does not attach himself to people and desire, never shall his heart be broken. But then, does he ever truly live? Life is just too damn short for if's and maybe's

Feb 15, 2011, 10:45 PM	#4
synthesis204 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 1,177 Rep Power: 99 System Specs	Re: Hitler's Germany Excuse me? Stalin's SU was FAR worse off. Stalin killed over twice as many people and ruled over twice as long as Hitler. The Great Silence put in place after Stalin's death gripped the country and ruined families. Hitler's victims and perpetrators got closure very soon after his regime with the Nuremberg Trials, while Stalin's victims had nothing for decades. Hitler is the most overblown evil crybaby ever. PS: My honors senior thesis was on the Russian Great Silence in comparison to the Holocaust, so... >_> __________________ Donate the spare computing power of your PC to help to cure alzheimers, ALS, huntington's, parkinson's disease and cancer: Fold for HH!

Feb 15, 2011, 10:47 PM	#5
blibbax What does this do? Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 4,262 Rep Power: 254 System Specs	Re: Hitler's Germany Describing Hitler's vilification as overblown might be going a little far, but yes, we do hate him more than other evil people in history. It's probably due to wartime propaganda. __________________ Donate the spare computing power of your PC to help to cure Alzheimer's, ALS, Huntington's, Parkinson's disease and cancer: Fold for HH!

Feb 15, 2011, 11:51 PM	#6
Neshi S.N.A.F.U. Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Wellington, NZ Posts: 3,386 Rep Power: 183 System Specs	Re: Hitler's Germany hmmm.. I don't hate Hitler. Hate is such a heavy word... He has done some good stuff for the country as well, although that naturally withers when put next to his evil deeds. Stalin was pretty bad, but the reason nobody seems to really know about that is that it is not in the middle of europe and no other countries were involved. __________________ If one does not attach himself to people and desire, never shall his heart be broken. But then, does he ever truly live? Life is just too damn short for if's and maybe's

Feb 16, 2011, 12:45 PM	#8
blibbax What does this do? Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 4,262 Rep Power: 254 System Specs	Re: Hitler's Germany It's not only the youth of Germany that are reminded of their country's dark past. I live in the UK, which hasn't even been mentioned as an evil place so far, but I spent plenty of time in school listening to and reading about talk of the slave trade, Britain's failure to bomb the concentration camps, colonial exploitation, the inhumane fire bombing of Dresden, etc. __________________ Donate the spare computing power of your PC to help to cure Alzheimer's, ALS, Huntington's, Parkinson's disease and cancer: Fold for HH!

Feb 16, 2011, 01:15 PM	#10
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	Re: Hitler's Germany Which President in America do you wish to blame for nearly wiping out the culture of the native people? We really did not see body counts until the beginning of the 19th century, but as so many mentioned, the regimes of the former dictators are replete with stories of entire towns, cultures, infrastructure completely wiped away by the "bad guys". I think it is easier to compare former Pres. Roosevelt and contemporary leaders of his time. We all know that Diplomacy and politics were the province of amateurs and royalty prior to WWII, with the exception of the United States. Two of three very powerful leaders rose to the world scene in 1930s, Stalin being a product of political turmoil of Russia. One was Franklin Delano Roosevelt and the other was Adolf Hitler. Both these leaders had many similarities and differences. The similarities between Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Adolf Hitler are as follows. First, both were leaders by symbolic and appeal. FDR used were freedom symbols such as the bald eagle and used kind words to get people to support his ideas. Hitler and his Nazi party used the swastika and other militaristic symbols and used strong words in his speeches. Of course both wanted to improve their countries. FDR wanted to fix the economy and Hitler wanted Germany regain its honor. Third, both were leaders during WWII, and struggled with sensitive matters of political alliances, occupation and creating temporary relationships with Russia and Stalin. In fact, regardless of which country you governed in Europe or the western world, you had to deal with Stalin. China on the other hand, still fought a war with the Nationalist Chinese. It was difficult to choose sides, but within the context of world events, the U.S. were occasionally "the bad guys". __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor." Last edited by Falstaff; Feb 16, 2011 at 01:21 PM.

Feb 21, 2011, 06:12 PM	#13
synthesis204 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 1,177 Rep Power: 99 System Specs	Re: Hitler's Germany I find it stupid to bring in the UK or the US in this discussion, really. Every country in history has its faults, but the USSR and Nazi Germany were among the worst. The US had its firebombings in Nam, the nuke in Japan (which actually saved lives, ironically...), the Trail of Tears, Bear Creek Massacre, Japanese internment, and many other issues. We learn about these alongside UK and French failures in public school. However, even with their failures, they are among the more/most successful countries. To quote a famous man, democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time. The point I was trying to make is that Hitler is considered the epitome of evil in many places, while Stalin 1up'd him in almost every way. __________________ Donate the spare computing power of your PC to help to cure alzheimers, ALS, huntington's, parkinson's disease and cancer: Fold for HH!

Feb 22, 2011, 11:05 AM	#14
Neshi S.N.A.F.U. Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Wellington, NZ Posts: 3,386 Rep Power: 183 System Specs	Re: Hitler's Germany I'm sure if you go further back in time, some emperors/kings/whatevers 1up'd Stalin in every way. But it wasn't documented. point is.. Hitler did it to other countries while Stalin did it in his own, which is why it isn't as notorious. __________________ If one does not attach himself to people and desire, never shall his heart be broken. But then, does he ever truly live? Life is just too damn short for if's and maybe's

Apr 17, 2011, 11:32 PM	#19
dawgXdenta HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Gabz Posts: 1,995 Rep Power: 135 System Specs	Re: Hitler's Germany I agree with everyone, Hitler was just the tip of the iceberg as I see it now the ice streches so far under the sea it reaches each and every one of us, not that we're as bad as Hitler but for the 1st time in history the masses have the power to steer history because knowledge is power, but we've been made impotent by laxity ,entertainment and our sensetivity to human suffereing nearly zero, our inclinations towards justice degraded towards accepting everything as 'nature' or 'genes', when the truth is our environment is something we shape and it shapes us. I'm bringing this argument home, not that we are responsible for all this mess, but collectively we can put an end to it. For that we have to believe in that, the media on the other hand is doing a marvelous job at killing our hopes and refocusing our attention to nonsense. A deadly cycle. I wonder in this day and age where are the Ghandi's and Malcom X's and Martin Luther Kings and J.F.kennedies, not afraid to speak against the imperial powers that dominate and rape our globe. We live in a weird age, where its like we have the Sword of Might within reach, but because we have been told its useless, we are weak and incapable of anything so much just we accept it. But the sword is right here, the internet is one of its sharp edges. Books knowledge information, science technology, the power is within grasp, the will and determination however lacking. This is what my eyes see......of every single one of us. __________________ Today's world is of public opinion and the fates of nations are determined through its pressure. Once the tools for building public opinion are obtained, everything that you asked for can be done. --- Osama bin Laden when relating how global media has the minds of the masses. ______________________________________ http://dawgxdenta.deviantart.com/gallery/ Last edited by dawgXdenta; Apr 17, 2011 at 11:56 PM.

Apr 17, 2011, 11:53 PM	#20
dawgXdenta HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Gabz Posts: 1,995 Rep Power: 135 System Specs	Re: Hitler's Germany To me we live in the worst age, not because of injustice but because for the 1st time in history, we the average Joe's and Jane's have access to knowledge... but we aren't using it in the right way. I see things spiraling out of control again, its just matter of time, either us, our kids or grandkids, will witness it. I don't believe its near this other war, but there are many Stalins in the world now, many, Africa South America and China even America are all politically becoming increasingly corrupt.......its like there is a devil at work waiting to slot in another Hitler to stir things up one last time, and that war the reverberations of it will touch every land for many decades. So deep will be its scar that mankind will no longer wage war ............ i've been feeling like this for months sorry for being the sage of doom, but i think many of you see as I do, I hope we can do something positive before it comes to that...no rather I pray we do. __________________ Today's world is of public opinion and the fates of nations are determined through its pressure. Once the tools for building public opinion are obtained, everything that you asked for can be done. --- Osama bin Laden when relating how global media has the minds of the masses. ______________________________________ http://dawgxdenta.deviantart.com/gallery/

Apr 18, 2011, 04:08 AM	#21
wtourist wtourist Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: waterbury ct Posts: 3 Rep Power: 0	Re: Hitler's Germany Please note. Hitler wrote "Mien Kampf" (sp?) and meant every word of it. Then attempted to carry it out. He was a self proclaimed Christian leader, an ideologist, a deist, a vegan, a genocidist, a euthanist, an occultist, a believer in horoscopes, and exported his aims to countries he conquered. He, an Austrian, believed in Ayrian superiority, and the natural enslavement of all lesser mankind. And worse than enslavement. He was crazy, and came far too close to success despite the impossibility of his victory. Hitler sucked the world into a global war after a generation had swornnever again. You can count his beginning in 1932 or 1934, his death in 1945. Stalin followed the Tzars, the early Communists he purged, and as man who believed in terror and destruction for his own ends. The fact was when people could and did oppose the communists (the US tried after WW I, as did the Poles) they had neither the troops nor wealth to expend. The USSR after WW II was created out of Allied weakness and self interest. Stalin almost lost WW II by Purging his officer class and believing Hitler. You cannot Conglomerate wrongs. Ethics tend to be situational, if you don't survive you don't matter. When you lose you suffer. Expansion has its own impetus till opposed. Cultural values matter, as does unity. China began the last century midieval, chaotic, confused, illiterate, plagued by warlords, corruption, worse than the Tzars, and with a superiority/inferiority complexity. If you want to follow Genocide God performed so in the bible. When Alexander conquered the world, his tactics were old. Retaliation and scortched earth and slave traders. The Romans knew the lessons. The USA hasn't faced a serious foriegn enemy since the War of 1812. if that was serious. Thank God you were born here. If you want to oppose tyrants and oppression there is no lack. never will be by past history. BUT. THERE'S MORE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD THAN EVER BEFORE. You are one of them. Would the world be spared great suffering if someone had stopped Jesus? Should someone have? The USA has a couple of unforgivable sins. With exceptions, they don't try to kill each other. One of the unrecognized virtues of the government. Something your taxes pay for. In the world Americans fumble and bumble but they try to help people. Most places its take care of your own. Most Americans feel they'd rather be Americans than someone elses ruling class AND YOU COULD BE THAT WAY TOO. Unforgiveable. Any which who Hitler led "people like us" into murder death secret police genocide and world conquest. In a few short years. That, like Attila the Hun, should scare you. Enough. Look it up!