dawgXdenta

What do you think is it a little too ummm convenient public opinion and faith in the U.S government is pretty darn low, and Obama the political messiah has caught the bad guy ? Restoring faith in the red white and blue?
Oh and chucked him into the sea, lets not forget the sea

Or is he just dead and all our problems with 'Al Qaeda ' are gone

Or like me you just dont know, u'd wanna see his diabetic kidneys before you believe it .

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Today's world is of public opinion and the fates of nations are determined through its pressure. Once the tools for building public opinion are obtained, everything that you asked for can be done. --- Osama bin Laden when relating how global media has the minds of the masses.
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blibbax

I can see this being boringly similar to the other Osama thread, but I voted yes. Don't take that to mean that I think that it AQ problems are over or that we know all the facts, however.

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[hobo]eclipse

i dont know, and neither do you

Judas

Without seeing him first hand alive and then personally watching him being shot (video won't do)..... i'll remain on the fence.

You have more officials that actually have a decent amount of facts they have at their hands saying he was dead 4 to 8 years ago.... Even recorded by a official on C-SPAN many years ago about his conditioin...

and then there is the news and president and political figures that general couldn't wipe their own ass without lieing about first and then getting someone else to do the dirty work for them......

Is he dead? Evidence suggest yes

Did a recent military operation do it? Evidence and credible sources say not at all

Did he die due to natural causes? Evidence says yes.. Kidney failure and having to have dialises machines on hand everywhere he went..... kinda makes him an obvious target.

Is it possible he is still alive? Anything is possible... he could be...

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blibbax

That's a fair point, but this kind of reasoning can get you stuck in a real whole.

All you know for certain is that something exists, which you know because you are aware. Anything that you are aware of - that that something is you, that that something is a human, that the world you know is real - could be a complex, Matrix style deception and you'd never realise.

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Judas

accurately put

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OldBuzzard

I'm thinking that they finally got him.

To be THIS public about it, means that they not only killed him, but have PLENTY of evidence to back up the claim. i.e. Photos, DNA, fingerprints, and most likely an autopsy performed before they tossed his carcass overboard into the ocean, etc.

It's just TOO public to not be true.

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When looking for a reason as to why things go wrong, never rule out sheer STUPIDITY

Judas

Just like the JFK assassination.... it was highly public..... and everything occured in an extremely short span of time too...

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BlueMak

Man...stop trolling.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

Judas

i'm not.. i'm stating a fact....

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Judas

I knew "burial" at sea sounded utterly retarded and infactual... Specially considering his supposed location..... distance from the claimed place he was tossed int othe sea..... and then confirming the strange and convienent timing of any information that says that it's tradition for such a thing to occur.... conflicting information per usual...

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blibbax

"One conclusion that could be drawn from this is..."

Btw, this is disappointingly sourceless, but nonetheless an interesting read: The 10 key myths about Osama bin Laden | World news | guardian.co.uk

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Fantasma

Well, I have voted "yes". I think that if they didn't know for sure that he is dead, Obama would not have confirmed it as any rumour saying that he is alive would be terrible for Obama and the next election.

Anyway, we have to be prepared for a possible revenge from AQ activists.

Judas

yeah that is fairly baseless.... the only things backing up some of whats said there is initial media broadcasts....*sigh*

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Mousey

I think that's missing one very VERY crucial thing to be considered. The soldiers that were brave enough to go after Bin Laden on this mission must've seriously hated the fer... Look at it from their point of view, They've just served not just their country, But the families of every single one of Bin Laden's victims, As well as a lot of countries under threat around the world, You've killed a man that's causing your country, A country you fight to protect, a hell of a lot of trouble.

Would you seriously want to take the time to respectfully and methodically bury the body?

....

And what's all this horseshit in that video about a "Former CIA Ally", I knew that already but look at this way, Britain used to be firmly locked in War with germany back in the 40's, Are we now? No... Things change... Ever had a friend insult you and you didn't want to be their friend anymore? Yeah... You've just basically discovered what politics is all about then.

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Neshi

if that is the case, it wasn't a real friend. Certainly not one that you would give modern weapons.
Real friends don't just give up their friendship over an insult or whatever trivial. There must be a real knife in the back, like one that kills you, for somebody to just give up a friendship. But I guess that's how people view a platonic acquaintances nowadays, as real true friendship. that's how people get 200+ "friends" on facebook.

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If one does not attach himself to people and desire, never shall his heart be broken. But then, does he ever truly live?

Life is just too damn short for if's and maybe's

BlueMak

Mousey is of course correct. If you believe that all friendships are for life, then you have been either extremely lucky or don't know what is going on.
I will mention another example of the scale Mousey mentioned. USSR. They had alliance of convenience with BOTH Germany at first and the Western allies second. We all (hopefully) know how good both of them were in the long run. EVEN if Osama was funded in the late 80's by the CIA, that means nothing. Alliances come and go depending on interests and desires.

Do I believe that Osama is dead? Probably, although it would make far more sense to arrest him and then get rid of him. It would be a bad strategic move to kill him so soon if you could take him alive. Why lose the chance to interrogate the leader of your main enemy force? Much more to gain from taking him alive and keeping it secret, then at some point getting rid of him and claim he died in a whatever.
That doesn't mean that he didn't indeed die in the raid. Perhaps an overzealous soldier pulled the trigger, or perhaps the plan was indeed to kill him there. Bad decisions are made every day. No one is perfect. I have no reason to believe that Osama is not dead or he is about to die. Basically at worst, he is as good as dead for the rest of the world.

As to him being in that building, I believe that most probably, he was protected by the (part or whole) military of Pakistan. FFS, they funded for many years the Taliban, and as long as USA has as enemy the Taliban and Al Quakaria, Pakistan is safe from losing support by the USA. For Pakistan the biggest threat is and will continue to be, India. They are afraid that if the USA is completely behind India alone, they will have serious problems in the long run. But now, USA needs them due to the war. On the other hand, why risk killing one of your main men, Osama. Yes, you could just kill him, but that would be risky as more info about your (military establishment of Pakistan) involvement there could come out.

Having said that, it wouldn't be unheard of and impossible for Osama to live in that building all this time, in secrecy from everyone. Stranger things have happened.


What I find funny though is how one can refuse to accept anything coming as positive for the USA, because of personal hatred or whatever, but blindly follow and believe dubious sources because it fits his paranoia.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

OldBuzzard

Taking him alive was the LAST thing that they wanted.

As far as the burial at sea pissing off the Muslims, who gives a rat's ass? They are going to be pissed off no matter WHAT we do. Our very EXISTENCE as non-Muslims pisses them off.

At least with OBL feeding the fishes, there won't be a burial site where they can build a shrine and use it for propaganda purposes.

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When looking for a reason as to why things go wrong, never rule out sheer STUPIDITY

Judas

You missing one critical point in all of this..

Osama bin laden was and still has never been directly involved in anything involving the united states let alone any other major country through a fashion of factual evidence to suggest it.


If i blame you for something.. without any evidence at all, never presenting evidence at all, and any evidence i did present was easily countered with additional facts that makes my evidence complete and utterly false..... but i managed to keep repeating that on and on and on and on and on and on for years and years... and to tell the military personel they are in search of you non-stop.......

Does that make it any more "right" that they just bust in and kill you then cheer and laugh and cry with joy, insulting your dead corpse and mutilating it against yours or your families wishes?

Lets not forget that technically this isn't war..... this is straight up assassination.

Furthermore, there is increasing evidence that they were even more wrong about it yet they just sluff it off


Frankly i thought we were more civilized human beings... that could think...

EVEN if they just barge in knowing full well no one had a weapon of any kind and killed him... How does it make sense of throw him into the sea... 1000 miles from where he was killed.... claim to have evidence of him being dead and yet manage to not present it...

Further discreptancies is the meer fact that emediately after the whole thing took place... the photographs that were released and not by the whitehouse has thrown the story into even more doubt...

To many oddities.... to many false stories and lies .... there is no benefit to beleive any word of it.... other then to take it meerly a referrence point to attempt to confirm later or deny depending on what happens afterwords...

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BlueMak

Hitler never gassed anyone either. Was Hitler innocent of the deaths at the concentration camps?
For some of you anti americans, Bush and co are responsible for many deaths. Did they pull the trigger?

You speak of lack of evidence when for all your claims you provide no evidence.
Judas you are full of it.

EDIT: Don't even answer that. I just put you on the ignore list. I am tired of your constant BS.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

Judas

i can answer it all i want.

Hitler was fair and square known to be directly involved in those very things.... as there is clear documenation that he was involved in the decision making and various other things.. he may not have pushed the button, but he still gave the orders or had appointed people to do it.

Comparing apples and oranges... not a good idea anyways.

The various evidences available about osama and his ties are limited..

when even the supposed hijackers are questionable..... the surrounding events are debateable to no end... specially when some of the claimed hijackers that died..... 2 of which confirmed they are alive...

so go figure..

Problem is that both are theories... but one has more evidence and credibility then the other.

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Tyrsonswood

If bin Laden wasn't dead, he would have posted a video by now..... Case Closed!

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Judas

osama hasn't posted a video for years...... including the videos that were "made" in the last 10 years....

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Neshi

I really don't know what the big deal is, whether he is dead or not.
That whole thing is like the Lernaean Hydra, cut one head of and three will grow back.

__________________
If one does not attach himself to people and desire, never shall his heart be broken. But then, does he ever truly live?

Life is just too damn short for if's and maybe's

blibbax

Very true Neshi.

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[hobo]eclipse

who ever got tossed in the water was anchored down with obama 2012 swag

Senor_Mota

I'm an optimist, so I like to think he got his 72 virgins, all dressed in Ronald McDonald attire from head to toe, saying "This is heaven. Cheeseburgers and pussy abound. But since you were such a dick, we shrunk yours down. All you can do is sit around, get fat, and stroke your mosquito penis to the sight of Capitalism's dying throes".

Sounds familiar, doesn't it? Maybe we are more similar than we think...

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dawgXdenta

WORD , besides i dont fear men with box cutters I fear men who send other men to war for wall street.

Obama: "The first thing I will do is bring back our troops" 2007 election run

Obama:"We need more troops in Afganistan, to stabilize the area" 2010

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Today's world is of public opinion and the fates of nations are determined through its pressure. Once the tools for building public opinion are obtained, everything that you asked for can be done. --- Osama bin Laden when relating how global media has the minds of the masses.
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http://dawgxdenta.deviantart.com/gallery/

Callandor

So am I the only one who still believes Osama is alive and well somewhere?

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dawgXdenta

Its hard to tell....... but there really is no need for the media to start saying they found porn in his room , i mean really how many lies are they gonna toss our way

__________________
Today's world is of public opinion and the fates of nations are determined through its pressure. Once the tools for building public opinion are obtained, everything that you asked for can be done. --- Osama bin Laden when relating how global media has the minds of the masses.
______________________________________
http://dawgxdenta.deviantart.com/gallery/