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American soldiers VS the war in Iraq

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Old May 18, 2011, 09:40 AM   #1
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American soldiers VS the war in Iraq
I must say, I completely agree.
I have no doubt some of you will think them deserters and pussies and what not, but they are completely right.



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Old May 18, 2011, 12:52 PM   #2
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Re: American soldiers VS the war in Iraq
While neither of us have the full facts, I'd have to say that I agree that in hindsight the invasion of Iraq was a terrible idea, and a terrible idea badly executed.

What now, though?
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Old May 18, 2011, 12:55 PM Threadstarter Thread Starter   #3
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Re: American soldiers VS the war in Iraq
retreat. Staying there is not the only option.
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Old May 18, 2011, 12:59 PM   #4
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Re: American soldiers VS the war in Iraq
A sudden retreat might be even worse than continued occupation, and would certainly be worse than never having invaded at all.

Sure, immediately pulling out might be in the best interests of the occupying forces right now, but don't you think we owe the Iraqi people some kind of way out after everything we've put them through (we being the US, Britain and the other allied occupying forces)? I don't know how to achieve that, or what would achieve what results, and neither do you, but suddenly turning our back on the whole situation seems immoral to me.
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Old May 18, 2011, 04:11 PM   #5
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Re: American soldiers VS the war in Iraq
isn't it all reminicent of the nixon campaign?
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Old May 18, 2011, 04:15 PM   #6
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Re: American soldiers VS the war in Iraq
Btw, Vetrans from the iraq war are on the united states Threat list Homeland Security on guard for 'right-wing extremists'
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Old May 18, 2011, 09:51 PM Threadstarter Thread Starter   #7
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Re: American soldiers VS the war in Iraq
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A sudden retreat might be even worse than continued occupation, and would certainly be worse than never having invaded at all.

Sure, immediately pulling out might be in the best interests of the occupying forces right now, but don't you think we owe the Iraqi people some kind of way out after everything we've put them through (we being the US, Britain and the other allied occupying forces)? I don't know how to achieve that, or what would achieve what results, and neither do you, but suddenly turning our back on the whole situation seems immoral to me.
I think the Iraqi people would rejoice seeing the invaders leave to be honest.
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Old May 18, 2011, 11:46 PM   #8
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Re: American soldiers VS the war in Iraq
sometimes the best thing to do is pickup and leave, because having the cluts that wants to "help" around destroying everything and causing problems.... just isn't worth it even if they do occasional do something right.

While i don't think they should just cut ties altogether... it might be in the end seen as the best solution...

Other people from other countries would be more suitable and safe there..... Sometimes REAL intended help just isn't wanted by a few people because frankly.. and with good reason.... they were never invited in the first place... even with a few that may have thought it was a good idea before.
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Old May 19, 2011, 04:22 AM Threadstarter Thread Starter   #9
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Re: American soldiers VS the war in Iraq
exactly
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Old May 20, 2011, 09:47 AM   #10
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Re: American soldiers VS the war in Iraq
politics is a GLOBAL SHAM nothing more nothing less, why we give our lives for other peoples profits is beyond me, you get home without an arm or a leg and they talk about reducing benefits for the VETS i mean really....
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Old May 20, 2011, 05:35 PM   #11
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Re: American soldiers VS the war in Iraq
indeed
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Old May 25, 2011, 10:20 AM   #12
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Re: American soldiers VS the war in Iraq
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Old May 25, 2011, 11:04 AM   #13
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Re: American soldiers VS the war in Iraq
Since the initial surge, the U.S. has stepped down its involvement in Libya markedly.

It's Britain and France doing the heavy lifting at this stage - both nations have recently dispatched large helicopter carriers (HMS Ocean and the Tonnerre) to the coast laden with Apaches (and French & British equivalents), signalling the largest escalation in the conflict since it began. Britain is the only nation to have fired cruise missiles since the first week. Britain and France are the only nations with military personnel on the ground in Libya.

I'd say Obama played his hand extraordinarily well - providing the backing required to make NATO allies comfortable that the initial surge wasn't too risky then leaving it to those who wanted to get involved in the first place (Britain & France) now that U.S. backing is no longer needed.

If the U.S., as that picture suggests, did start a war with Libya, they've already left it.
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Old May 25, 2011, 02:35 PM Threadstarter Thread Starter   #14
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Re: American soldiers VS the war in Iraq
shouldn't have stuck their fingers in there in the first place. Doesn't matter how short or how far that finger went in there, the fact remains it did.
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Old May 25, 2011, 02:46 PM   #15
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Re: American soldiers VS the war in Iraq
It's difficult to agree or disagree with that opinion unless you expand on it a little, Neshi.
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Old May 26, 2011, 12:49 AM Threadstarter Thread Starter   #16
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Re: American soldiers VS the war in Iraq
in other words.. they shouldn't have interfered. I know america thinks it has the obligation to help humanity and when people are quibbling (starting wars) they should interfere and try to come to a peaceful solution (by sending soldiers.. meh).
They should learn to just leave people be and let them repair their own problems.. USA has got plenty of shit to straighten out in their own country first..
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Old May 26, 2011, 01:11 AM   #17
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Re: American soldiers VS the war in Iraq
Straightening out shit at home and abroad are not, for most countries, and certainly not for the U.S.A., mutually exclusive.

It might not be the U.S.A. or Britain or France's responsibility to prevent easily preventable massacres in foreign nations, but I think it's pretty hard to justify sitting back and watching it happen. If you're going to have principles (such as "every human life is of equal worth" and "democracy is a good thing") you have to be ready to stand up for them.

I'm not saying that military intervention is always a good thing. I think that Libya is a rare case in which it made sense.
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Old May 26, 2011, 02:20 PM Threadstarter Thread Starter   #18
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Re: American soldiers VS the war in Iraq
I disagree
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Old May 26, 2011, 04:54 PM   #19
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Re: American soldiers VS the war in Iraq
Ok
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Old May 26, 2011, 09:49 PM Threadstarter Thread Starter   #20
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Re: American soldiers VS the war in Iraq
just kind of hypocritical and ironic that the USA thinks it can straighten out a foreign country, if it can't even keep their own country problem free.
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Old May 26, 2011, 11:55 PM   #21
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Re: American soldiers VS the war in Iraq
Different kinds of problems. The U.S. government doesn't massacre its civilians.
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Old May 27, 2011, 01:05 PM Threadstarter Thread Starter   #22
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Re: American soldiers VS the war in Iraq
doesn't matter.
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Old May 27, 2011, 02:16 PM   #23
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Re: American soldiers VS the war in Iraq
In that case, is it wrong for any individual to help any other?

Would it be wrong for me to pull a drowning man out of a pond because, hell, I've plenty of my own problems - it'd be outright hypocritical for me to assume that I know what's best for a drowning man?
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Old May 27, 2011, 04:21 PM   #24
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Re: American soldiers VS the war in Iraq
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Different kinds of problems. The U.S. government doesn't massacre its civilians.
lol
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Old May 27, 2011, 04:49 PM   #25
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Re: American soldiers VS the war in Iraq
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In that case, is it wrong for any individual to help any other?

Would it be wrong for me to pull a drowning man out of a pond because, hell, I've plenty of my own problems - it'd be outright hypocritical for me to assume that I know what's best for a drowning man?
the chatter is not about extending your hand to a fellow human, the chatter is about nation building. its sad to see you nit pick and not be able to register a bit of common sense. Enjoy your bruised throat on the long climb to your top.
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Old May 27, 2011, 04:52 PM   #26
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Re: American soldiers VS the war in Iraq
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the chatter is not about extending your hand to a fellow human, the chatter is about nation building. its sad to see you nit pick and not be able to register a bit of common sense. Enjoy your bruised throat on the long climb to your top.
Pretty much..

It's different to actually go in with legitimate concern for the well being of the people..

not for the interest of putting in your own form of government with your own vested agenda and interests OVER the people.. not by the people..

And it's another thing to run over to the pond to help someone by point a gun at them and screaming at them to stop drowning. Kinda rediculious.
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Old May 27, 2011, 05:15 PM   #27
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Re: American soldiers VS the war in Iraq
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the chatter is not about extending your hand to a fellow human, the chatter is about nation building.
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Pretty much..

It's different to actually go in with legitimate concern for the well being of the people..

not for the interest of putting in your own form of government with your own vested agenda and interests OVER the people.. not by the people..

And it's another thing to run over to the pond to help someone by point a gun at them and screaming at them to stop drowning. Kinda rediculious.
I agree with all that. But Neshi's argument, as far as I could see it, was not based on these legitimate concerns of selfish intervention, or assistance via coercion.

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Originally Posted by Neshi View Post
in other words.. they shouldn't have interfered. I know america thinks it has the obligation to help humanity and when people are quibbling (starting wars) they should interfere and try to come to a peaceful solution (by sending soldiers.. meh).
They should learn to just leave people be and let them repair their own problems.. USA has got plenty of shit to straighten out in their own country first..
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Originally Posted by Neshi View Post
just kind of hypocritical and ironic that the USA thinks it can straighten out a foreign country, if it can't even keep their own country problem free.
It was based on the alleged hypocrisy of stepping in to fix a problem abroad when you have your own share of problems at home. My response was to Neshi's argument in these two posts, not to the other concerns that you (Hobo & Judas) mention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by [hobo]eclipse View Post
its sad to see you nit pick and not be able to register a bit of common sense. Enjoy your bruised throat on the long climb to your top.
I guess I do nitpick, but if people are going to make bold statements I do think that they have a responsibility to have thought them through and be able to demonstrate that when their point or its implications aren't quite clear. I'd also say that the post of mine that you (Hobo) quoted was by no means nitpicking. It was a fairly major point.

I also don't think that I'm displaying a lack of common sense, or a naivety here. Note my first post in this thread. If anything, I think I may be the voice of rationality and pragmatism in this thread. But then I would think that.

Also, my long climb to the top of what?
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Old May 27, 2011, 09:20 PM   #28
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Re: American soldiers VS the war in Iraq
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Also, my long climb to the top of what?

The dung heap?????
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However, an extremely large number of electrons were rather annoyed.
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Old May 27, 2011, 10:47 PM   #29
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Re: American soldiers VS the war in Iraq
Getting to the top of a dung heap is totally not worth a bruised throat.
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