FuNsTeR

Wesley Clark.

Hes a nutter, and a lot of people are touting him as the guy to beat Bush at the election.

Anyone who knows about Wesley Clark, but Americans don't seem to know this, knows that he's the guy who tried to start World War Three.

Remember the Kosovo action, when NATO sent troops into the Balkans to stop the Serbs from killing any more people? well, Wesley Clark was th C-in-C of NATO forces in the Balkans.

Pristina airport was the fastest way in and out of the way of the NATO advance, and the Russians (who are the Serbs Allies) took over the airport. NATO was surprised, but this was a more diplomatic than military problem, so the British (the main units in the are were Brirtish) troops stopped short.

Wesley Clark was furious and, get this, he ORDERED the British general to ATTACK the 200 Russian soldiers who wee holding the airport.

This guy actually ordered British troops to massacre Russian soldiers who were there in a peacekeeping capacity.

The British general told him to go f*ck himself.

Undeterred, Wesley Clark went to an American unit in Macedonia and told him to chopper in his troops and to assault the airport. Fortunately the American was more scared of the British General than he was of clark, so the Yank told Wesley Clark to f*ck off too.

Once more, and seemingly determined to start a war, Clark goes back to the British comander and orders him to use TANKS to attack the Russians.

Once more the British general told Clark to f*ck off and get a grip.

In fact, Clark actually says in his biography, 'The British general turned to me and said, "I'm not starting World War Three for you".

Shortly after this, Clinton was informed of Clarke's lunacy and fired him.

A few months ago I was reading an article about the incident, and they were interviewing the Russian general in charge of the Pristina Airport. Turns out that the Russians had several thousand elite airborne troops just waiting to go in and slaughter any NATO units that attacked the Russian soldiers at Pristina.

And This nutcase, Wesley Clark, is a major player for the next presidential candidacy.

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"They say when you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear satanic messages ..... but that's nothing, if you play it forward it will install Windows"

ToshiroOC

The way I heard that one was the British general was ordered to "take control" of the airport, not necesarily "attack" the Russian soldiers. Regardless, he does seem like a bit of a loose cannon, but the Democratic party is frantic enough to get Bush and his catastrophic failures in the domestic and foreign arenas out of office that they'll throw everything they can behind Clark if he wins the primaries...

I'm hoping a Dean/Clark ticket results, since Dean would be a good president, and Clark would lend him the moderate perspective and military background he would probably need to win in the national elections.

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[color=White]Peace be with you, Joe.[/color]
Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

JavaFox

I am seriously considering voting for Wesley Clark instead of Bush. I'll have to learn a little more about Clark's domestic platform (surprisingly little is known about this man's platform), but any man that can conduct a war without a single American casualty AND piss off the Clinton administration* cannot be a bad choice.

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* Clark was an interventionalist who supported sending US troops to Rwanda and wanted to deploy a stronger force in Kosovo. He's no dove. To rally American support, he circumvented military brass and appeared in the press. Defense Secretary Cohen reportedly told Clark to "get your fucking face off of TV." I don't support insubordination, but the Clinton regime was so pathetic in regards to security that I can forgive it a little.

Falstaff

Java...Wesley Clark has been in the Clinton house for along time...consider that..

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JavaFox

Yes, but like I said, Clark is no dove. He supported actions (land forces in the Balkans, US intervention in Rwanda) that most people --including the Joint Chiefs of Staff-- in the Clinton administration couldn't stomach. He is in many ways not unlike Rumsfeld in that he is not as risk-averse as his peers. As a Democrat he may miss out on many military voters, but I personally feel he is a centrist at worst and a hidden Republican at best. I would not be upset if Clark wins over Bush.

And unlike most of the Democratic candidates, Clark's got the stars and stripes to back up his criticism of the Bush administration.

Falstaff

I enjoy the Rumsfeld analogy..it is appropriate for sure..I think he chooses democrats because he represents what they want..but secretly he is niether...not a politician...no
he is a warrior

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Smoothdrive

What's Clark's general view on international politics than ?

peace and cooperation or war and domination ?

I liked Clinton much much better than Bush on the international stage.

Can't judge on your internal issue's.

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JavaFox

Clark is an international liberal. He believes in the worth of international cooperation and organizations. He views the war on Iraq as a distraction and would have rather had the Bush administration work to strengthen international cooperation to fight terrorism instead of moving unilaterally.

He is, as I've said before, no dove, and believes strongly in intervention. Following 9-11, Clark contacted the Team Bush to become part of the administration. He found himself snubbed by the administration instead. He has joked --although some have suggested that it isn't a joke at all-- that he would be a Republican if Karl Rove had returned his calls.

There is no credible movement in America that supports "war and domination." The concept of an American empire is a myth.

JavaFox

Man, now that I've looked through your post more closely, I see that it is full of unbelievable inaccuracies. I wonder where you copy and pasted this from.

Clark is the man most responsible for getting the US involved in starting to clean up the mess that Europeans were perfectly content to ignore. Clark was fired because he, unlike the pitiful losers in his administration, wanted to do something in Kosovo, so he talked to the American public directly through the press. Cohen told him to "get [his] fucking face off TV." When we were done fighting YAEW*, Clark was relieved of command and the Pentagon leaked the story to the Washington Post (confirmed by Newsweek, whose parent company is the Washington Post), knowing that Clark would appeal to the White House. Due to the leak, he was unable to get in touch with officials. It was a dirty way to fire a great man; a man who fought a real humanitarian war without a single American causualty and on 2 hours of sleep a night.

He was not "fired for being a loony" as you so simplistically and slanderously put it. He was fired because he was spontaneous, disrespectful, and had vision. A bit like MacArthur, really.


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* Yet Another European War

Smoothdrive

How convenient to address former USSR strugles as YAEW

By War and domination i meant the course Bush has chosen..US being independ and more powerfull doing whatever they want attacking whoever they want, not making any deals with any country or organisation not signing agreements made by the Clinton adminstration just staying with the UN for the looks but ignoring it all together in fact.


So for now Clark would have my vote over Bush..than again i can't think of a candidate that i would not favour over Bush ..

How is Bush doing internally anyway ?

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GOG

Jesus Christ, is that how you select your candidate of choice in USA?

JavaFox

Bush is doing okay in the US. His approval rating, while lower than it was, is still historically high for a president at this point in his first term. That said, 2004 is going to be a surprisingly close election -- Bush could lose, though I personally think it is unlikely.

Anyone want to start a DH pool?

JavaFox

Waging a humanitarian war without losing a single American life?

Why, yes, we view that as a positive thing here in the United States.

Falstaff

no, he has to be really interesting on the Tonight show with Dave Leno..

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Smoothdrive

I'm afraid there be much more conflict and losses on the world-stage if you guys keep that crazy cowboy in the white house.

Still it's your country and your choice...or was it..never understood how Bush got in his seat..he lost the elections but noone even seemed to care that the looser was elected the winner. The winner declared himself the losers before the votes where counted..what did thay have on him to make him back out ?

Now the entire world seems to be on the losing side.

My apreciation for Clinton has grown and grown since billy bob took over the show

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p0rChM0nK3y

bush will win easily as long as the economy keeps getting better and the new news from iraq will help (found evidence of weapons of mass destruction program)

Smoothdrive

Economy getting better

The Euro is kicking Dollar a$$ all over the place, dollar will loose another 20-30% against the Euro in months to come is what Financial expert agree upon. Not a sign of an improving US economy IMO.

Than again for us simple folks the European economy is not that good, prices are skyhigh and jobs are cut all over the place here (in Holland at least, don't know for entire Europe).

Same in the US ? or are things better there for the "simple folks" (as Bush would say it )

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FuNsTeR

so basically your saying your gonna vote for a former general ... that nearly started a 3rd world war which was overted when the brittish commander told him "do you think im gonna start a third world war for you" sounds like a guy you can trust under difficult circumstances .... only in america , are people so gullable

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"They say when you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear satanic messages ..... but that's nothing, if you play it forward it will install Windows"

Feral

Is it only in Europe that people are so bigoted?

FuNsTeR

so do you think its normal to ask a commander of forces from another country to attack another over a silly airport ... and lets not forget why the russians controled pristina airport ... it was because of that idiot Clark demanded the entry into Kosovo be delayed 24 hours so American troops could enter Kosovo first for US TV ..... if that is your veiw that Europeans are bigoted because we do not swallow all that bull that flows from the USA ... then you are very sadly mistaken ..... wee man

oh aye and McArthur was a nut case ... history has proven that ... lets nuke the N Koreans because were losing and start WW3 in the process

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"They say when you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear satanic messages ..... but that's nothing, if you play it forward it will install Windows"

Feral

No, I think it is normal to call someone that says "only Americans could be so gullible" a bigot.


Do you have any proof to back up anything you've said, Mr. Tin Foil Man? The Russians controlled that airport because they are traditionally Serbian allies.

Falstaff

the russians controlled the airport because that was the only tactical investment in the area...a damn good place to be..and every one knew it

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FuNsTeR

... and yes a large chunk of your citizens are gullable ... its not being bigotted its fact

Quote:

Do you have any proof to back up anything you've said, Mr. Tin Foil Man? The Russians controlled that airport because they are traditionally Serbian allies.

so are you saying the Brittish commander of UK forces at the time was a liar when he went ape sh*t when clark delayed the invasion ... so his troops could be seen entering Kosovo just for American Tv and yes the entry of Kosovo was delayed for such reasons allowing the Russians to occupy Pristina airport it gave them the time to move into serbia when the heard of the delay ... they moved troops immediatley from Bosnia Herzigovina and entered Kosovo via Serbia .... ... if you cannot see the gut clark is a nutter ... then thats your problem ... don't come running to us if he leads your country into another war if he is elected ... because next time you can get on with it yourselves

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"They say when you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear satanic messages ..... but that's nothing, if you play it forward it will install Windows"

Feral

Source, please.

You are confusing opinion and fact pretty powerfully, buddy.

FuNsTeR

here's a example for you during the bombing of Iraq during the recent conflict/Invasion , an American Aircraft had the phrase "payback for 9/11" on one of its bombs ... one of the so called reasons USA went to war against Iraq as Bush stated Iraq had links with Al Quieeda which Bush recently said Iraq had no links to them ... everbody else knew except Americans ..... only a Gullable person believes everything he is told and Americans believed everything thats came out of Bush's mouth ... only now are you starting to see through him , only to be duped by some other gun totting nutter

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"They say when you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear satanic messages ..... but that's nothing, if you play it forward it will install Windows"

Feral

That doesn't prove anything. If you're going to make a sweeping bigoted generalization, you had better be prepared to show us a better example than "oh, I saw some pilots who thought that Saddam caused 9-11!!!1" Otherwise, you are simply no better than an ignorant racist or a sexist. It is the same thing.

DjGizmo

We've all been fed a load of bullshit by the media on the 9-11 and iraq war. They still haven't actually shown any proof of the chemical biological and nuclear weapons that saddam supposedly had, and that was the "justification" for the whole campaign, if you could call it that. They originally claimed saddam paid for 9-11 but now they're saying the claim is preposterous. Now what were the justifications again? I hate bush, but then i hate practically all politicians. Generally speaking, the people that are gonna be running the country are gonna be the last people you want running it. None of them give a rats ass about the average joe. If they can pocket a couple million for themselves by costing the country billions, that's exactly what they're gonna do; whether they're american, british, french, any nationality. The job of the voter is to pay attention to what they're doing and impeach the politician if they do anything they shouldn't do.

bird chest

When Bush was campaininghe said he was going to go in and fix Iraq. Then sept. 11 happened and he attacked and now the worlds fucus was in the middle East i think this would be a good time to go in. Yes he did say that there were chemical weaons and he said there might be nuclear weapons. If there was even a chance that there were nukes then I say go in, 20/20 hind sight. Chemical weapons are also very difficult to find because they can be stored in different containers and put together to make weapons. I could make chemical weapons out of what I got in the kitchen. Also if Sadam didn't have any weapons then why did he say he was going to hit are forces with them and why did he stop the UN out of certain rooms when they were searching. And how is the US going to find weapons it isn't like we have a weapon radar they could be anywhere.

The_Neon_Cowboy

they all look bad 2 me...... need some more candidates

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BluntmaN

Hmm what about delivery systems? Making Clorium gas is easy but how can you kill some one without inhalling it your self? It is weapons capable of delivering these gases that the US and UN where looking for and don't tell me that a 20 foot Scud missile is difficult to find, in the middle of a desert, with todays spy sats and Blackbirds.

It is called propaganda and lies and we all do it everyday. If I say I want to plant a bomb in my suppervisors office coz he is a Major PITA then would you arrest me for terrorism? Sadam SAID he'd use nukes against you but he didn't is this the first time you hear this? Korea does it all the time and India and Pakistan.

It is called protecting goverment secrets and it is vital when half of the world wants your country blown to bits. Having weapons inspectors turning every stone is bad enough but I would still protect my army's movements.

But you do. America has so much spy equipment you could find out the size of a mans shoe without even trying (according to some pentagon sources) are you now telling us that your saterlites are like Ray Charles in the Louvre? Make up your minds.

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'Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns — the ones we don't know we don't know.'
Donald Rumsfeld (And then they say that the White House knows what it's doing)