14-year old girl expelled for fiction written in Private Journal

Dyre Straits · Oct 29, 2003, 05:25 PM

The following story has been in the news locally, and generated national headlines recently.

Rachel Boim is a writer in a family of writers. She carried her private journal to school and other students were interested in reading it and writing their own thoughts in it.

The journal was confiscated by her art teacher and subsequently read and reviewed by school personnel.

One fictional story that Rachel wrote in her journal prompted enactment of the 'zero tolerance' policy and resulted in an immediate suspension. Another 'hearing' later resulted in expulsion from the school.

What was the story?

It involved a girl who fell asleep in class and dreamt that she shot her 6th period Math teacher. She then ran from the class and was subsequently shot by the school guard. But, as the dreaming girl was shot, the class bell rang, she woke up, picked up her books and left class.

When news of Rachel's expulsion was made public there was a huge outcry! The Fulton County School officials temporarily relented on the suspension and expulsion and Rachel was allowed to return to class this past Monday.

You can read up on the developments here:

News about Rachel Boim

This kind of response from school authorities is becoming all too common. A couple of years ago a young elementary school student was suspended for having a 'Tweety Bird' keychain. The 10-inch chain that kept it attached to her bookbag was considered a violation of the 'zero tolerance' policy against carrying weapons to school.

There is a public outcry for school officials to apply common sense to these rulings. Sadly, common sense seems to have no place in the public school system.

Asmoday · Oct 29, 2003, 05:37 PM

Sometimes Usa is a very weird country....

ZzzombieBunny · Oct 29, 2003, 05:50 PM

Now whats disturbing is that anyone can go out and buy him/herself a gun... but when a kid brings a 'Tweety Bird' keychain to school... they suspect her to commit mass murder?

And as for the diary thing, whatever happend with freedom of speech? Now you cant even write down fiction at school?

Al_Vampyre · Oct 29, 2003, 05:52 PM

Thought crime....we're all guilty!!! This is just another example of beaurocracy gone mad...

No_Style · Oct 29, 2003, 06:02 PM

Do kids even get expelled for bringing in weapons over there int he US? Cuz if bringing "inappropiate" thoughts to school deserves and expulsion, I wonder what bringing a M4 does :O

Oblivious · Oct 29, 2003, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by No_Style
Do kids even get expelled for bringing in weapons over there int he US? Cuz if bringing "inappropiate" thoughts to school deserves and expulsion, I wonder what bringing a M4 does :O

Bringing an M4 to class results in instant death, read your school handbook ... under the section where they call out the SWAT team.

J/K - But anyone here seen bowling for columbine? Remember the scene where the (14 yr old kid) pulls out 15- guns including full length shotguns etc...? That was fscking hilarious...

krazy1 · Oct 29, 2003, 06:54 PM

Next thing you know they will be expelling kids for farting in class... Fear that they are trying to gas everyone to death like a gas chamber...

Trunks0 · Oct 29, 2003, 08:56 PM

omfg. You know things in the schools are totally screwed when freedom of speech gets you kicked out of school.

studbagel9 · Oct 29, 2003, 09:40 PM

At the same time, the next time someone shoots up a school we'll hear nothing but, "Why didn't anyone know? How couldn't you tell?" In order to control something as broad as this type of violence, you need to have a blanket system in which all threats, even some which have been misconstrued as such, are taken very seriously. It would be impossible to carefully disect every bomb and gun threat the schools in America get, but we need SOMETHING... which leads us here.

Judas · Oct 30, 2003, 02:03 AM

...it's a pitiful waste of time for any blanket system to work.... if ANYONE wants to go in and kill someone...they'll do it..... What is a teacher going to do? "hey, mister....put that gun away and you exspelled"... *BLAM*.... "sucker"..... There was a time when going to school with anything was questioned..... but..... just last year... i went to school with a full sized black leather trench coat..... and i did bring a weapon or 2..... nobody knew..... at the time... till i told em....but.... hey..... what are they gonna do if i decided to go beserk...... they realized this.... if someone has a weapon... that is rather very dangerous...... would you ask for it and expelle them all in one breath?..... I know that there should be some kind of a effort made to stop it....but a blanket system just isn't going to do anything but totally screw up and waste time and money......

ToshiroOC · Oct 30, 2003, 04:36 AM

I'd rather see a school full of kids shot than see an entire generation supressed and made to believe that they are not allowed to think for themselves, think creatively, or think well.

JavaFox · Oct 30, 2003, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oblivious
But anyone here seen bowling for columbine?

Yeah, what a bad movie. I can't believe the Academy hasn't revoked his Oscar yet, considering documentaries are supposed to be non-fiction.

But, then, so long as it's expousing leftist views, I suppose they have no beef with it.

Dyre Straits · Oct 30, 2003, 05:02 AM

"....a school full of kids shot...."

That's taking it quite bit too far in the other direction, I think. But, I get the overall gist of what you're trying to say. Yes, our schools should be encouraging individual thinking, creative writing, and even open debate on topics that are of general public concern.

However, I've even read where certain topics can no longer be discussed in a classroom because they may be disturbing to others in the class or stir up emotions that may lead to class disruption. Too many schools are trying to create a 'sterile environment' where no one gets hurt. It just won't happen.

Wretch · Oct 30, 2003, 05:28 AM

Yeah, what a bad movie. I can't believe the Academy hasn't revoked his Oscar yet, considering documentaries are supposed to be non-fiction.

But, then, so long as it's expousing leftist views, I suppose they have no beef with it.

C'mon Mr. Heston, we know that's you. No need to alias. I for one, thought the film was enjoyable. If you would care to divulge which part of the movie was fictional, I'm open to hear another side. It seemed fairly rational and well thought-out to me.

However, if you're an NRA sympathizer, I suppose it was a harsh experience in the undeniable truth.

Guns are bad and we -should- limit the availability of ammunition. Hunt with a bow and arrow. A person should lock his/her doors at night and buy an alarm system if they are that scared of their neighbors.

Personally, I like to listen to both sides of the issue before I weigh-in with commentary. But so far the only defenses I've heard for having a personal stash of ammo and guns is the Constitution (which should be revised) and general paranoia. Oh well, maybe in another 200 years we'll have it figured out that owning a handgun for personal defense is not the answer.

Too bad we in the U.S. can't learn from the examples set forth by the nations that don't kill themselves.

BWX · Oct 30, 2003, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wretch
Guns are bad and we -should- limit the availability of ammunition. Hunt with a bow and arrow. A person should lock his/her doors at night and buy an alarm system if they are that scared of their neighbors.

Whatever- look what happened to the crime rate in Australia when they took away everyone's guns. Went up like 300% or something like that. Criminals will always get the guns if they want - DUH, they are criminals. Banning guns only takes them away from people who obey the laws- think about it.

The same people who think "guns are bad" expel little girls for writing about a dream in her private diary where the bad word "gun" is written.. The school system in the US is out of control, over funded and mismanaged- (kind of like our government) this story is just another example of that.

I DO hunt with a bow and arrow, but if someone breaks in my house and tries to hurt anyone in it, they're getting a 12 gauge slug in the face.

Dyre Straits · Oct 30, 2003, 06:49 AM

Just out of curiosity: Where are these nations that don't kill themselves?

Wretch · Oct 30, 2003, 07:09 AM

I was referring to the nations with low murder rates per capita by way of guns compared to the U.S. (i.e. Canada)

And I was referring to the movie Bowling for Columbine.

Also, I never did say that I was in favor of limiting the freedom of speech or the expulsion of that student based upon what she WROTE. I am totally against that limitation and resent that comparison, BWX.

Guns are bad, and we'd be better off if they'd never been invented.

**Roadee** · Oct 30, 2003, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wretch
Yeah, what a bad movie. I can't believe the Academy hasn't revoked his Oscar yet, considering documentaries are supposed to be non-fiction.

But, then, so long as it's expousing leftist views, I suppose they have no beef with it.

C'mon Mr. Heston, we know that's you. No need to alias. I for one, thought the film was enjoyable. If you would care to divulge which part of the movie was fictional, I'm open to hear another side. It seemed fairly rational and well thought-out to me.

However, if you're an NRA sympathizer, I suppose it was a harsh experience in the undeniable truth.

Guns are bad and we -should- limit the availability of ammunition. Hunt with a bow and arrow. A person should lock his/her doors at night and buy an alarm system if they are that scared of their neighbors.

Personally, I like to listen to both sides of the issue before I weigh-in with commentary. But so far the only defenses I've heard for having a personal stash of ammo and guns is the Constitution (which should be revised) and general paranoia. Oh well, maybe in another 200 years we'll have it figured out that owning a handgun for personal defense is not the answer.

Too bad we in the U.S. can't learn from the examples set forth by the nations that don't kill themselves.

LOL......what a load of shit!!!

What you think you cant be killed with a bow and arrow?? Or a rock?? Or hell......how about a dildo!! It is funny, so many people want to get rid of guns to cut down on crime and killing......taking away the guns WILL NOT STOP IT. You get killed by another person.....not a weapon.....no matter what the weapon is. I have been around guns all my life, never once have I seen one get up and walk on it's own

And the movie was a load of crap as well.......anyone can find some "worse case scenarios" and put them in a film.....but does that make it a factual documentary?? I dont think so when only part of the story is being told.

So here is a story for you.... Zardon went into a store the other night to buy some milk, a guy wearing a mask busted in and had the cashier give him the cash and then shot and killed the cashier with a paint ball gun, rupturing his eye and embedding itself into his brain. He was killed by a paint ball gun. When the police arrived they found Zardon standing above the cashier with blood on his hands from trying to help the guy.

So sticking with basically what the movie did...... "Zardon went into a store the other night, wearing a mask, shot and killed the cashier. When the police arrived, they found Zardon standing above the cashier with blood on his hands.

So I guess in the spirit of "Bowling for Colombine"......the second story is true!!

We need better parents, better school's, a standard fee for lawyer's and present laws enforced......not a state of martial law where no one has rights. Taking away a person's freedoms, isn't the idea in having a free nation.

JavaFox · Oct 30, 2003, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wretch
C'mon Mr. Heston, we know that's you. No need to alias. I for one, thought the film was enjoyable. If you would care to divulge which part of the movie was fictional, I'm open to hear another side. It seemed fairly rational and well thought-out to me.

However, if you're an NRA sympathizer, I suppose it was a harsh experience in the undeniable truth.

Personally, I like to listen to both sides of the issue before I weigh-in with commentary. But so far the only defenses I've heard for having a personal stash of ammo and guns is the Constitution (which should be revised) and general paranoia. Oh well, maybe in another 200 years we'll have it figured out that owning a handgun for personal defense is not the answer.

You haven't listened to both sides if you think the movie was true. The lies, misrepresentations, and "artistic license" that Moore employs to manipulate the facts has been extensively documented on numerous websites all over the 'Net. If you had spent 10 seconds with Google, you'd find one of them. But I think the reason you liked the movie was because you went in anti-gun, heard anti-gun rhetoric, and came out feeling justified. Did you actually look for stuff that refuted Bowling for Columbine?

I don't really care that Moore made a biased documentary. Everything is biased. He is free to have an opinion. But passing this movie off as nonfiction is dishonest at best.

Let me illustrate a few examples. First, Moore suggests that the NRA and the KKK are related in his animated sequence. This is absolutely contradicted by history. The NRA was formed by the New York Legislature at the request of UNION VETERANS (i.e., anti-slavery). Secondly, if the NRA = KKK, why in the world would they elect Ulysess S. Grant as their president? If people that watched this movie knew anything about history, they'd know that Grant was the biggest enemy the KKK has ever had. Grant went to near UNCONSTITUTIONAL lengths to destroy the KKK. He suspended habeus corpus and deployed troops against the KKK. In fact, as recently as the 50s, blacks joined the NRA and acquired rifles to fight the KKK. To even suggest that the NRA and the KKK are linked is to show how ridiculous the movie was.

Moore claims that the US funded the Taliban directly in his film. The fact of the matter is, the USA gave Afghanistan humanitarian aid to relieve famine and clear mines THROUGH THE UN.

Examine Moore's "death figures" regarding how many people have died due to guns in various countries. Try to find these figures ANYWHERE and I guarantee you won't be able to find them. Maybe he made the up. Who can tell? They are unconfirmable.

Look at the Heston speech. Moore doctored that speech incredibly. Everything is taken out of context. Here is how Heston's speech appeared in Bolwing for Columine (taken from Hardy Law):

Quote:

Weeping children outside Columbine;

Cut to Charlton Heston holding a musket and proclaiming "I have only five words for you: 'from my cold, dead, hands'";

Cut to billboard advertising the meeting, while Moore intones "Just ten days after the Columbine killings, despite the pleas of a community in mourning, Charlton Heston came to Denver and held a large pro-gun rally for the National Rifle Association;"

Cut to Heston (supposedly) continuing speech... "I have a message from the Mayor, Mr. Wellington Webb, the Mayor of Denver. He sent me this; it says 'don't come here. We don't want you here.' I say to the Mayor this is our country, as Americans we're free to travel wherever we want in our broad land. Don't come here? We're already here!"

Wow, makes him seem like an asshole, doesn't it?

First of all, that was not an impromtu pro-gun rally, as Moore suggests. It was an annual meeting whose date was fixed years in advance. In fact, the NRA cancelled ALL OF ITS OTHER MEETINGS IN DENVER except for one because they were REQUIRED to by law. Moore didn't say that, did he? Furthermore, HESTON DIDN'T EVEN SAY "FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS" DURING THE DENVER MEETING. THAT WAS FROM A PREVIOUS MEETING.

Here is some of what Heston REALLY said:

Quote:

"I said to the mayor, well, my reply to the mayor is, I volunteered for the war they wanted me to attend when I was 18 years old. Since then, I've run small errands for my country, from Nigeria to Vietnam. I know many of you here in this room could say the same thing."

Quote:

"NRA members are in city hall, Fort Carson, NORAD, the Air Force Academy and the Olympic Training Center. And yes, NRA members are surely among the police and fire and SWAT team heroes who risked their lives to rescue the students at Columbine.

Don't come here? We're already here. This community is our home. Every community in America is our home. We are a 128-year-old fixture of mainstream America. The Second Amendment ethic of lawful, responsible firearm ownership spans the broadest cross section of American life imaginable.

So, we have the same right as all other citizens to be here. To help shoulder the grief and share our sorrow and to offer our respectful, reassured voice to the national discourse that has erupted around this tragedy."

Wow, you get a totally different impression! WHAT A SURPRISE!

If Moore was interested in the truth, he would have included it when Heston said "As you know, we've cancelled the festivities, the fellowship we normally enjoy at our annual gatherings" -- but he didn't. Because he is only interested in demagougery and getting people to believe that the NRA and the KKK are the same thing (which 99% of the people that saw and liked that movie probably believe). The movie is a lie.

Wretch · Oct 30, 2003, 08:58 AM

Sorry, but it's been a few months since I saw the movie and I didn't find it a movie about linking the NRA with the KKK at all. Nor did I ever say anything about that in my statement.

But you have to agree that the moral to the story was to -begin- to limit the availability of weapons/ammo like that. -To begin to reduce the availability- To make it harder for the kids to go into a store and buy the ammo.

Wouldn't you agree the world be a better place without guns? or if they had never invented them at all?

Think of the world 200, 1000, 2000 years from now... do you think we'll need guns then? I would hope not.

As far as I saw, Moore was spouting the statistics for murder (by gun) in each country per capita. I don't see what's so disputable about those facts. Surely, the police force and the governments are keeping track of murders in their respective countries and how they occurred.

I'm sorry Mr. Heston's speech wasn't included in it's entirety for you. I'm sure in Bowling for Columbine 2 there will be more footage to show it in the manner that suits you.

Roadee: I'm not sure what your story was about, or it's point, but maybe it would make a good movie.

JavaFox · Oct 30, 2003, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wretch
But you have to agree that the moral to the story was to -begin- to limit the availability of weapons/ammo like that. -To begin to reduce the availability- To make it harder for the kids to go into a store and buy the ammo.

The movie didn't have that moral at all. Moore was making the argument that the reason the US has dramatically higher gun deaths is because we have a culture of fear. It was not a pro-gun control movie.

Quote:

Wouldn't you agree the world be a better place without guns? or if they had never invented them at all?

No, I totally disagree. Seriously, examine history. If nothing else, the invention of gun powder weapons destroyed feudalism. Was feudalism a good thing?

Quote:

As far as I saw, Moore was spouting the statistics for murder (by gun) in each country per capita. I don't see what's so disputable about those facts. Surely, the police force and the governments are keeping track of murders in their respective countries and how they occurred.

The thing that is disputable about those statistics is that they aren't corroborated anywhere. If you can find ANY place his figures are published, let me know. But compared to FBI stats, Moore's are way too high. Again, if you are really interested in seeing both sides, I challenge you to find a source that supports Moore's numbers. You won't be able to.

The point is, Bowling for Columbine spliced together different Heston speeches, took words out of context, and RADICALLY altered the meaning of Heston's speech. I guess that okay if you are anti-gun though.

**Roadee** · Oct 30, 2003, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wretch

Roadee: I'm not sure what your story was about, or it's point, but maybe it would make a good movie.

Dude.....if you can't understand a simple story and the theory behind it that was explained before and after........then I can see why you dont understand the movie "Bowling for Columbine", or what it was about. So in light of your level of comprehension maybe it would be best if you bought a gun and considered using it wisely. Considering some of your comments, it appears that you have never owned or taken the time to learn how to use and fire a weapon. Maybe you should, after all there are many uses for a gun, and only 1 of them is bad. You do know that marksmanship is a part of the Olympics.......dont you?

Please take the time to do more research on subjects that you like to comment on and try your best to give factual responses. Java made some very good and intelligent points.....based on fact. You really can't refute them without first coming up with the facts to prove it.

Wretch · Oct 30, 2003, 10:11 AM

I suppose I'll end this discussion by sayin 'no you're wrong, and I'm right' because that's basically what you guys are trying to do to me.

Now go play with your guns, protect yourselves, win gold medals, whatever you Neanderthals do.

I look at it like this, guns have but one purpose, to kill. Good luck trying to rationalize that one.

Meanwhile, I'll be over here enjoying my peace of mind.

**Roadee** · Oct 30, 2003, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wretch
I suppose I'll end this discussion by sayin 'no you're wrong, and I'm right' because that's basically what you guys are trying to do to me.

Now go play with your guns, protect yourselves, win gold medals, whatever you Neanderthals do.

I look at it like this, guns have but one purpose, to kill. Good luck trying to rationalize that one.

Meanwhile, I'll be over here enjoying my peace of mind.

You must be kidding? With comments like that you are calling US neanderthals?? OK Lucy.....go find your piece of mind

Al_Vampyre · Oct 30, 2003, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by studbagel9
At the same time, the next time someone shoots up a school we'll hear nothing but, "Why didn't anyone know? How couldn't you tell?" In order to control something as broad as this type of violence, you need to have a blanket system in which all threats, even some which have been misconstrued as such, are taken very seriously. It would be impossible to carefully disect every bomb and gun threat the schools in America get, but we need SOMETHING... which leads us here.

Any system has to be able to distinguish between reality and fiction...what are we going to do next, lock up all the crime authors and film directors? Or are they ignored because they are famous and pay big tax dollars?

I find it almost impossible to believe that the education system is stifling creativity in such a manner, creative people are creative people becuase they have a capacity to think outside their normal environs and produce work that challenges us, makes us question who and what we are, makes us think...something that this particular school board have forgotten how to do.

**Roadee** · Oct 30, 2003, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Al_Vampyre
Any system has to be able to distinguish between reality and fiction...what are we going to do next, lock up all the crime authors and film directors? Or are they ignored because they are famous and pay big tax dollars?

I find it almost impossible to believe that the education system is stifling creativity in such a manner, creative people are creative people becuase they have a capacity to think outside their normal environs and produce work that challenges us, makes us question who and what we are, makes us think...something that this particular school board have forgotten how to do.

I see your point and do agree with most of them. But I really dont think that the school expelled her to stifle her creativity or to really censor her intellect. I think that they just over reacted on her story which was apparently written as fictional, and yet taken as litteral. The real problem is that the school failed to even listen to what she had to say, or her parents for that matter. It was nothing more than a "I am right, you are wrong", type of mentallity that has made the school and other people with this type of thinking.....basically look retarded. For years schools of all levels in many countries have been doing what they call "shaping" a students mind, when in fact they are doing nothing more than trying to brain wash them into living by there beliefs. There are many University professor's that have been tossed into the lime light for doing just that. People like this dont want you to think for yourself.....unless it coincides perfectly with what they believe is right and wrong.

There is an old saying, "Great minds think alike". Personally I can't see how you could have a mind at all if you can't even muster your own thoughts and opinions. It does nothing more than impede progression towards something greater, and stunts the growth of evolutionary intellect.

The_Neon_Cowboy · Oct 30, 2003, 11:10 AM

hmm... wierd

BWX · Oct 30, 2003, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wretch
Also, I never did say that I was in favor of limiting the freedom of speech or the expulsion of that student based upon what she WROTE. I am totally against that limitation and resent that comparison, BWX.

You can resent the comparison if you want, but I bet money the people that expelled the little girl have the same view toward guns that you do. --"guns are evil".

Quote:

Originally posted by Wretch
Guns are bad, and we'd be better off if they'd never been invented.

I guess with that thinking cars are evil too- they kill more people than guns don't they? Do you think they should never have been invented? Please. You don't see people fighting to get cars banned. What about knives and baseball bats- are they evil too? People die every year from knife wounds and baseball bat beatings- but then again, you could just make your own bat from any tree, I guess we should ban all trees, because trees kill, after all, they are the main ingredient in baseball bats. Wait, trees grow in dirt- dirt is evil, we must ban all dirt- dirt makes trees that make bats and bats kill!

Windows, we should ban all windows, who needs light in building? People jump out/ are pushed out windows, WINDOWS KILL!!! Ban windows!- Brick walls are all we need.

Oh wait- People jump off the top of buildings don't they? Ban all roofs!- (solves the light problem for having no windows too!)--- no roofs for buildings! ROOFS KILL!! We can live without them, they are evil, they should have never been invented, we would all be better off without buildings with roofs or windows......

uhhhh, if you can't see the point here..........

An inanimate object is incapable of being evil. If We didn't invent them someone else would and come shoot your ass. And take over. Human nature is to blame, not a piece of metal that shoots out another piece of metal.
God gave us the ability to take another persons or our own life, guns do not change that fact, it just changes the distance at which you can do it without someone else's help. It is every persons own responsibility to respect other people's lives, don't blame the weapon, blame the person holding it- this is at the most basic level of common sense and even the most mentally challenged person could understand it.

Judas · Oct 30, 2003, 12:00 PM

.... guns don't kill people....people kill people... (that has to have been heard by someone here)..... the only thing i can say is... There is a middle ground...and i think the US setup is WAY overboard on one side..and canada.. now... is way to far on the other....... canada "thinks" that if we force registration of guns...that there will be nothing to worry about..... but considering that.... what the hell happens if someone is shot by an unregistered gun?.... waste of millions for taxes..... and time in general...... (i think were at 1.6 billion just for the setup now..and it's proveing to be worse).... saskatchewan has opted out of it because it's a useless law....... I think every household should have a damn good 12 guage...or maybe a slick 22 or 222.... (later being a little extreme...but worthy)...... what i don't think is nessary at all.. is having one on your person at all times ..or at all..... more on this from me... but i'm just not all here at the moment...

**Roadee** · Oct 31, 2003, 05:28 AM

Hey Judas......I have several friends up in Canada that just happened to lose there guns in the river/lake while hunting/fishing. Kind of hard to register a gun that was lost

ah.....your tax $$ at work..

They can make rules and laws till they are blue in the face.....doesn't mean the people have to conform to them.

Oct 29, 2003, 05:37 PM	#2
Asmoday Demonic Join Date: May 2002 Location: In the cold, dark north... Posts: 5,198 Rep Power: 90 System Specs	Sometimes Usa is a very weird country.... __________________ How You can help Hardwareheaven by using Digg

Oct 29, 2003, 05:52 PM	#4
Al_Vampyre HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,532 Rep Power: 71 System Specs	Thought crime....we're all guilty!!! This is just another example of beaurocracy gone mad... __________________ "Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit; wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad" - Brian O'Driscoll - Ireland Rugby Team 2009 Grand Slam winning Captain.

Oct 29, 2003, 06:02 PM	#5
No_Style Styleless Wonder Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ottawa, Ontario Posts: 6,034 Rep Power: 0	Question: Do kids even get expelled for bringing in weapons over there int he US? Cuz if bringing "inappropiate" thoughts to school deserves and expulsion, I wonder what bringing a M4 does :O __________________ "The Best Style Is No Style" Specifications Here

Oct 29, 2003, 06:54 PM	#7
krazy1 Live from the Dungeon Join Date: May 2003 Location: Between the SubWoofers Posts: 1,395 Rep Power: 0	Next thing you know they will be expelling kids for farting in class... Fear that they are trying to gas everyone to death like a gas chamber... __________________

Oct 29, 2003, 08:56 PM	#8
Trunks0 Keeping an open mind Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vancouver,B.C.,Canada Posts: 552 Rep Power: 62 System Specs	omfg. You know things in the schools are totally screwed when freedom of speech gets you kicked out of school. __________________

Oct 29, 2003, 05:50 PM	#3
ZzzombieBunny Cake or Death? Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Sweden Posts: 258 Rep Power: 0	Now whats disturbing is that anyone can go out and buy him/herself a gun... but when a kid brings a 'Tweety Bird' keychain to school... they suspect her to commit mass murder? And as for the diary thing, whatever happend with freedom of speech? Now you cant even write down fiction at school?

Oct 29, 2003, 09:40 PM	#9
studbagel9 Rolling the Hard Six Join Date: May 2003 Location: Lock Haven, PA Posts: 767 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	Devil's Advocate At the same time, the next time someone shoots up a school we'll hear nothing but, "Why didn't anyone know? How couldn't you tell?" In order to control something as broad as this type of violence, you need to have a blanket system in which all threats, even some which have been misconstrued as such, are taken very seriously. It would be impossible to carefully disect every bomb and gun threat the schools in America get, but we need SOMETHING... which leads us here. __________________

Oct 30, 2003, 04:36 AM	#11
ToshiroOC Unbiased. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 4,812 Rep Power: 0	I'd rather see a school full of kids shot than see an entire generation supressed and made to believe that they are not allowed to think for themselves, think creatively, or think well. __________________ [img][/img] [color=White]Peace be with you, Joe.[/color] Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

Oct 30, 2003, 05:28 AM	#14
Wretch Minister of Defense Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 56 Rep Power: 0	Yeah, what a bad movie. I can't believe the Academy hasn't revoked his Oscar yet, considering documentaries are supposed to be non-fiction. But, then, so long as it's expousing leftist views, I suppose they have no beef with it. C'mon Mr. Heston, we know that's you. No need to alias. I for one, thought the film was enjoyable. If you would care to divulge which part of the movie was fictional, I'm open to hear another side. It seemed fairly rational and well thought-out to me. However, if you're an NRA sympathizer, I suppose it was a harsh experience in the undeniable truth. Guns are bad and we -should- limit the availability of ammunition. Hunt with a bow and arrow. A person should lock his/her doors at night and buy an alarm system if they are that scared of their neighbors. Personally, I like to listen to both sides of the issue before I weigh-in with commentary. But so far the only defenses I've heard for having a personal stash of ammo and guns is the Constitution (which should be revised) and general paranoia. Oh well, maybe in another 200 years we'll have it figured out that owning a handgun for personal defense is not the answer. Too bad we in the U.S. can't learn from the examples set forth by the nations that don't kill themselves.

Oct 30, 2003, 07:09 AM	#17
Wretch Minister of Defense Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 56 Rep Power: 0	I was referring to the nations with low murder rates per capita by way of guns compared to the U.S. (i.e. Canada) And I was referring to the movie Bowling for Columbine. Also, I never did say that I was in favor of limiting the freedom of speech or the expulsion of that student based upon what she WROTE. I am totally against that limitation and resent that comparison, BWX. Guns are bad, and we'd be better off if they'd never been invented.

Oct 30, 2003, 08:58 AM	#20
Wretch Minister of Defense Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 56 Rep Power: 0	Sorry, but it's been a few months since I saw the movie and I didn't find it a movie about linking the NRA with the KKK at all. Nor did I ever say anything about that in my statement. But you have to agree that the moral to the story was to -begin- to limit the availability of weapons/ammo like that. -To begin to reduce the availability- To make it harder for the kids to go into a store and buy the ammo. Wouldn't you agree the world be a better place without guns? or if they had never invented them at all? Think of the world 200, 1000, 2000 years from now... do you think we'll need guns then? I would hope not. As far as I saw, Moore was spouting the statistics for murder (by gun) in each country per capita. I don't see what's so disputable about those facts. Surely, the police force and the governments are keeping track of murders in their respective countries and how they occurred. I'm sorry Mr. Heston's speech wasn't included in it's entirety for you. I'm sure in Bowling for Columbine 2 there will be more footage to show it in the manner that suits you. Roadee: I'm not sure what your story was about, or it's point, but maybe it would make a good movie. Last edited by Wretch; Oct 30, 2003 at 09:06 AM.

Oct 30, 2003, 10:11 AM	#23
Wretch Minister of Defense Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 56 Rep Power: 0	I suppose I'll end this discussion by sayin 'no you're wrong, and I'm right' because that's basically what you guys are trying to do to me. Now go play with your guns, protect yourselves, win gold medals, whatever you Neanderthals do. I look at it like this, guns have but one purpose, to kill. Good luck trying to rationalize that one. Meanwhile, I'll be over here enjoying my peace of mind.

Oct 30, 2003, 11:10 AM	#27
The_Neon_Cowboy HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 16,009 Rep Power: 90 System Specs	hmm... wierd __________________

Oct 31, 2003, 05:28 AM	#30
Roadee Never forgotten Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Rest In peace, Joe. Posts: 2,198 Rep Power: 67	Hey Judas......I have several friends up in Canada that just happened to lose there guns in the river/lake while hunting/fishing. Kind of hard to register a gun that was lost ah.....your tax $$ at work.. They can make rules and laws till they are blue in the face.....doesn't mean the people have to conform to them. __________________ We are born naked, wet, and hungry. Then things get worse.