bird chest

I always here from everyone that "illegals are important to our economy and that the california economy would collapse without them." Now there may be a truth to this but I looked it up and saw that illegals are costing the US billions and california hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars. Now I am not an stupid I know there are a lot of benefits to having them here but do the pros outway the cons? So I am asking if you feel that they should stay or go? I vote that they should go.

my sources are http://207.188.212.158/Research/Rese...fm?ID=1407&c=9 and http://www.dslextreme.com/users/surferslim/text1.html

The_Neon_Cowboy

I say do a massive check, thouse without a vaild green card or US birh cert. deport them ALL ....

There a milllions of illeagalls in CA. Millions... and many are useing medicare, welfare,Social securty, tax dollors galore. as well as takeing jobs away from real us citizens....

they also are not citizens meaning thier not protected by US constitioinal rights..

the need to militarize the zone between the us and mexico ... really...

CA's system it totally messed up ... the mexican gov goves them a card. they take that card and get a Social securty number a drivers licence, and a banks account. most places need only a ss card and a dl to gain employment. wich by immigarten says makes it alot harder for them to deport them.

the imigration dept often fails to act on reports of known illegals etc...

Alot hundreds of millions of us jobs moved to mexico with NAFTA... yet they still come up here and steal jobs that would otherwise goto real citizens. alot of employers know thier illegal and pay them under that table avioding taxes. so alot of them aren't paying any taxes eather..

something must be done!
if anything just remove nafta an put a nice terfif on thier goods .... that'll bring the jobs back

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bird chest

the thing is is that police can not ask for proof of citizenship it is deemed racist. I say it is not racist I say it is being intelligent if there were 2 million white illegals in cali then ask white people for proof.

The_Neon_Cowboy

how can it be raseist? We are talking about the same state thats removeing Slave/master from thier video equipent becouse a person of race (wasn't unspecified) took offence and filed a complaint.

They doo door to door census every 10 years, how about we check citizen ship at the same time as well....

Its easly requre absolut proof for jobs, food stamps, aid of any kind, back account etc... then they come come they cont do crap so they eather starve or go home. They also add tho the statres crime rate.
I used to have pen pals in CA. when i was in middle shools and the girls take about be afraid. As 30+ year old men were hitting (sexually) on 13,14 year old gils since they marry them young in mexico.

there isn't a vaild reson to leave them there...

also, like to mention the child malpratice case, wer the hospital aprently did something wrong and the child died were their trying to sue and her and her family are illeagals. no protection under the consitution or the law. shouln't have been here. shoulnt be able to sue shoud be deported immeadatly.

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digerati

There are a lot of bad things about illegal aliens. Especially the drug part. But I feel if they were all removed then there would be SO many jobs open and so many that probably wouldn't be fulfilled that some companies would collapse.

And I feel a personal morality issue as well. According to your dslextreme source:
"Wages are approximately 15 times greater in the U.S. than in Mexico depending on the value of the Mexican peso, therefore, illegal immigration will continue. The Mexican minimum wage is about $0.47 cents per hour in U.S. denomination as of 01 January 2001, and the U.S. minimum wage is $5.75 per hour in California. In other words, Mexican citizens might make as much working one year in the U.S. as they would make working 15 years in Mexico!"

My father used to know a great many illegal aliens, where as many as 10 lived in an apartment and slept on the floors in sleeping bags and sent money home to their families. They didn't commit crimes, they did do marijuana but they didn't waste money on it (draw your on conclusions), and they didn't cause any problems for anyone. A good amount of these people are here to work to support themselves and/or their families. I think it'd be cold to throw them out.

digerati

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me

Emma Lazarus, "The New Colossus," 1883.

This is on an engraving at the statue of liberty.

The_Neon_Cowboy

There were talks of changing that actullay...but nothing has ever happend to it yet, since its a historical pice it can't be tuched. It doesnt read send me you people illeaglly eather. Or rush our bordes and poulate our states. There is a legal and proper way to enter the us.

Was not that statue a gift from France?
were in the constutiution does it say that? -BTW: it doesn't


SO many jobs open and so many that probably wouldn't be fulfilled that some companies would collapse. acually there are more unemployed then that. people would end up being easy to get a job and workers would end up getting paid more!

No excues! they can get tempary visa's to live in the us like 1-3 years i'm not clear the time limit. and leally work and PAY TAXES etc. Most of them are not parying taxes being paid in CASH but also dawing on the progams that are funderd by tax payers.

There not all good people comeing over 2. mostly these people come over empty pockets and hand receshed out for handouts. I'm sorry but who made it the USA's Responceablity to feed and cloth and empoly the entire world and with little to no taxation? Most of them speak litle to No english. Have had little education. they fill our schools, our homless shelters , etc.... they not a addition but a bruden to the USA and it's people.

thier part of the reason why CA. is the most hevaly populated state in the usa. The econmy sucks the jon market is scarce. think if they expelled all those ilegal immigrants and those jobs opened. americans filled them. we'd see the usa economy jump greater then it ever has. we'd see deficects turn to surplus and so on.

But insted of comeing in he legal way the sneak in, thats like saying i cant go in the theather the legal way so lets sneek in the exit doors etc.. its more seroius than that.

If you look at the whole picture, thir arent any good resons to let this continue as illegals pour across our boarders.

population control think of the future. at some point thier wil not be enogh food, watter, resorues, for us all to live. So a decision to mass kill will have to be made at some point. Or all human life, a most of everything else on this planet will die. some countries have instated population contols allready! In the form of limiting the amout of births. but many of those who wat bigger familis end up in the us so they can have their dozen kids and live on welfare lol..

thers need to be a barder contols 2, people get deported they just come back again!

why should money from my pocket/ food from my familys table go to feed, colth, pay for welfare and social secuty for these people not even paying taxs who aren't supposed 2 be here...

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digerati

Oh GOD yes! Our unemployed Americans will flock to pick grapes with no bathrooms, running water, and get paid less than minimum wage! Woohoo! Give me a break.

My moms boyfriend will get day laborer mexicans, they stand at a corner, and he pays them 40 bux a day flat. Sometimes for 6 hours of work, sometimes 12. And they work, but never ONCE! Has he seen a white guy there to be picked up.

bird chest

How many of these illegals are in jail to I have read a statistic also that said that one in four illegals (I can not find out where I read this so I cna not say for sure) are in jail in cali so why should we be letting these people stay illegally?

bird chest

also try telling a starving man that these people are taking jobs that they don't want who are you to say (no person in particular just using you to the masses)

digerati

Because that "starving" man isn't standing at the corner to do a days labor of work like those illegals are. You also have to take into consideration why that man may be "starving" in the first place.

The_Neon_Cowboy

true, but what the man who wants to work but can find no job?

and acually there are a few of white people here who stand at he courner that have signs will work for food. etc.. never have i seen an illegal here doing that. thier to busy over working at the job site and getting paid in cash only. Jobs are really tight here with all the lay off and theres is massive compition for but 1 job.

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digerati

And you don't think that homeless guy couldn't get that job? He could easily go and get paid even less under the table than those illegals will. Afterall, if people want to pay less and he'll work for money then he should have no hassle taking an illegals job, so why doesn't he?

The_Neon_Cowboy

becouse if the illeagals were not there in the first place then a ctizen would get paid 2 do it

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digerati

You didn't answer my question, if that guy is so desperate for money why doesn't he go and do the work for less than the illegals?

bird chest

if the guy goes and works for less than illegals then they are just worsenng the situation. Theis is what happens in India and you want the us to have people getting paid 15 cents instead of kicking the illegals out and going back to minimum wage

BluntmaN

We have had problems with immigrants as well and from my point of view it is a very touchy subject.
The biggest problem with immigrants is that they work illegaly and for minimum or less than min wage. The solution is to give temporary work permits and arrest everybody else and deport them. And this goes to the ppl giving illegal jobs to the immigrants (provided legal ppl with permits are available). Our goverment had and still has problems with Albanians working for low wages, they dont pay taxes and they create crime coz they are poor. The problems became smaller when the gov gave them permits but now we are facing unemployment problems. Good luck CA.

__________________
'Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns — the ones we don't know we don't know.'
Donald Rumsfeld (And then they say that the White House knows what it's doing)

bird chest

Another thing is all illegals should be kicked out white whatever. And I keep hearing about that white guys should work for less. What about the african american guys who are losing jobs, legal latinos, and legal arabic people. Why does it just have to be the white person that it effects.

@/2ct!<

Mexican President Vincente Fox Spends millions each year to promote illegal immigration. Maybe if they put that money into building more productive things in Mexico they might get somewhere. It also hurts us because the money they make here goes back to Mexican families and out of the US.

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BluntmaN

@/2ct!< I think that the US economy can withstand a few millions going to Mexico I mean you spend billions to guard rocks in Afganistan and when it comes to cutting corners you blame Mexico?



Coz white folk make the laws in US. Yes black ppl and other minorities will lose jobs but it is the way things go in US isn't it? However making the illegal alliens work legaly will make Mexicans and blacks work under the same situation. Legalizing these ppl will make the profit made by employers using them dissapear. There is no way you ll stop Mexicans from coming to US unless you are ready to close the borders with Mexico which I know to be a daft idea. In Greece on average 100 ppl die in the Greek-Albanian borders by frost or landmines or shoot outs between the ppl helping illegals cross the boarder and the army. Even if the number was 2000 ppl they would still cross.

__________________
'Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns — the ones we don't know we don't know.'
Donald Rumsfeld (And then they say that the White House knows what it's doing)

bird chest

if I am not mistaken Latinos are the biggest ethnicity in califronia and what do white people making laws have to do with the poor and who loses their jobs.

BluntmaN

Latinos Blacks Rednecks doesn't matter. White folks are the ones who have the power this is what it is all about mate these f@ckwits that allow companies to toss the minorities aside and let only white folks get places that could be filled by other people who have the experience and skills but happen to be latino or any other minority. This is the biggest problem in the economic world today how can we make it fair and free at the same time. America imho has allowed companies to run so freely your own freedom is at stakes. I am not saying switch to communism or socialism but a few more laws could help you(The Uk model is an interesting example of controled capitalism).

__________________
'Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns — the ones we don't know we don't know.'
Donald Rumsfeld (And then they say that the White House knows what it's doing)

bird chest

All I have to say is wow

Cali needs less laws because we are 50th out of 50th in business friendlyness then jobs leave the state or the country and you are saying we need more? So screw over the people who are here legally with businesses but then it is ok to allow illegals take all the money from this money from the state throught wefare and other means. How is this fair? My point with saying that latinos are the biggest ethnicity is that they are no longer a minority, they are the majority. So if their candidates don't get ellected do not blame the state.

How has business run to freely? Look at this strike on all the major supermarkets how is that fair to the business? why should they be forced to pay benefits? In california a candle company has to put "caution maybe flamable" on their candles. Where are the businesses rights?

And unless you want the inner cities and the rest of cali to get worse we need to get rid of the illegals and perhaps allow visas to become longer and more easily gotten.

apoc3000

Califronia is the way it is now because all the people from the U.S. (mostly east coast i.e NY, GA, NJ etc) are moving to California. CA is overpopulated as it is and a lot of people hear how good the climate and the highways are in California and want to move there. Also these politicians are damning the state. We blame the CA liberals but its the Republicans who want to remove many laws concerning the envoirnment, so pretty soon CA is going to become New Jersey and New York put together.

apoc3000

We all like to blame immigrants for job losses but its us Americans overpopulating states. No one likes to live in the middle of the U.S. anymore, we all like living on the east and west coast. We blame immigrants but its many legal Americans moving to other states hoping for a better life. Also we say that businesses don't want to stay in CA because of high taxes, yes that's true but those businesses are mostly corporations that make millions to billions in profit each year and don't like paying taxes like everyone else, they would rather move to a state with less laws or find loopholes. And who makes all the money, yeah thats right the big fat ceo and executives. They would rather lay off people and make a $20 million profit instead of $10 million. It's the corporations that pay politicians to blame immigrants or make the laws less stricker for them. Lets look at the facts: 2% of America's population controls the wealth.

bird chest

Just by US citizens not immigrants californial is shrinking! Because the big bad corporations are moving out of the state if not the country leaving all those people unemployed!! And are moving to those small states! Yes the ceo is making a lot but why not isn't it not there right. But I do agree that there is a balance between both sides. But I am just saying that we have gone to far to the left right now. My economics teacher today told my class that in 49 out of 50 of the states illegals are actually a plus but in california they are hurting the economy. I am conservative but I am for the enviroment and I agree that our enviroment should be one of our top priorities, but most of you "liberals" need to wake up and stop being hypocritical. My example is suburbans they are terrible to our enviroment and people still drive them. People need to stop yelling at concervatives for our enviromental polocies and except that they need to do their part!! The goverrnment can not solve all our problems!!

bird chest

The companies save a lot more than just 10 million dollars by moving. No the ceo does not make most the money. They make a hefty some but not most.

could you source that 2% of americans thing because I hear that a lot and it is always a different number and I would just like to know where the number really stands.