BluntmaN

Capitalism is not actually responsible for america's super power status I am afraid.
1) America was built by slaves from its begining.
2) The economic problems that rose in Europe at late 19th and early 20th centiries created a massive wave of immigrants which brought cheap labor.
3) WW2 left the whole of Europe economicaly decimated while America profited by selling arms to the allies.

Finally do not forget that Adam Smith's theory was not born in America and as far as your "founding fathers" are conserned capitalism was not used as an American ideal at the time(correct me if I am wrong).
America was the land of opportunity and was given a head start compered to other places like it, for example Australia. This is what allowed US to become a super power and not capitalism which is a far older and widely used economical theory. In fact looking around developed countries you cannot find a single one that doesnt have capitalism as its main ideology. However I do believe that a free for all capitalistic society cannot survive in the long run mainly because of the accumulation of wealth and the degradation of politics to a pupet show run by CEOs and coorporate interests. You must always have a socialist backbone to allow the goverment to tax the rich and give to the poor and also very strict regulations, that have failed in the American model as Enron and the Microsoft monopoly so brightly showed.

__________________
'Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns — the ones we don't know we don't know.'
Donald Rumsfeld (And then they say that the White House knows what it's doing)

UberLord

The NHS has never produced any medicines. It's a hospital. We have research centers instead. These research centers DO make new medicines. I know - I write software for the research market as a day job.

Show me a government that hasn't overspent in the last 10 years. The fact that we have universal healthcare is irrelevant to that argument.

__________________
Gentoo Linux - Developer (baselayout)
Read my blog

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
Stephen Roberts

zerodamage

You are wrong on every account. If slavery is a reason for Amerca's fast growth, then explain Africa.

Conspiracy theories are not valid reasons. At the time of WW1 and WW2, the US was already one of the super powers. WW2 proved that when we fought the war on 2 fronts and won both.

bluelight

Well you didnt exacly win the whole war.

Stalin won half of it and if it hadn´t been for the millions of dead Russians keeping Hitler occupied ,Europe would probably have remained German another 10 15 years.

Bluelight

zerodamage

The U.S. won the war along with our allies at that time. The millions of dead Russians were by Stalin's own hands.

GutterPunk

i have to agree w/ ZD good point... Stalin aws responsible for the millions dead

__________________
Rock On \m/ Thank you Mousey for the Sig!
---------------

Intel Core2Duo E6660 (3.4GHZ) ~ Tuniq Tower 120 ~ Enermax Galaxy 1000W ~ Corsair Dominator @ 1090MHZ 5-5-5-15 (OCZ XTC Modded Cooler)~ EVGA 8800GTX W/ HR-03 Plus 120MM ~ Asus DVD-RW LiteScribe ~ LG DVD-RW ~ Corsair Voyager 2GB ReadyBoost Drive ~ Vantec Nexus Fan Controller ~ ThermalTake Armor 25CM fan ~
Personal Finance Blog: Dent Your Debt

bluelight

Your off topic now.

Im not talking about the millions of dead caused by Stalin.

Im talking about the millions of dead caused by Hitler.Two different issues more or less even if the two are linked.

They.....THe RUSSIAN PEOPLE also won the war for us.

So if you claim Usa won the war for us then you leave out half the truth.

When it comes to defating Hitler Russia did just as and probably more in sacrifice as you did.

Three million Russians were killed during Operation Barabarossa and three more millions taken as prisoners.

This was in 41 when the war still had 4 more years to go.

Bluelight

zerodamage

Bluelight, without the U.S. in WW2, Germany would have won that war.

Who cares who lost the most people in WW2. That is not what it is about. It is about who turned the tide of the war, who made the difference. It was not Russia.

Now, take a look at some statistics here: http://kinfish.plala.jp/usa/relativity.html

If you would note the number dead during Stalin's Regime, almost as many as all of WW2. Like I said above, most of those Russians killed were by Stalin himself. Stalin was as evil as Hitler. Their political idealogies were different. One Communist, the other a form of Socialism.

bluelight

Already said ..The issue here is not Stalins murderings.. (He and his predators killed something like 45.-50 million people according to some figures)

The issue is how many Russians who died in defending Russia and thus sucking the guts out of Hilers force.

Hitlers luck was ended at Stralingrad and only in Stalingrad and around it millions of Russian were killed.

The end of the war started in Stalingrad and nowhere else.Hadn´t Rudssia been defended the way it was and hadn´t Russia been defended the way it was and Hitler beaten you would still have had to deal with the third reich or alternatively been forced to nuke him of the globe.


Bluelight

bluelight

He he..man you posted a link to an anti Us site.Then we are even as i posted a link to a pro US site in order to verify my claims.You did it the same way.

Whole lotta dead people on that site.....

When you see figures like that gathered in that manner it really makes you feel lucky you were born on the right place and time in history.

Seeing figures like that makes me think were not much more than flies in eternity.

Listened to radio today.Talk aboutbthe new epidemic "chicken flu"'

The experts said the risk was very low for a global outbrak of significance.

They then went on to say that each day 10 000 kids die from diffent curable diseases.

5000 die from curable pneumonia......kids....each day.

Yep not much more than flies and some of us are lucky.

Bluelight

zerodamage

I know the site is anti-us. I was looking for the factual numbers posted there, not their crazy opinions.

And yes, I agree. We are all needles in a giant hey stack. One day, something may find us or we may be lucky.

bluelight

Going off topic here.

See you got a Barton.Gonna ask you some questions about that one later.Just gonna dig up some specs on what i have.

Thinking of upgrading my machine.Maybe you can help me.

Bluey

zerodamage

Blue, not a problem. visit our irc channel. Lots of help you can get from there.

BluntmaN

Now I do know that Stalin was a murdering bastard but without Stalin, his scorched earth strategy (that led millions to starvation) and his stand in Stalingrad most of the world would be speaking German. The allies alone would not stand a chance on D-day against the full might of Hitler's army. Yes the Americans did help but not for free (you are not idiots). If it was one battle that turned the war against Hitler it was without a doubt Stalingrad. Sure all nations want a part in the victory. Here in Britain they say they won the war and my grandpa told me that if Greece hadn't won against Italy Hitler would not be caught by the Russian winter and would have won the war. Besides the propaganda if you see at the historic facts you ll see that the battle of all battles of ww2 was not fought in Normandy, it was not fought in Albania or Egypt it was by far fought in Stalingrad.
About the casualties well the statistics speak for themselves it is obvious who spiled the most blood in ww2 it was the Russians and the Germans.

Africa? Wtf are you high? Btw I gave three reasons it was the colaboration of the three not one alone. Finally I hear I got it wrong but I see no arguments so please elaborate.

__________________
'Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns — the ones we don't know we don't know.'
Donald Rumsfeld (And then they say that the White House knows what it's doing)

digerati

Africa was where people got the idea of slavery and where slave labor still happens, especially among children, it's a truly sad site.

Stalingrad was the turning of the war, the first big defeat of Hitler's army. Had the Russians not had so many soldiers they would have lost because of their shortfalls (weapons, ammunition, clothing, food).

To say America did nothing in the war is just stupid, if you don't know who General Patton is look him up. Now would the allies have been as successful if the battle of Stalingrad had been lost is something to debate, because it was a refreshment to the hope that the allies could win this thing.

BluntmaN

I didnt say that America did nothing I said that you didnt do it for free in backing of my arguement that after ww2 Europe was a wasteland and all the allies owed incredible amounts of money to the US. I am not blaming America ffs it acted accordingly in ww2 (a bit untimely some Brits argue).

Yes Africa is a big mess and it is sad and it was us (the Europeans) that made it such a mess. But in my arguement I gave slavery as one of the reasons of America's fast growth. Africa was not benefited by slavery at any time. This is why I question zero's mental well being (j/k) when he said Africa in response to my arguement.

Off the topic

Just imagine what would happen if in the middle of ww2 Stalin and Hitler joined forces. Russian numbers with German weapons they could simply divide Earth between them. But thats the problem with loonies they just cannot agree on anything.

__________________
'Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns — the ones we don't know we don't know.'
Donald Rumsfeld (And then they say that the White House knows what it's doing)

zerodamage

The reason I said Africa is because you gave that one of the reasons for America's rise in power in the beginning. My point is that you are wrong. Africa is still in shambles and slavery is still in practice. Slavery had nothing to do America's rise in power.

digerati

That is true, I doubt it would do our economy any good if we gave you expensive free stuff =\. But actually I think the only country that has paid off war debts is Finland o.O

bird chest

Russia lost 20 million men during the war not due to stalin killing people due to people dying from war. Russia won half the war on Germany maybe more. Russia fought the longest land battle with germany by far compared to any other nation. He screemed at US and Britain to help him and open up a new front but we would not do it until d-day. Their was a small one in Italy but was not enough to help. Russians won that war yes US turned the tides but russians lost more man then Germany, Japan, and Italy combined. Russia might have beaten Hitler on its own doubtful but once Russia finally mobolized its force they were hard to stop.