bird chest

I am really scared by the socialist victory in spain not because they are socialist ,which scares me in different ways, but because it seemed that they won because of the terrorist attack. This frightens me because now terrorist may try and attack other countries to influence elections. Just wondering how other people feel about this?

raid517

Well its not so certain that the Conservatives would have won again in Spain anyway. However it's how it looks that is significant - and at least from the terrorists perspective it now certainly looks like it is possible to effect political change through the use of bombs and other terrorist tactics. How more spectacular a victory could they have, other than to force a complete change in a government - and to obtain a commitment to a key demand, which was to withdraw forces from Iraq?

While I do not agree with the motivations behind this war, I think that once you start a fight of this kind, it is a mistake to show your enemy any weakness - because if you do, they will undoubtedly seek to exploit it with all of the ruthlessness and brutality at their disposal.

All this does is increase the likelihood that there will be more attacks - and that they will increase in both their frequency and their severity.

I too can only fear for the future. I don't know what this means - but I am certain that it can't be good.

GJ

MIG-31

just fear the time the uk gets some significant attack(god forbid) as for one i think a prime minister who stands up to his belief's and security for the country is a far stronger person than the few who seem to think ignorance is best.

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Al_Vampyre

The very same thought occurred to me, according to the BBC the Popular party were expected to be returned to power and the attack seems to have changed that. I think the situation in Spain is slightly different to that of the UK though, apparently in Spain 90% of the population was against their involvement in Iraq, in the UK I think it was only about 60%.

But other countries that are involved in Iraq must now be on higher alert especially if there are elections due...

__________________
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit; wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad" - Brian O'Driscoll - Ireland Rugby Team 2009 Grand Slam winning Captain.

bluelight

Its simple.

The Spaniards were fed up withn the rightwing government.

This is what will happen in Usa too so get used to it.

Bluelight

zerodamage

Raid, I agree with you on this one. Very well written.

bird chest

Political views aside can you not see negative responses to this.

Guidoo

Another view to consider:

The Conservative party of Spain rather quickly pointed a finger at ETA (bosque terrorist/seperatist group) .
ETA has been involved in many terrorist acts in the past and was a convenient group to place blame. In addition
I'm sure the Conservative party also felt it would be better to blame ETA rather than an Islamic terrorist group to avoid any backlash for it's involvement with the Iraqi war. In the end it was shown to be a lie, coupled with the fact of who the guilty actually were.

I'm truly curious as to what would have happened if the truth had been told in the first place.

Imagine what would happen here in the US if an elected official were caught in a lie involving national security shortly before an election. That official would probably be out on his/her proverbial arse.

Does this election influence how terrorists wlll react in the future ? Maybe, and thats a big Maybe.
The people behind the attacks in Spain, the US and all over the world are really not concerned with whether a Conservative or Socialist govt is in place. These people will only be happy when the entire world has turned to Islam and is governed by a religiosly based Islamic govt.

Guido

zerodamage

I do not think they were lying actually. You can not tell who is the terrorist group involved until they admit it or some investigating is done. Since ETA has been the primary terrorist group in that area, that is a safe assumption until the absolute truth is known.

bird chest

A very big maybe? I can not say whether or not the concervative party would have won but they were leading until the election. This would make it appear that the terrorists changed the election. If it appears that way then they will try it again!!!!!! Why would they not did they find morals all of a sudden?

raid517

I think voting just got a whole lot more dangerous.

GJ

bird chest

yup

bluelight

No i cant since leftwing politics is better than rightwing politics.

The terrorist problem that you government IS and HAVE been exploiting for soon four years to be able to reamin in power CAN be handled and HAVE been handled by us before.


Spain voted left because tnbe right wing governemnt did not deliver.

They also voted left because theu have a stromng sense for left wing poltics that datews back to the thirties when RIGHT wing politics took over entirely and held the natiuon by its neck for 50 years withg amonst other things torture as a means.


Bluelight

bluelight

No the extremist muslims does not bother with left or right.

They only have up ...or down ...in their perspective.

But of course Bush will now try and sell (and he has already begun ) another version in which Bin Ladin sits on the left shoulder of Kerry.

However...peoples stupidity dont go that far so it wont work.


Bluelight

bluelight

They lied alright.

There were "substantial evidence" (to use a very popular republican expression) that the bombs had been blown by muslim extremists at the time they announced that ETA had blown the bombs.

Bluelight

digerati

It's leftwing politics that got my state into it's hugest debt yet.

raid517

So what's your point blue? Are you saying you support the terrorists? Because you seem to be against everyone else. Don't forget these guys are very, very bad guys indeed. The war in Iraq may have been a distraction, but the main focus of our fight should always have been against these guys. Like someone here said earlier (was it you?) these guys won't be satisfied until we are all living under repressive Muslim governments - much worse than any Republican/Conservative government you can imagine. So how I wonder do you propose we deal with this?

I think we agree that locking people up without charge and using it as an excuse for military adventurism is wrong - but that still doesn't negate the fact that we have a fight on our hands. So how would you propose we deal with it?

GJ

bird chest

well stated raid

bluelight

Are you saying that the spanish leftwing government is in favour of the terrorists? Or that Kerry is?

All im saying is that extremist rigtwing politics will not solve the issué with extremist muslim fundamentalists.

Extreme rightwing politics is what has created the foundation for muslim extremism through its support for imperialism and corporate use other nations assets.
Their ways of fighting terrorism will not work since they incorporate an equal measure of keeping full control over the nations where terror prevails as in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Ultimatly they are NOT there due to terrorism.They are there because they must keep control so that cash can keep flowing back to the motherland.The people of these nations know this of course and thus gives a certain amount of emotional suppoert for people like Bin Ladin.

On top of that...The WAR AGAINST TERRORISM is an invention by the Bush government and should be handled as criminality as it has been in Spain Germany Irland etc etc..

What would it have looked like had Britain declared war against Ira? Is it likely that such action would haven given positive results?

No all action by the British that was similar to this led to further escalation since the Ira has ACTUAL support by Irish catholics.So...what to do? See to it that the problems are adressed at the root of them.

In the case of the muslim world its very simple...stop the western support for the dictators that supply us with oil at the cost of their own people.Stop that and you will have eliminated one big factor in thë growth of terror.

Of course that isnt gonna happen.

We see now how Libya that was considered the filthiests of the filthy ..now all of a sudden due to Khaddafys u turn has become a GOOD nation ( because business is finally done again)...for the people of Libaya though..nothing has changed.He is OUR DOG again...as was the general idea when he came in to power in 69 with the help of CIA.

Declaring a ridiculos "WAR" against something that is not a nation is EQUAL to giving the terrorists EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANT which is being accepted as representatives of something more than the little clique that they are.

In these aspects the Bush administartion has given Bin Laden EXACTLY WHAT HE WANTS.The Bush administration has put him on the piedesal where he ultimatley wanted to sit.

Finally.

The discreditiing by the rightwing government of international institutions and international cooperations which would be the one and single way of handling these issues with anyt success in the long run.

But...of course if they did not they would have to share the control.

That will not happen sa long as the right wing extremists rule since they believe in their own superiority to everyone else and see´s it as God has given them the mission to lead the rest of the world.

Reading the foreign politics policy penned by Rumsfeld is enough to verify that they look upon the world like this.

Kerry will be different.Not much but better and he believes in mulilateral solutions.

That does make a difference and it will raise the level of support for Usa in the world when it comes to these issues.




Bluelight

The_Neon_Cowboy

it's insane how they let the terroists win and get thier way....after such an attack you think they be more agenist terrorism as apposed to backing down and bowing to it....

if it want for the terror attack then the other canadte would of won

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bluelight

Is that so.Please elaborate.

Bluelight

bird chest

I don't care whether you like left or right more bluelight. This is not the discussion. The debate is the victory of the socialist gave the appearance to the terrorists that they can change elections. That is not good

Maiky

Popular party has loose cos they have been lieing four years. They got the election in 2000 with greater part, and they have been obviateing all citizens opinions in four years. Its good to change, and best if they are politicians.
Here in Spain we have a big problem with ETA and now with AlQaeda, believe me when i say that i hunderstand what you feel in USA (or in many places like ours), but our government has lie us with terrorism and with this kind of problem they must be sincere with us.

__________________


All Work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. JACK TORRANCE

bluelight

So what do you wanna tell us ? That the people of Spain should vote against their convictions to please the right wings side and their wiews on the issue?

It hasnt struck you that a socialist goverment in Spain has its own agenda and tbat this is what people in Spain have voted in favour of?

What says rthat the agenda of the right wing side is best?

Nothing.

Bluelight

bird chest

You miss the point. I do not care if the terrorists had the socialist appear to lose the election. The point is it apeered to change the election.

bluelight

And?

Bluelight

bird chest

the terrorists will try and do it again. What do you think about that?

bluelight

Yeah they will .That has nothing to do with the fact that Spain has choosen socialist leaders.

Nor does it have anything to do with Spains demand that the Iraq issue is handed over to the UN where it belonged from the beginning.
Everyone wants to solve the issue.

Usa´s rightwing gov. and Israel and Israels rightwing gov. has for some years forced their way of doing this upon the world.

Does it seem to work?

Do you think the assination of the Hamas leader currently will result in less terrorism ?

No of course not.But then that is not the goal either.They cant be that dumb.

So what remains is that they did it to syop the peace process because that is what the violence that will undoubtedly come will result in.

So..a rightwing agenda...is a rightwing agenda.

Im leftwing.

Bluelight

bird chest

You are correct it has nothing to do with spain socialist leader. So why are you talking about it?

bluelight

Because you said it did.You claimed that the fact that Spain has a socialist government is the same thing as rewarding the terrorists.



Bluelight