raid517

Establish a military base in the Mid Est and exert a military and economic dominance of the region.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...ht/3552737.stm

Bush's chief National security adviser responsible for co-ordinating a response to the September 11th attacks says Bush lied, was obsessed with Iraq and misled the nation over alleged connections with Iraq and Al Quada.

Watch the second report.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsa/n5ctrl/tv.../newsnight.ram

I am interested in any comments you guys might have - but it certainly seems that the rats are abandoning a sinking ship.

It seems those of us who were suspicious were right - and it now appears almost certain that planning for this war had been in the works for a very long time - perhaps even prior to the September the 11th attacks.

I know this is ground that we have visited many times over on this thread - but it is nonetheless interesting to see how over time all of Bush's arguments are falling away and how the real reasons for this war are being revealed.

GJ

PS

You will need real player alternative to play these files.

It would be cool if you guys checked this show out every night as there are often a lot of very interesting reports on it. It is the BBC's premier news program.

You can find out more here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...ht/default.stm

bird chest

I have no doubts this war has been in the planning before sept. 11th. Seeing as bush said he would fix the problem in his election and you need to be prepared for the worst.

raid517

What do you mean? And what 'problem' are you referring to? And which election pledges specifically?

GJ

bluelight

Thanks for the links.There are people that would have demanded that Garner should be charged for treason for telling the truth.

Bluelight

BMG_Cya=-

THE ROBIN WILLIAMS PEACE PLAN

This may very well be the best thought out item we have read since 9/11/01.
Leave it to Robin Williams to come up with the perfect plan .. what we need now is for our UN Ambassador to stand up and repeat this message.

I see a lot of people yelling for peace but I have not heard of a plan for peace. So, here's one plan.

1. The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in their affairs, past &present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini, Tojo, Noriega, Milosovich and the rest of those good ol' boys: We will never "interfere" again.

2. We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with Germany, South Korea and the Philippines. They don't want us there. We would station troops at our borders. No one sneaking through holes in the fence.
No more "Que Pasa Holmes"...or "wassup Essa/SA"

3. All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave. We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days the remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of who or where they are. France would welcome them.


4. All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days unless given a special permit. No one from a terrorist nation would be allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it yourself and don't hide here. Asylum would never be available to anyone. We don't need any more cab drivers or 7-11 cashiers.

5. No "students" over age 21. The older ones are the bombers. If they don't attend classes, they get a "D" (for "deport") and it's back home baby.

6. The US will make a strong effort to become self-sufficient energy wise. This will include developing non-polluting sources of energy but will require a temporary drilling of oil in the Alaskan wilderness. The caribou will have to cope for a while.

7. Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go some place else. They can go somewhere else to sell their production. (About a week of the wells filling up the storage sites would be enough.)

8. If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not "interfere." They can pray to Allah or whomever for seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides, most of what we give them is stolen or given to the Army. The people who need it most get very little, if anything.

9. Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated island some place. We don't need the spies and fair weather friends here. Besides, the building would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.

10. All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way no one can call us "Ugly Americans" any longer. The language we speak is ENGLISH.....learn it...or LEAVE...

Now, ain't that a winner of a plan.
The Statue of Liberty is no longer saying "Give me your poor, your tired, your huddled masses." She's got a baseball bat and she's yelling, "You want a piece of me?"

Now...all you liberals go smoke some more weed...and dream of those conspiracy theories that so entertain
your brain.

raid517

And you wanna know where I think you should go shove that baseball bat?

I guess being a republican means you don't care about whether or not your President misleads you?

Perhaps you think dishonesty is a virtue?

And what has that bunch of ranting nonsense have to do with this subject?

As far as I'm aware Robin Williams is in any case an ultra leftist, I remember him on an advert for president Clinton's reelection campaign - and I read he attended several fund raisers for Gore too for that matter. Hang fire that really doesn't ring true...

Mmm... OK I've done several searches around the Web and it turns out that that pile of garbage was never ever written by Robin Williams. Although several sources attributed it to him, it was not actually written by him. If you ever listened to any of his rants on Comic Relief, you'd know Robin was an ultra leftist who would never espouse such a "horrible", "foreigner bashing" plan. Robin did say the last bit about the Statue of Liberty, which successive people appear to have added to in passing this around the Internet.

Sorry dude - a bunch of right wing ranting pointless nonsense like I said. You won't last long here with weak material like that.

GJ

bluelight

Yeah all of the above would actually be better than what your current rightwing exreme government has got cooking currently.

Unfortunatly for you there will be a democratic government instead of a republican soon.

Bluelight

BMG_Cya=-

Actually I Hate politics. Just wanted to throw another point of view upon the board.

Do I agree with all that? Not all...but some.

Do I really actually care about all this pro-war...anti-war stuff? Not at all.

ZzzombieBunny

If I was a conspiracy theory nutball. Id prolly say its all a cover up to draw attention away from global warming and use the war on terrorism/iraq as an excuse for Bush to pull USA out of the Kyoto Protocol.

But im not, so the most logic reason is still that Bush made a big poopoo, cause really, its the Bush type of thing to do.

At risk of sounding like a communist, id say America needs a president that cares for all its citizens interests, not just the rich *cough*oil industry*cough*

raid517

So you just thought you would throw in your hate filled, made up, misrepresented, uninformed little lie filled grenade (since the person you claimed wrote it never did anyway) and then leave? Ok... Well we have seen plenty people like you before - and not doubt we will again. Make sure you close the door tightly behind you on the way out.

Bye.

GJ

BMG_Cya=-

Life that bad for you is it?

Zardon

everyone relax

bird chest

He said he would fix Iraq and make sure it was not violating any codes or whatever. I do not know what speach or pledge but I do know he ran on fixing Iraq.

raid517

Well I don't remember that - I don't remember that at all. I recall he ran a character assassination campaign against Bill Clinton - getting one of his chief legal aids to make sure Clinton was always seen to be in court, or in the news over the whole Monica Lewinsky thing.

This time I really do think you are making this up. While I believe a plan existed for a long time I think it was a covert plan - and I think the true motivations behind it were kept a closely guarded secret until very recently. Bush certainly never campaigned on the basis that he was going to 'fix' Iraq - by which I assume you mean it was OK that he diverted his attention away from the war on terror and on to a completely unrelated area.

I'm sorry but that just did not happen.

You seem to fall into the category of people, like the 35% of Fox news viewers who still believe that WMDs really were found in Iraq - another clearly nonsensical beliefs.

Let me guess - is it maybe possible that you're a Fox news viewer too?

bird chest

Maybe it did not happen but it is my understanding that it did so if you wana prove me wrong go ahead. By no means do I think it was the focus of the campaign. I do watch fox news, cnn, and all the major news channels. I know no wmds were found in Iraq.

raid517

How the hell can I disprove something that there is no evidence for originally? I can't find statements that Bush never argued that he would invade Iraq during his election campaign - because quite simply he never did. I can't supply evidence for something that never happened. To be frank I think it is decidedly odd that you think I should be able to too. I mean in your mind, how exactly does that work?

It is your assertion so the onus is on you to provide evidence of it. But as I said you won't be able to find any, because it never happened.

GJ

bluelight

That is a somewhat healthy way of living and im not sarcastic saying that.

I mean it.I wish i was like that.

Bluelight

bird chest

You need to calm down raid. Attacking me makes your point no more validated. In fact it makes you seem like a weaker person then I think you are. I know you are very intelligent but when you say stuff like this you sound like a kid. I will look for evidence but I am not sure it ever happened. I jsut thought it did so take a deep breath and calm down.

raid517

Well I already took a deep breath - indeed I took several - and I felt very calm when I wrote that. I didn't feel like I was attacking you - and if you felt that way I'm sorry - but you asked me to prove a point that you made, which was clearly impossible for me to do. As I said the onus shouldn't be on me to prove statements that you make - and it is impossible for me to disprove things that never happened in the first place and which consequently there is no evidence for.

Well anyway maybe it was a mistake - we all make them I guess.

GJ

germanjulian

..... Bush is a lier, Bush only became president because all the companies he his dad and friends own will benefit from him being in charge. (oil companies). Bush is currupt and tries to make money. You people dont read much do you? The only reason why he went to war in Iraque was to get oil and have more control in the middle east. Please go buy the book "Dude where is my Country" by Michael Moore. And no Michael Moore has all his faq's right on this book. He did do a lot of research.

__________________
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bird chest

What businesses does Bush own? By the way when a president goes into office all his personal finances are taken care of by somone else. This way he will not influence the economy in any way for his own gain. No oil companies in the US are benifiting from this so why would bush go to war for oil if it hurts all other oil companies. This creates a greater supply and to get rid of their additional supply they need to lower the price to sell it. So you need to elaborate because your point makes no sense.

Also I do read a lot infact I am reading two books right now. But it seems to me that you need to expand your reading a lot more and try reading some more moderate books.

raid517

Again not true:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/iraq/...825105,00.html

http://money.cnn.com/2003/03/25/news...war_contracts/

Unfortunately they don't seem to be doing a very good job of it:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3545259.stm

Not to worry though, George Bush has simply signed an executive order completely placing his buddies and their oil companies above the law - so that any of the activities they indulge in while in Iraq cannot be punished - and the Iraq people have no recourse in law to complain about it:

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2...f/03-13412.pdf

You can almost just see the oil company execs handing him this document and asking him to sign it.

Very nice.

GJ

bird chest

Thanks for pointing that out. That is rediculous we need to give the oil wells to Iraq and put it under their control. But I have one last question these "american companies" aren't they multi national. Also Iraq could kick them out at any time it would just be a difficult meneuver. If I am wrong point it out.

raid517

Yes but multinational can mean many things. In your case these companies are called 'multi nationals' because they are American owned companies that have offices in several countries around the world - not because somehow they are owned by several countries. (In fact I can't really think of a scenario in which that would happen).

It seems Bush's executive order was signed when it became clear that various oil companies were becoming nervous about the legality of some of their actions in Iraq. (And just in case you didn't quite understand it - it quite literally means American oil companies are not subject to any law - and can't be prosecuted for any of their activities. Which is really very handy because it means that they can just take the oil fields and not pay anyone for them. Undoubtedly they will pump some money into a slush fund to be used to help Iraq recover from the war - but it will mean also that they are firmly ensconced there and cannot be shifted. While they may pay some money to the Iraqis, they personally stand to earn billions from any contracts that are awarded. I don't know what the legality is of just taking property - but in the west it is seen as theft).

And with Bush's stated plan to make Iraq his Middle Eastern power base - it is unlikely that American troops will be leaving the region any time soon.

I don't think that it's really practical for the Iraqis to kick them out. With what exactly? And do you think that the US will just give up and give it to them without a fight, after struggling so hard to take it originally?

GJ

Mellon

Get used to it. That is all that raid does is attack those who he disagrees with. He does this in every thread without fail.

raid517

Is that all you've got? Its all you had last time too. Like I said then, tough... you don't like me. So what?

It actually gives me a kinda warm fuzzy satisfaction to know that.

GJ

raid517

Lol, I see you changed your sig. just for me? Thanks! I wasn't aware I had that much of an impact on you.

BTW It will be a very cold day in an extremely hot place before I click on your links. Still, I hope you enjoyed mine.

GJ

bird chest

The more I think about it though I can't blame the president. OPEC has a monopoly and is selling oil at a high rate. So the pres is trying to counter this buy making a oil industry equal or a threat to opec. But I do not think that it is fair to the people of Iraq. It is a tough question.

Mellon

My point is that you do not know how to debate. In person, you would be chewed up and spit out with the way you act here.

Mellon

Breath, my sig had nothing to do with you or anything you did.
I also do not expect you to read my threads, the facts at those links would counter your shallow leftist view on things.