digerati

The terrorist groups are mad because Spain sent troops to Iraq. They might've put a new political power in that said they'd withdraw from Iraq, and they tried to bomb it again? Oy.

bird chest

Hey I got an idea maybe that is not why they are bombing people that was just there justification.

raid517

No... the ultimate objective is Islamic revolution - that is the overthrow of our own governments and their replacement with Islamic dictatorships. They will not stop until they achieve this objective. It's crazy I know - and most Muslims think it's crazy too - but there you go.

GJ

bird chest

?

raid517

What's with the question mark?

Can't you read what I wrote?

GJ

kp59583

Most muslums may believe there crazy but why don't they turn the bad guys in. If its because there scared, give them asylum in a western country and money to start a new life.

__________________
ATHLON XP 2600+
K7N2G-LISR
512 SAMSUNG PC2700
ACER DVD DRIVE
memorex DVD recorder
WD 80GIG 7200 HARDDRIVE
AUDIGY2 SOUND CARD
4 FANS, ANTEC 350W PWR SUPPLY
ATI 9700 PRO

raid517

How many extremist Muslim terrorists do you know? Ummm let me see... How about none? I don't think I even have to guess here. Most Muslims are just like you and me - they are not part of some massive conspiracy - they are not like the 'Borg' and somehow able to telepathically communicate with each other - so the answer to your question, 'why don't they turn the bad guys in', is because they can't, because the huge majority of Muslims don't bloody know any bad guys to begin with.

I mean comeon - what level of human thought are we dealing with here?

In case you haven't noticed, by far and away the vast majority of Muslims in our culture are productive, law abiding and peaceful people. Just because Christians have the KKK and other extremist groups, you are hardly going to say that they represent all Christians now are you?

The actions of a few extremists are most certainly not representative of the views of the majority.

GJ

bird chest

I was confused because I felt like I was saying what you were saying and you said no. That is what the question mark was about. Cause I agree with you 100% on this.

bird chest

But some muslims do know radicals.

kp59583

I don't think I said I new a muslim extremist but I did know one palistinian that hated Jews with passion.

So what your saying that the tribes in northern Pakistan don't know were bad guys are that are in there territory. Get real. Or other tribes in Afganistan don't. How about the ones in Fallujah. I'm not say every muslim knows what going on every where but you can be sure that there are in muslims that do and don't do anything because there either scared or don't care. Much like people being scared of the mob or KKK during the 50 and 60's. A lot of time people of any race will tend to ignor a problem till it actually involves them.

__________________
ATHLON XP 2600+
K7N2G-LISR
512 SAMSUNG PC2700
ACER DVD DRIVE
memorex DVD recorder
WD 80GIG 7200 HARDDRIVE
AUDIGY2 SOUND CARD
4 FANS, ANTEC 350W PWR SUPPLY
ATI 9700 PRO

raid517

Well those groups you refer to are generally considered extremist groups - and well yes they would know other extremists - so what your asking is 'why don't extremists give themselves up?'

Erm... well what would be the point of that? I mean its not much of an extremist who as soon as they hear that the US army is looking for them suddenly decides that they have lived their entire life in error and then runs all the way to the nearest military police point to hand themselves in. If that were the case, the military could have all their wars wrapped up in an afternoon. Unfortunately that's not how wars work. These people believe they have a cause - they believe that cause is worth dying for - for them death is in any case an irrelevance - because if they do die, they are guaranteed a place in paradise. For someone from a small village in Northern Pakistan who has spent the last 23 years eating boiled stones for breakfast, lunch and dinner and who's only real career prospect is to follow the only remaining village cow around and collect its dung to sell as fuel, I'm sure a career in international terrorism - and the potential promise of paradise - would seem to them like a real step up in the world.

As for people in close vicinity to these terrorists, of course they are afraid. For them these guys are the only law going - and if the standard punishment for jaywalking accross the local overcrowded donkey trail is ritual disembowelment, followed by slowly flaying the skin from their bodies - there would be every good reason for them to be afraid.

But that's not what you said. What you said is why don't 'Muslims hand these guys in' - as if somehow in your mind all Muslims were linked to, or directly knew terrorists.

And your Palestinian friend is not so unusual. I think you will find most Palestinians expressing the same emotions. They are after all receiving similar treatment (though perhaps not quite as harsh) from the Israelis as the Jews got themselves from the Germans in WWII. If your six year old sister, or your mother had been killed in an Israeli missile attack (as happens almost every day in Palestine) wouldn't you feel inspired to want to go out and do something about it? Because if not you're probably a) not human b) not a man and c) neither one of the above

That's why I said before - as I have always said - you can fight terrorists all you want - you can blow them up with bombs and flatten entire villages - but until you understand the causes of terrorism - until you eliminate the conditions under which extremism can be allowed to flurish, you are never going to win any war on terror - no matter how many people you kill.

Anyway I don't see it happening any time soon. Like the Israelis, it seems the Americans have come to believe that bombs are the only answer.

Sooner or later they will learn that all this will do is breed more extremism and new levels of resentment.

It's just a real shame that so many people have to die, before that day is ever reached.

GJ

raid517

Small flaw in your argument there, Fallujah is in Iraq and not Afghanistan.

GJ

raid517

And so do some Christians.

So what's your point?

GJ

BWX

There is 1000 times more radical Muslims than there are radical Christians- That's A point..

__________________

raid517

That isn't a point. That';s just right wing racially motivated BS. Where's your proof? There are 100's of thousands - possibly millions of Muslims living in Europe, the US and elsewhere. And there is only a tiny percentage - I'd guess a fraction of one percent of those who are actively involved in what we term as terrorism.

The only difference between the extreme Christians and extremist Muslims is that most of the Christians are in government - and so don't have to mess about with little half assed bombs.

I mean, why should they bother when they have whole armies to play with? But anyway you do have your own terrorists. I seem to recall that Timothy McVeigh professed to being a profound Christian and that he was acting to defend God and America.

I don't think it is likely he had very much Muslim blood in him, do you?

Like I said, a bunch of biased clap trap - and an insult to the many Muslims in our respective cultures who work hard every day to help make our economies prosperous - and who work harder than most non Muslims to ensure that their kids respect the law.

I should have known a thread like this would have thrown up all the usual garbage on this subject and stayed well out of it.

But man alive, I swear sometimes you guys just open your mouths and burp up the contents of that afternoons lunch.

Pah!

Forget it...

GJ

me.myself.&.ATi

maybe a bit off-topic...
but i recall someone using the following quote as his sig once: "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter"
now, i can't help it, but i strongly see the logic in that phrase....

& to get back on topic...
i agree with GJ when he says that it's an insult to many muslims worldwide who are integrated in whatever state/country they chose to live in
& work hard, like every other christian, jew, buddhist or non-believing fellow....

i don't mean to flame or step on any toes with what i just said....
but between us peepz.....if we keep dissin' each other like this we're only making "whatever" worse instead of solving important things that pass us by....

peace

__________________

"No cause is a good cause as long as personnal interest is of matter." N. Ahdour

BWX

Whatever- A fact is a fact- I don't have anything against anyone but the moronic brainwashed Terrorists that like to create chaos by setting of bombs in trains and running plains into building. Just because they all happen to be brainwashed by the same stupid distortment of a so called religion doesn't have anything to do with "Christians" or "Muslims". That just happens to be the part of the world they come from. Think whatever you want. I guess it would be OK if a Christian or a Catholic or a Jew or a Buddist or whatever went somewhere and blew up a bunch of civilians being a suicide bomber by your thinking because some government is happens to be in a war somewhere? Thats' what you are comparing them to- "if a government can go to war, a civilian can be a suicide bomber"- that's what you just said...
Why the hell do you defend terrorists?
Actually, forget it, I don't even care why you do.

__________________

BWX

So there are more Christian suicide bombers than Muslim suicide bombers? Give me a link to that proof please. It is a distorted religion, not a race of people who are to blame- I guess some people are incapable of understanding that?







Someone would have to be insane to believe that.



Sounds like a racist thing to say speaking of racism?????? I never grouped any one race and said they are better or worse than any other race like that... That statement is ridiculous.




No you are wrong- he was a mass murderer, a terrorists, not a Christian. He was also a liar- probably saying he was a Christian to make other Christians look bad, so people like you could say what you just said.


Someone sounds very angry at "Christians" strange.. define Christian please-

BWX

Posted:
Apr 6, 2004 05:57 PM


Edited:
Last edited by raid517 on Apr 6, 2004 at 06:20 PM


Hmm, lets see when the next time it will be edited.

__________________

raid517

I don't defend terrorists - it just suits your feeble argument to believe I do. I say go after them, catch them, beat their brains into a pulp with an assortment of large blunted objects - but at the same time if you really want to tackle terrorism, if you really want to stop it happening in the first place, then bombs alone are not the only answer. You have to tackle the causes of terrorism as well as the terrorism itself. What is the point of simply treating the symptoms if you don't treat the disease?

How do you do that? Well you do it in ways that Republicans traditionally don't like, by providing schools - by educating the populations of these rouge states, by encouraging trade, by buying from small regional producers in preference to always only caring about the domestic front.

Why should we do this I hear you say? Why should we care? Well exactly because if you don't care, things like September the 11th will continue to happen - and the country you profess to love to much will enter a perpetual state of war - a war that ultimately in pure financial terms is likely to cost far more than simply helping to develop these countries economies and their social/ democratic institutions ever would.

Indeed often given the probable comparative costs involved - it isn't hard to see how some poor kid in Uzbekistan might eventually come to the conclusion that you don't give a damn - and really you just like shooting people.

And if you can't see that - well that is a kind of blindness that I can't do anything to help you with.

To only be able to view the world in one dimension is indeed a most curious and damaging affliction.

GJ

raid517

I edit for spelling and grammar - which is more than some people around here do.

You got a problem with that?

GJ

BWX

I just used your own words-

Oh look at that- you edited the post again since I took this screenshot- I wonder how many more times it will be edited..

BWX

Scared ya

BWX

Are you trying to say something?

raid517

Just as the few random lunatics who call themselves Muslims did what they did? The vast majority of Muslims wouldn't call the September the 11th bombers proper Muslims either. So where exactly do you make the distinction?

Might it be that one group tends to be white, while the other tends to be black?

Because that is the only real distinction I can see here.

And never mind me explaining to you what a Christian is, I know full well what Christians are all about - how about for a refreshing change you explain to us exactly what you think being Muslim means? I mean, for example which parts of the Qur'an do you find differ most significantly from what you think the bible teaches you? For example what do you think of the Qur'an's statements regarding Jesus - and the Muslims faith's rejection of the doctrine of the holy trinity?

I'm just curious what a 'true Christians' obviously informed and enlightened understanding of the Muslim faith's position on these matters really is?

Best regards,

GJ

raid517

Only to stop being ridiculous and imagining even for as much as a millisecond that I would edit a post to do anything in any way to benefit you.

Spelling and grammar chum - after that I tell it like it is - and you can take it or leave it.

I really don't give a damn either way. You really ought to have learned that by now.

GJ

BWX

Randomness.

bird chest

My point is that they are not turning them in. Some people who know radicals and are not radicals are doing nothing in the middle east.

bird chest

I would have to say you are in a dream world if you are saying there are more christian radicals to that extreme then muslims. Do I think it is becuase of the religion? Partly but I think it is more caused by the condition as you said earlier. Bombs do not work so well you are right but we are creating schools in Iraq and afganistan. Bombs are still a necessity the terrorist need to know there will be consequences for their actions.

The Qur'an does allow for holy war and does take a little more militant stance then the bible.

BWX

You're so rad dude.