Falstaff

Images of american dead, in flag draped coffins have been published by the American Media, perhaps to drive home a point about the sacrifice all our young men and women are making overseas. But it is against the law, and now it will become a political football for the left perhaps. Our most precious resource, our young men and women and the service they perform, must not be trivialized by the media, nor should they be forgotten in the en masse efforts by the left to drive home their own political motives. American war dead are sacred to the nation and that is not disputed, but they should not become a mechanism for destructive changes in our own government, lets see if Kerry will use this now.....bloody bastard

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bluelight

Why is it against the law to show reality in Usa?

Are Americans unable to handle reality?


Do they need to be protected from it?

If so ...why?

Bluelight

The_Neon_Cowboy

If i'm not misken isn't it part of the geneva convention? hence international law? I know it was illegal when the iraqy tv station did it.

I dunno mabe some people have some respect for the dead and the soldgiers that gave thier life for country.

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bluelight

No it is definatley not forbidden by any convention at all to publish an image of a coffin draped in flags.

Ill tell you why its forbidden..

It is forbidden to protect government at war from critisicm.

Thats why.

Bluelight

bluelight

Another thing....hiding the coffins is respect?

Hardly.

My dad died 3 months ago.I found him dead at seven o clock i the morning.I carried him out of the house the last time.I went to se him one last time in his coffin at churh.

I didnt hide him ...and i didnt hide myself from the fact that he had died.

No..those laws have nothing to do with respect for the dead.

Publishing images of dead bodies in a disrespectful way is another issue.



Bluelight

Guidoo

Showing a dead body in the street or someone being hung by a mob is disrespectful. But how is showing flag draped coffins being unloaded from a plane by a military honor guard disrespectful ?? That is what the photos that leaked out showed. Should not the entire country ...if not the world be allowed to share in the mourning and grief for these fallen soldiers ? As it stands now many people only hear numbers that mean very little to them. It quite a different story when people can see something rather than not. To me the current procedure is disrepectful. These soldiers deserve to have the entire country mourn for them...and many people can't or won't without seeing something tangible. It would be even better to see these soldiers funerals and share the brief moment to show respect to both the soldiers and their families....but with the numbers involved even televising them on national tv would be a monumentous task.

Guido

bird chest

No the people deserve not to be made into a politcal propaganda. If it were to pay their respects that would be one thing but it is always turned into polotics.

Falstaff

sorry to hear that bluem my condolenses

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Guidoo

To late for that Bird......it already has.....by enforcing a policy that that didn't exist prior to 1991 and it's enforcement till now has been almost non-existant. The Pentagon has turned this whole thing into a PR disaster. You could make your argument in regards to turning things into politics for almost anything. Are you familiar with Supreme Court Justice Scalia ? He apparently does not want any of his speeches or appearances taped/recorded for the same reason. About 1-2 weeks ago 2 US marshalls grabbed and erased the cassete recorders of 2 reporters. Later Justice Scalia apologized for the incident...but it still occured. It is a dangerous thing when our govt tells us we cannot see something. I'm not reffering to classified documents involving national security either. The only real political fallout could be in the negative towards Pres. Bush....and if this this war is the right thing to do then there should be little if any affect. But if the Pentagon is enforcing this to keep Pres Bush from suffering political fallout.....is that right....??

Guido

bluelight

Well that is the price you pay for living in a free society.Had it been Kerry that started the Iraq thing then there would have been republican supporters that would have used the images for political purposes.

The best thing would be to see to it that the overall temerature of the debate on both sides get less feverish.

Bluelight

bluelight

Thanks Jeff.

He´s home now with the lord.Although i must admit that the experience made me loose faith slightly but im pretty sure it will return.

Bluey

Falstaff

Dont lose it man, whether we are left wing or right wing or in the middle, the good lord only knows the soul and the temple it exists in. I nearly lost my father several months ago, He is a diabetic and not compliant, But he is better now, again, I hope your okay....take care Blue

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bird chest

I don't care who mascarades the bodies around it is still wrong. To show them for a national funeral to respect and honor these men would be one thing. But unless I missed the show that has not happened. There is nothing free about the press releasing these photos. What if the men did not want it where is there freedom to choose? What if the families did not want it where is there freedom?

Guidoo

Actually our local newspaper had the photo in question on the front page saturday morning.
The caption read something like this.

"Flag draped coffins of fallen US soldiers aboard cargo plane home from Iraq"

The story then went on to talk about the contoversy surrounding all of this. The story was by the AP and most views were represented. Families, government pro and con. Nothing disrespectful to anyone or their viewpoint. And yes there is always a horses ass in the crowd who will say something stupid.....but that is the price we pay for our freedoms. As far as this not involving free press.....I cant agree with you. These are US soldiers who died fighting war..right or wrong they were doing there duty. Our government cannot be allowed to operate behind closed doors. Regardless of political fallout.

Guido

bird chest

This has nothing to do with the government withholding info. They present you with statistics. There is not reason to show the bodies and their coffins. What does that have to do with the government withholding info unless they did not take care of the bodies after death.

Your newspaper for instance it still talked about the pros and cons of the politics. What is lost here? I feel the respect and honor for men who fought and died for their country.

bluelight

The trouble with statistics is that they are figures.Nothing else.

Figures actually do not say anything at all in cases like this.

If i say...so and so many tens of thousands of solidiers died at Verdun or at other major battlefields of France in WW 1.....or if i say that the ground at Verdun still actually smell of the thousands of dead bodied buried there (which in fact it does when it rains ) then the last statements actually tells us more.....than does the figures.

Also the monument of all the dead soldiers in Vietnam (i think it is in New York) tells us more when we see it than the figures on white paper.

Because ..we are not machines.

We can interpret reality in a good way.We dont need shades.Life is life.

Bluey





Bluey

The_Neon_Cowboy

yea kerry wouldnt be in IRAQ.... and most likely not even in afganistan!


most us news outlets so far have refused to air or print the photo's

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zerodamage

The Vietnam Wall memorial is located in Washington.

bird chest

I agree with you that it has more meaning but there is not reason for us to see it for political reasons and then say the gov must disclose that info. They tell you exactly what they need to the stats.

bluelight

First...Now woildnt that have been great!!!

Second...And this prooves what? That it is wrong to publish a photo of a coffin draped in the Us flag?

Bluelight

bluelight

Thanks Z.Its a very good monument.

Bluey

chaosmaker

bluelight you chose to make your fathers death known in your own way, you did, his family, don't you think the famlies of these dead soldiers deserve the same don't you think they ought to be the first to see them mourn alone, don't you think they should have the right to decide what happens to their family member? You think the media has the right to decide for the families? Let the bodies be returned to their famalies without molestation with some dignity. Let them decide whether or not they want pictures of there loved ones coffins, or is this too much to ask? It is not against the law persay, but an executive order more or less.

bluelight sorry for your loss.

bluelight

Well the coffins arent exactly coming home with names stamped on them are they?

They are coffins draped in the Us flag.Nothing else.

They symbolise to nothing else than a soldier who has given his life in service for his nation.20 coffins in an aircraft symboilises nothing else than 20 dead soldiers.

It is uncomnprehensable for me why that is offensive.

Way to many soldiers die for nothing and are showed away into obscurtity.

If people were allowed to see reality maybe they´d be less eager to send their sons away on meaningless drivel for nothing.

It is though comprehensable that it is not too cool for a government that had as initail plan decided that thenumber of troops in Iraq today would be half of what they are (meaning that their original plan was crap and that their judgements of the situation was crap)

ToshiroOC

thememoryhole.org has copies of these pictures - saddening, but not graphic in any way. I believe that the pictures should be released, but never linked to the names of the occupants of the coffins - there is a line between historical documentation and invasion of privacy, and I belive that is the line.

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[color=White]Peace be with you, Joe.[/color]
Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

kp59583

It wasn't government policy it was Air Force Policy.

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bluelight

Well that is the same thing.

Bluelight