bluelight

Who´s responsable...and not





An Iraqi prisoner and American military dog handlers. Other photographs show the Iraqi on the ground, bleeding.




The New Yorker

MythicaL

That's just wrong...

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Always knew I didn't belong in this world. I wasn't made for this. But I'll never forget those who betrayed me, and those who never failed my trust.

Asmoday

Very, very wrong!! What is it with these so called soldiers???

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bluelight

From a large article in Washington post today that clearly show torture is and was systematic and approved fom above



The CIA general counsel's office developed a new set of interrogation rules of engagement after the Sept. 11 attacks. It was vetted by the Justice Department and approved by the National Security Council's general counsel, according to U.S. intelligence officials and other U.S. officials familiar with the process. "There are very specific guidelines that are thoroughly vetted," said one U.S. official who helps oversee the process. "Everyone is on board. It's legal."






[COLOR=red]The rules call for field operators to seek approval from Washington to use "enhanced measures" -- methods that could cause temporary physical or mental pain[/COLOR]

bluelight

And this is the beginning of "How to reveal where really responsability lies".



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Reservist Followed Orders, Her Lawyers Say

By T.R. Reid
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, May 11, 2004; Page A14


DENVER, May 10 -- Army Pfc. Lynndie R. England was ordered by her superiors to pose with naked Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison, her attorneys said Monday, so that the photos could be used to frighten and demoralize other prisoners.




"People told Pfc. England, 'Hold that leash,' told her to smile, so they can show the photos to subsequent prisoners," said Carl S. McGuire, one member of a team of Denver-area lawyers defending England.

The 21-year-old Army reservist, who was photographed holding a leash tied to the neck of a naked prisoner, faces a court-martial on 13 counts of misconduct.

"They picked her to get the smallest, youngest, lowest-rank woman they could find, and that would increase the humiliation for an Iraqi man," said Rose Mary Zapor, another member of the Denver-based legal team.

In a news conference Monday night, England's attorneys also said that President Bush's public condemnation of the prison guards at Abu Ghraib makes it all but impossible for the accused soldiers to get a fair court-martial.

"The commander in chief is making statements that the client is already guilty and will be punished. We think that is basically unfair, when she is going to be tried by military officers," Zapor said. "We don't want to get involved in anything political, but as a legal matter, the commander in chief acted improperly. . . . We're going to ask the president to cease and desist his comments regarding the defendants."

The attorneys did not identify the superiors they say ordered England to pose for the photos that have stunned the world. But McGuire charged that civilians had "contaminated the chain of command" at Abu Ghraib. He said England had been given orders by "people from the OGAs -- that means, 'other government agencies,' and it's usually code for the CIA, the defense intelligence agencies and similar outfits."

Zapor described England, who grew up in the rural village of Fort Ashby, W.Va., as a "21-year-old girl who joined the Army Reserve right out of high school and worked as a clerk. She was never trained to be a prison guard or military police."

When England was mobilized and dispatched to Iraq last year, the lawyers said, she was given four weeks of generalized training, then ordered to work as a guard at Abu Ghraib.

"The section of Abu Ghraib to which [England was] assigned was controlled by the Central Intelligence Agency," Zapor said.

England came home from Iraq this spring and is now at Fort Bragg, N.C. The lawyers confirmed that England, who is unmarried, is five months pregnant. Zapor said her client has been "scapegoated and vilified" at Fort Bragg. "She has been asking for legal advice since January," the lawyer said. "She tried to obtain counsel around Fort Bragg. None of her calls were returned."

England's family then contacted Giorgio Ra'Shadd of Denver, and he put together the Colorado legal team now representing the soldier. Ra'Shadd went to Fort Bragg on Monday to meet his client and talk to prosecutors about the case. If convicted of the charges against her -- including three counts of assault, involving battery -- England could face 151/2 years in a military prison. Her attorneys said she is not guilty on all charges.

Logla

Regardless of why she did it, she still did it.

here we go again with "I was only following orders"

Danhill

I've read today that some drunk australian soldiers did some nasty & terrible things with kittens and cats, sounded very awful.

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krazy1

I don't agree with what is going on with these prisioners but I will say it is not just the American's doing this. There were reports yesterday that British soldiers were involved also. There are enough problems with everything going on over there, why do people have to add to it.... this is an ugly situation that just got even more ugly....

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bluelight

Yeah the British have so far killed 37 people for no reason at all and this is also confirmend by themselves.

Included was an 8 year old girl that was shot from a army vehicule with a rifleat a time when nothing was threatening the soldiers.

Why add to it?

Well if nobody "adds to it" they will continue doing it.Thats why.

Bluey

zerodamage

Only if there was this much outrage when Saddam was murdering his own people. This pales in comparison to what Saddam did and what many Middle Eastern leaders are currently doing to their own people. The Hypocrisy is overwhelming.

drakesteakn

i see nothing wrong with humillating a person to make them talk. this is a war, yes its not over. but killing prisoners and beating them is out of the question. some of these guards need to be punished. As a Reservist i feel let down by my fellow soldiers.

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bluelight

Yeah i fully agree with you and therefore you should immidietly stop your full support for Saudi arabia and now also Libya (open for business again are we?)plus all of the other dictators that are your dogs in the mideast and that use torture regularly.

That way the hipocricy can have a definite end but asking anyone to stop posting about YOUR torture is a bit to much i think.-

Furthermore...WHO here has posted in favour of Saddam using torture?

I have been here for more than one year and i have so far never seen such a post.

bluelight

The politicians that made way for the use of torture should be trialed first.



Bluelight

drakesteakn

forget the trial, send them to the prisions now, the make me look bad for stuff i am not involved in. it makes the hard working, honest soldiers look like evil monsters.

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zerodamage

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,119615,00.html


Just amazing. Friggin nut jobs.

Guidoo

What Saddam or any other has done or is doing and hypocrisy of others is irrelevent. The issue is that stopping this type of activity, torture..abuse...call it what you will, was one of the big reasons for bringing Saddam down.....now here we are doing the same types of things. The U.S. , Britain and many many other countries are signors of the Geneva Conventions. When we (U.S.) signed this document we basically swore to obey it's guidelines regarding treatment of POWs. The activities which have/are occurring are a direct violation of those conventions. Beyond that.....how could anyone justify treating people this way. We are not talking about some super spy in a movie.....these are real people.

Guido

krazy1

Yea I just read that on Yahoo.... just leaves you speachless.....

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bluelight

Well it was expected .

Bluelight

mike2h

of course it is expected. these type of things are part of life in some of the mid eastern countries.

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zerodamage

You are right. They did it before 9-11, did it on 9-11, did it shortly there after 9-11 to the "Wall Street Journal" journalist, cut his head off too, and they still are doing it. Bunch of evil animals still thinking this is the cave man days.

bluelight

Yeah...evil animals are everywhere.Everywhere.Some of them wear suites.

Bluelight

GOG

Uhmmm, your President declared a state of truce several months ago

digerati

Any human can be an animal.

But it takes the middle east to make a demon look like child's play.

RDoggy

All this uproar over pantys over some guys head.And some naked cheerleader pyramids.



[SIZE=x-large]Not one word about a young american without a head![/SIZE]

raid517

Well I guess it's about standards. Either you represent the free world or you do not, either you represent the best of what civilisation brings or you do not, either you believe in human rights and the right to human dignity for all, or you do not. You can't imagine you are better them or that you are above such behaviour yourself if your govenment and your military indulge in the same tactics. You may consider what happend to the guy that got beheaded barbaric, but you have to understand that there is a cutural difference here too. He was murdered undoubtedly - but he was killed in accordance with the practices of sharia law. And all things considered, it's a little late for America to start complaining about sharia law - as this is what has been practiced in Saudi Arabia for decades - while the US convieniently ignored what this meant for human rights in the Mid East. You tollerated these practices before - and now it is accepted as 'normal' - but now suddenly because it is an American who dies you all make a big noise about it. A phrase springs to mind in this respect - and that's that you reap the wind you sow. I feel sorry for the guy and his family - but like blue said, this was always going to happen - as was all of this.

This war will never end. Even if the US leaves Iraq it will go on until something truly horrible happens. There is too much hatred now. That I'm afraid is the reward for 60 years of double standards.

GJ