Widkidone

Here is the link: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...prisoner_abuse

What a load of BS!!!! HMMMM...what is worse 3,100 lives destroyed or Iraqi rebels that have killed or tried to kill American soldiers being abused? You pick.

__________________
Case- Cooler Master ATC-201B-BXT Aluminum Case
Power Supply- Antec 480w TrueBlue480 ATX-12V
MX518 Mouse
CPU- AMD Athlon 64 processor 4000+ (2.4GHz) Socket-939
Motherboard-K8N Neo2 Platinum
2 GB DDR (2 pcs 1GB) PC-3200 (400) OCZ Dual Channel Platinum
Hard Drive- WD 74GB 8MB 10000rpm S-ATA WD740GD
Sound Card- Creative SB Audigy 2 Zs Platinum
CDRW- LG GCE-8525BI 52X32X52 CD-RW
OS- Microsoft Windows XP Pro Edition w/SP2
Video-Radeon X850XT AGP 256MB

PoopyTheJ

well yeah that is a load of Bs comparing those two is ridiculous. Of course if you want to say who has the deaths of more civilians on theri heads well the US does win that one, way more civilians killed by the US then 9/11.

__________________

zerodamage

It's utter stupidity. Common sense is a rare attribute for most people.

zerodamage

I would love to see you back up that one.

BiGBrOwNPimpsta

rofl, vatican had too much of the "holy water" i think

__________________
Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Music | Logitech Z-5500 THX 5.1 Surround Sound Speakers | 2 Lite-On 20x S-ATA Burners | Logitech G700 Mouse | Logitech MX5500 Bluetooth Keyboard

Logla

Especially the Catholic Church.

Rasta Monsta

Right here. . .

rasta

__________________

PoopyTheJ

Thanks Rasta. Wasn't what I had in mind exactly but right along the lines.

__________________

Widkidone

yeah but what is worst 3,100 people killed or 50 Iraqis being abused from wearing women panies to using dogs to scare them and tell where are the Iraqi rebels that are trying to kill American soldiers. Hmm i would have to say 3,100 deaths out numbers the number of abused Iraqis.

__________________
Case- Cooler Master ATC-201B-BXT Aluminum Case
Power Supply- Antec 480w TrueBlue480 ATX-12V
MX518 Mouse
CPU- AMD Athlon 64 processor 4000+ (2.4GHz) Socket-939
Motherboard-K8N Neo2 Platinum
2 GB DDR (2 pcs 1GB) PC-3200 (400) OCZ Dual Channel Platinum
Hard Drive- WD 74GB 8MB 10000rpm S-ATA WD740GD
Sound Card- Creative SB Audigy 2 Zs Platinum
CDRW- LG GCE-8525BI 52X32X52 CD-RW
OS- Microsoft Windows XP Pro Edition w/SP2
Video-Radeon X850XT AGP 256MB

The_Neon_Cowboy

yea that doesn't exactly count... considering they drug us into ww2 , so our loses would be all those in ww2 it put a final stoper in that war


also note the millitary stucturs are commonly surrouned my masses of civillions. for exaple there is a small base here a sort of a depo that stores tanks, jeeps hummers etc. It right next to a hotel, a bar, a watter treatment plant for the city, two car lots and some houses.

you cant honestly tell me it could be bombed so persisely with dumb bombs and planes of that erra high altatude, that you wouldln't have civillan deaths in the masses...

a nuke it a pretty leathal weapon it kills everything it it's blast zone. now aday that a game not to be played...

__________________

zerodamage

You were talking as though you are referring to recently, like in the last 20 years or so. The Atomic bomb was used to save more lives that what it would have taken to end the war via conventional means. This of course can not be proven, however it seems likely considering how many died before it was used.

Rasta Monsta

Civilian deaths on the US's head, was all that was said.

Yes, it was wartime, yes there was a rationale for doing it, but that doesn't mean the US didn't do it. . .

rasta

p.s. Neon, you would be more persuasive if you spelled. . .

__________________

dpagan

cvivlian death's! how about the death camp's good o germany had, not to mention the way they where killed (slowly) women and children.

blow me up shoot me in the head (if you can find me, that's if i don't get you first but gas me or roost me, no thanks i'll pass

zerodamage

Watch that recent video and believe me, you do NOT want to die that way.

dpagan

if you're talking about the beheading i've watched it, i still can't get it out of my head.

ZzzombieBunny

*cough*Hiroshima*cough*

Not to mention its estimated that between 21 000 - 55 000 iraqi civilians have died due to the US invasion of Iraq (mostly due to lack of healthcare, police and so on)... thats NOTHING compared to how many Saddam killed though. The US army doesnt keep counts on bodies though, at least they say... but im pretty sure like 50 years from now they will have excat numbers on deaths.

But I dont understand what 9/11 and the Iraq war has to do with eachother. "war on terrorism" since when has Saddam actually killed anyone except his own people?


Although I have to say, torture cant be dismissed so easily, its a vile act against human rights. Everyone knows the US army does excersize torture when necessary, but I never thought it was done on sucha low rank level for no real purpose than to degrade and humiliate. Did those morons for soldiers ever think how their allies would be treated when captured by the enemy after this kinda stuff came out. Already theres terror organizations who have kidnapped americans and tortured and murdered them and sent tapes to various tv stations.

bluelight

Yeah they are right of course.

Al Quaida wasnt expected to do much else than slaughter and thats what they do atill.

Usa was NOT expected to torture..and thats what they do.

They have done so sytematically both in Iraq and Afghanistan and the reports from Afghanistan is entering media now although they have been there to see for some time.



So..yeah they were right.

This is also the basic problem in the future of the Mideast escapades.

Credibility.

Such is not built with this no matter if it is a system fault or not.

It just should not happen.

This is also why it is not surprising that Al_Nutters uses the occasion to manifest by doing the ghastly deed they just did.

They use Usa´s torture to justify it....and...it works well with...SOME...illiterate morons in the mideast.

Those illiterate morons would have served better on the side of Usa.

Bluelight

bird chest

Ther are both horrible and terrible I do not see why people compare them. Just because one is worse does not justify the other. Has america out right apologized for the torture yet? Because we need to.

mainman

I would really love to coment on this subject but this is the political debate and not the Flame Warzone, meaning i can not coment on the maner that i would like.


I would only say one thing, America should STFU, cuz they are not little inocent angels that never do any harm to others and only want to "help" the world.


Be good,

mainman

__________________

drakesteakn

Every country uses tourture like what u see, but only now can u see the true side of war, its nasty and thats what happens in every war. its because of the pictures and movies that went to TV stations that made it such a big scandle. i think some of it is perfectly fine, but murdering and beating people is deffinately wrong. no doubt about it.

__________________

The_Neon_Cowboy

Yea in the churches eyes its worse because 9/11 sent people into churches praying, and increases funeral services boy the church saw a lot of money... a churches are business now days

have faith and open your wallet my son, or buy this religious perapanaelia etc for an exuberant price… Higher up in the priest hood you are the richer you are. You should see some of the high million dallor houses the guys have. Driving around in limos and lavish comfort …

I’m guessing the church is hoping or some Iraqi converts $$$$

__________________

Guidoo

For those of you who are bashing the Catholic Church over this article.

Have you read it ?............I did..

It implies that this situation is bigger than 9/11 because the US has lost it's moral highground.
In addition this has stirred anti-christian/anti-west hatred in the arab world....can anyone deny that ?

It does not say the US is worse than those who perpetrated the events of 9/11.

Guido

Logla

Churches have always been a business. They've always tried to brainwash you into giving them your money.

dpagan

i agree, i also believe many things where taken or added to the bible just for there own convenience, killing in the name of GOD i don't beleive in that.

ZzzombieBunny

I think people are missing the big point here though, we all know Al-Quaida and other terror organizations dont act with the best interest of human rights. Thats why they are TERROR organizations!

But when a democratic nation like America has its soldiers pulling of the kinda stuff they did in Iraq, its just a violation of all human rights and laws of war. Your not supposed to torture prisoners of war.

I read the US Senate where shown all the materials of the tortures in question and some of them even broke down crying. I just cant see how anyone could rape female prisoners with various objects. What the hell is going on down there!?

bluelight

Trouble is that some christians think that torture is ok.

Rumsfeld defended the use of it today.

I dont know if this is proof of lack of intelligence ,lack of capability of being tactic or if he really believes it works.....Personally i believe its a combination of all three and also since they have agreeed to the use of torture as a mathod they cant sit today and say tey were wrong so they say things like..."well its ok to torture ...some ..people but not others...." and stuff like: The Geneva convention and other similar international agreements are applicable only to some.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Below is a statement he made in the Bagdad prison today which clearly shows that they now intend to dump all the blame on others than themselves.That campaign is now at full throttle.
This is significant for lousy politicians.

Rumsfeld himself has both endorsed the use of harsh metods and he is responsible for sending non trained people to do a job for which they were not fit...with dim instructions that could be interpreted anywhich way you liked.It is also A FACT that the prison was run by the Cia in reality...so he ought to stop balling so much nonsense and resign as fast as possible.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The test is what is decided and what is issued, and then is it adhered to?" Rumsfeld said. "And what we know is that the lawyers cleared what was issued down through the system. What we can't know at any given moment of every day is whether each person is executing them consistent with what was approved by the lawyers down through the system."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


He says "decided"....well IT WAS DECIDED from above that the personell should use torture.This has been prooved.What his lawyers has to say about that is totallt irrelevant.The methods approved of by him violates the Geneva convention.




Bluelight

bluelight

He also took a walk inside the prison.One of the prisoners had been holding a paper that had "What will you so about the situation?" or something similar.

How absurd.....he didnt come there for the sake of any prisoners.
'

He went there for votes.

Bluelight

The_Neon_Cowboy

well that how other similar but are based on the original religion...

for example the lurthen church was founded by a king who wanted to divorce his wife and there was no provision in the bible or church that allowed it marriage is and was permanganate he created his own church so he could divorce his wife since he still cared for her somewhat. because the past time easy out was to have your wife beheaded or killed! till death do you part!

That how we have divorces and fluke marriages today. But little do they know if the fallow the bible it doesn’t matter what we say, once you say i do you bonded for life and to divorce and marry another is then a sin (adultery)...

Other churches we founded with a different solution to the marriage problem allowing them to marry and have several wife’s even with in their own families! Which is now a days consider illegal but is practiced in some areas such as Idaho

All these different churches have made have twisted the bible to their own ideals.
No offence meant but some churchs such as the Mormans just whipped their own religion from thin air lol

__________________

bird chest

No real christian thinks torture is ok! "he who is without sin cast the first stone." This has nothing to do with religion validating it this is people screwing with religion to make it ok in their head. No place in the bible does it say it is ok to torture, kill, hurt, etc... So I ask all of you plz stop blaming the religion and start blaming the people who scew and deface the values of religion by using them to justify terrible action.

bluelight

I havent blamed religion as such .I have blamed people that claim to be religious and who´s acts arent according go that.

Today Wolfwitz said after haveing been pressured REAL HARD (he tried to sneak away but didnt manage) that:

Wearing a hood in tissue naked for 72 hours straight (something that your government and your military throigh General Sanchez has accepted as ok) is NOT HUMANE and followingly not according to the Geneva convention.

Now...that is a minor form of abuse that your government has both invented and used the last two years.Other ways that is accepted ON PAPER IN WRITING is denial of food etc etc etc...Lighter forms of torture that ARE NOT in accordance with the Geneva convention.

This government consists of several DEEPLY christian people.

Christian?

Hardly.

Bluelight