raid517

Well I don't like her much myself - but I think that the level of her popularity is indicative of something more significant. And that is that a lot of men do look - but don't touch - a lot do fantasize and it is wholly irrational and illogical to class everyone who dose a pedophile or a pervert. Another example I could give is Britney Spears, who again for much of her early career was below the US legal age of consent. How then if this is a one off thing (although it would have to be some bizarre instance of an isolated case of mass hysteria) can you explain shortly after her first big hit, 'Oh Baby he did me again' only a few days later every major porn site on the web had photoshopped images of her, complete with schoolgirl uniform, showing all that anyone might care to see? How come she also became one of the most downloaded images on the Internet?

I am not too up on the pop science, but I'm sure that there are many other examples of similar behavior.

face it. You either have to admit that almost all men are pedophiles - or give up this nonsensical definition of what being a pedophile means.

GJ

zerodamage

This link: http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Paedophilia Is the only credible link there. Homosexuals are not a Minority. They are not a race. So the other links are not worthy of a response.

As for that link there. Some great information there. It however doesn't void the links I posted. I posted no less than 10 credible links with the definition of Pedophilia. Websters and Encarta are two of them, and I am quite sure they are 2 of the most respected in that area.

And let me quite a part of the link and make a point about it that you should pay attention to.
This is where this whole link loses me. There is NO proof that this is a sexual orientation. I wanted to be a psychologist at one time and I am glad I chose not to be one. Most of it is nonsense and guessing. There is no true and true proof with such a profession. I will post more about this later when I have time. I have some work to do.

zerodamage

You are not listening Raid. Read the link you posted. Being aroused by a child doesn't make you a pedophile. When your sole attraction IS children, then that makes you one. Not because Spears and the ugly Tennis star became sex symbols. You are assuming and not being logical. Not all men lust over Spears and said tennis player. You are assuming that every man visits porn sites. Lots of assumptions by you Raid and nothing to back it up.

bluelight

Posted by ZeroD
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Based on the government's own statistics -- the "Statistical Abstract of the United States, 1992, Data on Boys and Girls," published by the U.S. Commerce Department -- Reisman cited the following for that year:

* Of 86 - 88 million heterosexual men, 9 percent of them victimized 8 million girls under age 18, which constitutes 25 percent of all girls.


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[COLOR=red]* An uncertain percentage of the estimated 2 million homosexual men victimized 6-8 million boys, under age 18, amounting to 17 - 24 percent of all boys.[/COLOR]

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* Therefore, considered in the aggregate, 3 to 4 boys are sexually molested per homosexual adult male.

* Only .09 girls are sexually molested per heterosexual adult male, which is to say that, on average, 1 in 11




According to these figures 25 percent of all "men under 18" in Usa have been "victimiced" in Usa.
They also say 25 percent of all girls have been "victimiced"

Can you give me a direct link to a Us government source?

What exactly IS victimiced?

It is the fifth time im asking you to verify this bullshit.


Bluelight

raid517

I think you are reading too much into the term 'orientation'. Orientation simply means a preference towards a specific mind set - whether that be biological or psychological in origin.

Clearly all true pedophiles are indeed mentally ill - it is by no means a normal or acceptable life style.

In any case if even the definition of the guy who invented the term and the psychological study of pedophilia isn't good enough for you, then I'm certain nothing will be. You clearly feel yourself sufficiently qualified to invent your own definitions, regardless of whether you have any training or academic experience of the field. (Which clearly you do not).

As for the other links I posted - I wouldn't have even bothered, because ultimately it is a pointless game. Most decent minded people can already spot the nonsense you spout for what it is without any additional help from me - but just to reassure you that other perspectives really do exist out there - other than those few you shoehorn into meeting your own views, I posted what are on the whole widely reported and extensively reproduced articles that have been posted several times in a variety of respected scientific and medical journals. The fact that you don't like them is neither here nor there - the point is that they contradict fundamentally you own home made viewpoint on what you believe pedophilia and the pathology of pedophilia to be.

And I don't know what you mean in your other post. But I am certain it isn't just Britney Spears, or Anna Kournikova - indeed I'm certain a brief perusal of the charts would turn up many other attractive young adults that grown men and grown women lust after alike. These two people are hardly isolated incidents. We have had celebrities since time began - and there is no example of some kind of artificial barrier being proposed to limit people's attraction to them. And if we do it with people in the media, then why not your next door neighbour's daughter, or the pretty young girl who passes you in the street? As I said why not indeed? We all do it (except you who appears to have some weird aversion to admiring pretty girls) and going by all reasonable definitions it is hardly approaching anything near what could be described as pedophilia. It is just normal healthy human sexual interest (which if we are to believe your perspective, is something you completely lack).

I am not at all assuming every man visits porn sites - however I would assert that the majority of men who have Internet access have visited at least 1 porn site in all their time online. (If you are reasonably net savvy though you quickly learn that most porn sites are run by criminals and are purely out to fleece you of all your money. So no, not all men, including me do visit porn sites. Although many men still search for images of attractive young celebrities - be they on porn sites or otherwise. Guys like to look at pretty girls. Is that really such big news to you?

But anyway, at least you quoted from the link and now appear to be accepting that admiring young adults in a sexual way is not pedophilia. Even if this is your sole interest - unless you are attracted solely to prepubescent children, it is still not pedophilia. It is certainly inappropriate and we should not do anything to 'legalize' sexual relationships between adolescents and adults, but we should take care to recognize too that not all such relationships can always be conveniently termed as 'pedophilia' either. Sometimes these relationships do happen - and it is up to the law and qualified individuals to debate over the merits of each individual case.

Surely this is a much more sensible approach than your way of dealing with it, which appears to be to round everyone up who even looks admiringly at a minor, so that you can then flay the skin from their backs and burn them at the stake?

All I can say is its a good thing that all the people here have been so patient with you this far.

GJ

zerodamage

Maybe you forgot the 12+ links that I posted including Encarta and Websters. No, I am not making up anything. I am basing everything on knowledge I've acquired by you and everyone else who have participated without insult the last couple of pages. I applaud you on that. I can really tell that you are really fighting the urge to.

I am not denying the original definition out of hand mind you. I do think however that physical age and puberty is the only factor. How many 16 year old girls and boys do you know that are really mature and mentally and emotionally ready for sex. How many are vulnerable and easy prey for adults who know better? They just are NOT adults yet, regardless of puberty. Some may be but the majority just are not.

bird chest

I did not promote any of the things you said. If they have their own kids that is not for me to say. But I just don't want a gay couple to be able to adopt. Sorry but that is the way I feel. I have thought about it for lots of time and it is just one thing I could not except.

bird chest

you guys you are both right. You guys are saying the same thing. Zero is saying that somone who likes exclusivley girls under the legal age and is out of their age group is a pedophile which is true. Somone who thinks one exceptionally mature girl under the legal age does not make them a pedophile.

ToshiroOC

'sup?

I kid, but I do like the debate I'm seeing here. I can't think of anything of substance that hasn't already been covered right now, and we've done it without a flamefest

__________________
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[color=White]Peace be with you, Joe.[/color]
Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

mainman

Tosh if been reading this thread for quite some tome now and its simply amazing how this didnt turn in a flamefest...i agree with you lets keep discussing this topic in the same maner as it has been discussed till now.

__________________

bluelight

Well...Zero D.

I take it then that you claim that 25 percent of Usa´s male population has been raped by homosexuals and that 25 percent of its female population has been raped by hetereosexual men


Amazing.

The highest rape rates in the world.

But then questioning such figures show my lack of common sense.


Bluelight

bluelight

Well we havent been informed about if Zero D REALLY believes that 25 percent of Usa´s male population has been raped by hmosexuals...which is what his qoute says.


Bluelight

raid517

Well all I'm going to say is that it seems to me Mr Zero is misinterpreting ideas and principals that have been laid down through many years of study. A short few lines in some popular encyclopedia or other taken out of context may indeed be all he needs.

Lets look at one of his 'definitions.'

Encarta:

Where exactly does this disagree with the original definition given for pedophilia? What it says is child and not 'minor', not adolescent, not teenager or whatever. It is obviously ambiguous - but that is simply because it is so brief. It makes no attempt to define what a child is, or when this period of childhood ends. However the legal, medical and psychological definition of childhood (although it is not a set in stone process) is that the first phase of human development - or childhood - usually ends somewhere around 12 years old, after which young people enter a second stage of development which is adolescence. Now clearly adolescence is not quite childhood and it is not quite adulthood, it is something inbetween that. It is throughout this period that young people develop their adult like attributes - and unlike you appear to imagine it is again no hard and fast thing. There is clearly no set pace of development that each person experiences at any precise or given moment. Each young person develops differently - at their own individual pace. That in any case was was I was taught in biology and psychology 101 in school. I'm not at all sure what you were taught - but given your apparent convictions I wouldn't be surprised if you went to a school were sex education and all talk of the process of sexual development was banned - since you appear to have such a poor understanding of the issues in general.

Ask yourself if you will, if people under the age of 16 must always be defined as children, why so many of these supposed 'children' engage in full concentual sex with each other? If you are defining childhood as a period whereby people of a given age are not ready for sexual activity, then clearly many people in the 13 to 16 year old age group do not fall into this category. You are trying to make a square peg - which is your definition of childhood - fit into a round hole - which is the reality of adolescence, which is a different phase of development entirely.

People in this age group do have sexual thoughts and do have sexual feelings - and it is just plumb ignorance to deny this. This does not mean we should condone any adult who shows a continued and persistant sexual interest in people within this age group, but it also does not mean that we can condemn them as pedophiles. We can say they are wrong, that it is immoral and we can all agree that anyone who does cross this line should be punished, but going by the formal definitions of pedophilia and by the physical realities of adolescence, simply calling them pedophiles is an extremely wrong headed and short sighted thing to do. Of course someone who habitually preys on young people under the age of 16, does deserve some special attention from the authorities - however as we have seen, this is rare, since the true pathology of a pedophile is someone who shows a distinct sexual interest in prepubescent/very young children.

How did we get here anyway? Oh yeah this Zero guy stated that the gay journalist who said that sex with a 15 year old boy wasn't pedophilia was wrong - and that in his view it very much was pedophilia. Well as it turns out, the guy was just stating a view derived from commonly accepted medical and psychological data on this subject. It may be wrong - but it isn't always as straightforward to define it as pedophilia, particularly in cases where any such sexual contact was consensual.

Of course what makes it most difficult to bare for Zero, is that this guy is gay. That's it. Period. We can all pretty much stop there. Zero just doesn't like gay people and will do everything in his power to demonise their lifestyle - regardless as we have seen, of whether it is true or not.

Best regards,

GJ

PS

Is it just me, or do any of you guys think our GF's and wives should be writing this about this? I mean guys are supposed to just fart and drink beer - not talk about sex and feelings and stuff. Mmmm beer... Now why did I have to think about that right now.

JavaFox

I'm done with this debate. If someone honestly thinks that the dictionary is a valid resource in a debate about mental disease, who am I to speak the truth?