raid517

No I don't think anyone can be goaded into 'flaming' - but it is possible to loose patience with it, or to get angry when someone says something really quite personal about you that is clearly and blatantly untrue.

But anyway I agree that running to moderators and complaining that 'he said this' or 'she said that' is extremely childish - which is why in over two years I have never done so before.

I would rather debate calmly and rationally - but this can be hard in the absence of any real ground rules. For example it may be permissible in America to open your mouth and say pretty much whatever you want - but in many other cultures this is viewed as being morally unacceptable. While free speech is a right we should all fight to defend, that branch of 'free speech' that seeks to promote hatred, racism, homophobia and religious intolerance as normal and acceptable attitudes is something that many developed cultures have seen fit to curtail. Freedom of speech as with freedom in general implies both rights and responsibilities - and part of those responsibilities is to ensure that the things we say and do do not harm the freedoms of others within our society.


That is why in many countries laws do exist to forbid such things as incitement to racial hatred, openly anti-gay statements, or statements liable to offend people of a different religious persuasion.


I'm not saying these rules should exist here too - that is a decision for Zardon and others - but what I am saying is that in my view it might be no bad thing if they did. Without some kind of guidelines what we have is chaos - and this we have seen again and again on this forum. I know some Americans are especially fond of this apparent right to say whatever they might please - but perhaps it is worth considering that this is not just America and that there are forum members from all around the world here - and in these countries we do not defend people's rights to spread mistrust, ignorance and hatred.

And if someone did complain that they thought they were posting on a 'leftist' forum - because they couldn't say openly racist, homophobic, or religeously intollerant things, or if they decided to leave because they felt this aspect of their 'freedom of speech' had some how been restricted - I would say that any serious political forum would be quite plainly better off without them.

I'm not telling anyone to run a forum - but these things seem to me to be fairly 'self evident' if any kind of order is to be preserved. Simply telling people not to call each other names is clearly not enough - as they will simply find other ways to offend those they do not like.

Again if I am out of place in saying this, feel free to let me know. But better guidlines on individual conduct would at least let everyone know where the line is - and what will happen if they cross it.

Just my 2c worth.

GJ

zerodamage

You see, Raid does exactly what he says he doesn't do. The indirect reference that this must be a left wing forum because people are not allowed to spew homophobic and racist stuff which is a pile of crap. I have never said anything ever homophobic or racist, yet I've been accused of such things without so much as a warning to these guys. Raid himself made referene to me being in the KKK and a racist and claiming I said things I never did. What is most irritating is that this has been allowed for so long that these people think what they were doing was right.

Raid in nearly every post makes an indirect reference to someone like myself being a homophobe and a racist dispite proof otherwise. Even in his last post he makes reference to this and of course he is allowed to do so. It is ok that he say Christians are all hypocrites and that he hates them all. I guess that is ok and there is nothing bigotted about that. How anyone can say such hypocritical things for so long and never be called on it or seen for what he is, is beyond me. Maybe it is the fact that the majority of those posting in here are non-American's and it is easy to hate America since that feeling has been protrayed in here for so long. Even the moderator of this forum has defended this which would NEVER be allowed on any other political forum. I've moderatored one and know the difference between freedom of speech which is allowed and trolling and flame baiting which happens in nearly every thread in here.

I am basically just rambling on here because I seriously do not know what to say to blue and raid's last posts. I look at Blue's and Raid's posts and know they are both bullshit and are saying that because the site owner and a moderator are actually looking at the posts. I've spent some time reading through a majority of the threads in here and I've seen the same thing from both of these guys without fail is in just about every thread they've posted in and anyone else who's ever disagreed with them received the same treatment. They've been warned with a slap on the wrist more times that I can count yet continue the nonsense. This type of behavior would NEVER be allowed in any other forum on this site. If anyone ever disagreed for example what ATI did with the drivers and someone started to call him an Nvidiot because he disagreed with ATI , that person calling him an Nvidiot would be warned if not banned right away for trolling. There is no difference in political debate. There is a left and a right wing just like there is an Intel vs AMD and a Nvidia vs ATI. The difference is that lies, false accuastions, and the other crap is allowed in here and not in any of the other forums. The same rules should apply in here that applies to the other forums. If you start calling someone a racist, whether it be directly or indirectly you should be banned. That is the worst thing you can do to someone. Falsely accuse them of being a racist when they are not just because you disagree with their view. You have no option but to defend yourself when the moderators do not put a stop to it and put out there exactly what was done is wrong. To not do so would be an admission of guilt in this instance.

You can see what I mean in regards to false accusations in this thread here: Here and you can see how the insults and references continue for a good 2 pages. Posting documented biological facts can make you a racist and a member of the KKK. That is an insult if there ever was one. All in this same thread Raid says he hates Christians and insinuates that to be a Conservative is to be for Right Wing Fascist dictatorships. I've been told that I am more right than Hitler and Darth Vader. It is ridiculous but it has been allowed in here for a very long time.

I'm assuming most people here are left leaning. That doesn't make what Raid and Bluelight have been doing right at all. This wasn't allowed on the conservative message board I moderated, and the rules applied to both conservatives and liberals/socialists, communists, whatever. The equality in the rules is not happening here.

zerodamage

To quickly post back on topic. I think a religous overview should be taught in school about all of the major religions. The problem is that christianity is banned from schools and government in general. So that isn't possible unless those laws get revoked.

bluelight

MY post is ...bullshit? BULLSHIT?


Well......bye bye Z e r o





Bluelight

raid517

I didn't say I hated Christians - for the last time I said I didn't like them - and in particular those of that particular brand of Christianity that preach intolerance of others.

However as I said I would still defend to the death their right to exist and to preach and practice as they pleased, *providing* that they were willing to do the same and to allow everyone else to live and practice according to their own consciences too.

Contrast and compare. I believe Christians should be allowed to practice freely, in the absence of persecution and other unfair forms of discrimination. Do you ZeroDamage believe the same should be true for gay people, or Muslims - or Mexican immigrants, or "leftists" or other people from other cultures?

The rest I didn't read. Sorry.

GJ

bluelight

Drop it Raid.

He ...IS out to bait you.

Bluelight

Zardon

The rules on Driverheaven are my decision - and at the end of the day I make the calls on "trolling and flamebaiting" the moderators follow my instructions. You have had several warnings quite clearly stated already. This isnt open for debate and no matter how many posts you make stating your case you continually flame, this is unacceptable, my patience with this is long gone.

I have explained this situation to you several times and yet you come back saying someones posts are "bullshit" - this is NOT what I had stated you should do therefore you will now be removed from this forum.

When you calm down and get control of your temper you have the admins email addresses, we can review this at a later date.