Some facts on Leftists and Racism

Falstaff

Hitler had been taking injections for fatigue, pain and as a tonic for his health, during the most violent years of pre WW2 German nazism, he was tireless, getting injections daily of a cocktail that can best described as addictive in any context. Pres. Kennedy was as well, for years for his various ailments and I often wonder if it was the doctors medication that pushed these guys over the edge. Both of these men were so influenced by the medication that they took, that it gave them sexual pleasure to a certain extent, odd I know, but interesting to note.

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raid517

Erm.. well that's a different perspective Jeff. Not sure where you're going with it. But it is different.

GJ

bluelight

A final note....on the issue...

I urge Zerodamage to present his "facts" that says Hitler was a socialist at any of the existing Neonazi groups meetings that continually occur both in Europe and in Usa.


Im sure they will be very pleased and also somewhat surprised to know that they are socialists deriving from the political ideas of Karl Marx.

Im not taking any responsability for their reaction to his information though should he present it in ...person to them.


Bluelight

raid517

Erm... no this is a non issue... if you read those links I posted it is clear to see that Hitler invested a lot of time hunting down 'leftists' and Marxists - and that he inprisioned and killed literally hundreds of thousands of them.

I think its more than safe to say that Hitler was no fan of Karl Marx.

GJ

zerodamage

Interesting sites there Raid. Very interesting extreme leftist websites to read.
Since we are at it posting extremist websites, how about you read this, one where facts are used to back up what is said.
Here

It is a long read, try to read it all.

If you can't read it all for some reason, maybe read this. Sort of the abridged version.
Here

And another. I am starting to wonder how these factual sites get ignored while other leftist sites are posted immediately. http://constitutionalistnc.tripod.com/hitler-leftist/

Raid: I will not respond to your attack.

bluelight

They will be ignored because they are bullshit and you claims are insults to the socialist and socialdemocrats, communists and union leaders that were THE FIRST TO BE SENT TO CONCENTRATIONCAMPS TO BE TORTURED AND MURDERED ALREADY IN 1933.

The first concentration camps built in Germany harboured left wing people.

Got it?

Well now deny it.

Why did they bring socialist s to the concentartion camps at that time?

Because they were initially a threat to the Nazis.Because they resisted the Nazis.

Why do you think that the Nazis claimed that the man the arrested for setting fire to the German parliament (which was done by the Nazis themselves to create chaos) was a communist socialist jew?

Because they themselves were socialists?



The Nazis were NATIONAL.....socialists which one and only resemblance with Socialism is the spelling of the word socialist.


Get your facts straight.

Bluelight

bluelight

A search on concentration camps..socialists...gives the link below as first result in Goggle.

The site in question is from the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, Washington, D.C.

Here


I suggest you read it and that you do some more searces on the issue and then explain to me...why your "socialist" Adolf Hitler....was sending socialists to the first concentration camps built......


No i changed my mind...spare me the explaination.

If you wannna dig yourself out of accustations of being extreme right...then i suggest you grip for something else than this.

Its not working.

Bluelight

raid517

Pah... and I'm supposed to take that seriously? Like I said when it comes to extremists both from the left and right - many of their methodologies are identical. You and your questionable doctor friend (a doctor of what BTW? Foot surgery by the sound of it) are simply mistaking similar methodologies with similar ideologies.

In many senses it it better to call Nazism an ideology all of it's own. It was as your article pointed out Hitler's 'third way' a path between socialism and Nationalism (Nationalism being the traditional realm of the right) hence the term National socialism. This did not however infer a middle or 'moderate' approach. Nazism was Hitler's attempt to appeal to all segments of society - both the ordinary people and the industrialist - or put another way to anyone that could put him in power. To the poor he said 'I will give you bread' (it might not sound like much - but in the 1930's in Germany this sounded like a promise of paradise) and to the rich he said I will make you richer - and more than this I will make you powerful. For a time - from about 1933 onwards it seemed too that he had delivered on these promises - as he brought jobs and prosperity to the poor and turned around German industry from the brink of disaster. Hitler above anything was a populist - he would make promises to everyone - say more or less anything if it helped him achieve his stated objectives - which were defeat of the Bolsheviks and to rid Europe of the Jews - two objectives he saw as being intrinsically linked. And since he believed that the left and in particular the communist party was dominated and inspired by Jews, clearly it is an anathema and a perversion of common logic to say that somehow he was a friend to socialism - because this would also by implication make him a friend of the Jews.

How you could have warm feelings towards the Jews and then go out and murder 6 million of them is something I will leave you to explain.

I'm sure though in the perverse world you inhabit that you will probably find a way.

BTW the links I posted were from a popular historical search engine - not from a 'leftist political site.' My Daughter uses it for her college course - as do many of her friends - so its a bit like calling Encarta a 'leftist' manifesto. Indeed if you looked at Encarta - or any possible more substantive encyclopedia - like the Encyclopedia Britannica - I have no doubt that you would find the same information printed there.

You can't simply reinvent history because you find it inconvenient. There are many sites out there that seek to promote revisionist versions of history - such as those that claim the Holocaust never happed - or that the moon landings were faked. Unfortunately none of them are regarded as carrying any real validity in the wider academic community. This is simply another example of a revisionist history - perpetrated by members of the far right - who for some reason find their association in the minds of many people with Hitler to be an inconvenient embarrassment.

I don't know anyway why it is relevant. As has been pointed out in your own view you almost certainly are further to the right of Hitler. And since that is something we can both fully agree on, I don't really see any need for further discussion.

GJ

zerodamage

If I remember right, I got banned for saying what you two lefties said was bullshit. As for your rhetoric Raid and continued attacks and indirect references about me, I will wait and see if anything gets done about it. I will not lower myself to your level. I will let your comments and actions speak for themselves. What I find really amazing is Bluelight's link to this memorial site where they list all of these leftist groups being thrown into concentration camps and not one mention of jews. It is amazing what people will put on the internet and pass off as legitimate sources now days.

If you took the time to read my links, which you obviously didn't, that is addressed. Hitler was allied, let me repeat that for you, ALLIED with Stalin in the beginning. Anyone, and I mean ANYONE who positioned themselves against him regardless of who they are, even those of his OWN party were treated just as bad. How is this so hard to understand? Every one of Hitlers policies from Animal rights, Environmentalism, to his economic policies are leftist/socialist in nature. How the hell can you continue to claim Hitler was on the right?

Once again, before you talk about Nationalism, I think you need to read my link again. This is also addressed.

I ask that a moderator please address these attacks against me.

LMAO LMAO You must be kidding me? Now Encarta has meaning. Only when a leftist references it though right? LMAO
My links on the first page including Encarta are invalid because I posted it I guess. LMAO

Anyway Raid, thanks for the laugh. Your never ending ranting and insults are becoming more and more amusing to me. It shows desperation to discredit me via false accusations (Nothing new from you).

LMAO. Dispite the facts he still uses it and still thinks it is an insult.

zerodamage

Time for me to end my discussions on this thread. I will let those out there who never really thought about whether Hitler was a leftist or on the Right to read and decide for themselves. His policies, his speach where he says he is a socialist, I will let you decide. Everyone knows that Raid and Bluelight will go to their graves defending a leftist lie. Their only Defense is the Nationalist part of Nationalist Socialism. Read my link and you will read and see that explained.

raid517

No I posted the info regarding encarta because I seem to recall it was one source your respected.

However I'm sure if you opened any decent history book on WWII you would find exactly the same information posted there too.

I don't think it's an insult to say that someone expressing a view that Hitler was a socialist is a preverse point of view. It seems self evident this this is the case. You will not be able to go to any college or University in this world and find any serious accademic expressing the views you have promoted.

Beyond some questionable links to someone of an unknown reputation - that's all you have to support your opinion.

I however prefer somewhat more substantive sources.

I'm sorry if you think I'm attacking you, what I'm doing is attacking your views - views that clearly can't be supported.

If you wish to cause a fuss over that, then that's entirely up to you.

GJ

raid517

Anyway did you read Bluelight's link . This is official Jewish - and also widely accepted world history. If you want to change that, then you have an awful lot of people to go through first.

Indeed your only way round this is to deny that the Holocaust ever happened.

It would almost be interesting to hear your views on this - even if only for final confirmation of the kind of person you appear to be.

Best regards,

GJ

JoyStick

Humm... Why does everyone assume that National Socialism is the same as socialism?

It's like saying that russia, in the 40's, was in a state of communism.

They weren't even in a state of socialism in the 40's.

Come on, people. This isn't hard.


National Socialism != Socialism.


BTW, bluelight - I don't like you, but I'm agreeing with you.


But, for the fun of it all.. I think I'll defend the holocaust hoax theory.


Can't wait to hear what blue has to say about this.. He's one smart SOB.


""... communism abolishes eternal truths, it abolishes all religion, and all morality," Karl Marx in the Communist Manifesto

"... communism has failed so disastrously everywhere it has been imposed on White people, on Europeans. It may work with Asians or with Africans; it may work with mestizos; but it doesn't work with White people. One reason, of course, is that in Europe it was originally promoted and implemented by Jews for the purpose of exploiting the people it purported to be helping. The Jews used communism to bleed one nation after another dry... Communism would have failed even under Aryan leadership because it was based on a false view of human nature -- at least, on a false view of our nature: which is to say, it was based on egalitarianism -- the notion that we are all basically the same -- and on the idea that we all should work only for the common good, like bees in a hive, and not for ourselves." "... Egalitarianism is the most poisonously false and destructive myth ever foisted on our people. Though it is contrary to even the most cursory observation of the real world, egalitarianism has its destructive power in its appeal to the inferior, to the envious, and to the resentful. It says to the loser, to the sluggard, to the dull, the clumsy, and the drab: "You are just as deserving as the winner; you are just as strong and agile, just as bright and creative, just as imaginative and energetic, just as brave and skillful, just as beautiful and admirable in every way. The only reason you are a loser and he is a winner is that you have been cheated, and he has been given an unfair advantage." Capitalism and Equality by Dr. William Pierce: Free Speech - February 2000 - Volume VI, Number 2"




http://www.reportersnotebook.com/vid...resolution.wmv

Everyone must watch that...

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/index.htm

Propagand from '33-'45

http://www.corax.org/revisionism/ima...rucifixion.gif

1919, and the jews are saying 6 million are dying...

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/trr/

Mechanics of Gassing - Elite breakdown.

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v01/v01p-23_Faurisson.html

http://www.ihr.org/journal/jhrarticles.shtml

More mechanics of gassing.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/030808.html

Anne Frank's diary.

http://www.ns88.com/ns88/nr/msc04.html

Cole again.

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v01/v01p131_Harwood.html

http://www.ihr.org/main/search.shtml

Jewish Soap info.


Have fun with those.



Oh, and for the one's saying they're extreme left, and extreme right...


http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/poli...ass/index.html

"Take the Test" and tell us your results.

raid517

Erm... Pardon?

Sigh... well I was kind of hoping this debate was dead - but yes I have to agree there has never been a truly communist country. All Russia was was a totalitarian regime - which bore little resemblance to what Marx originally proposed.

Not that I'm saying Max's ideas were valid. Even communism in it's purest form is an unworkable ideal. For it to work would require cooperation and selflessness on behalf of everyone - and I think it's clear from even just looking at this forum that clearly that's an utterly unworkable ideal.

GJ

Falstaff

I agree, communism is dead, socialism is more relevant to meeting the needs of many emerging countries, not democracy, although the ideas has merits, IRAQ would benefit from socialism...or so it seems.

__________________

JoyStick

Lol... I think Iraq would do just fine without Israel bothering them...



Exclusive from New Scientist Print Edition. Subscribe and get 4 free issues.

Israel has drawn up a secret plan for a giant desalination plant to supply drinking water to the Palestinian territory on the West Bank. It hopes the project will diminish pressure for it to grant any future Palestinian state greater access to the region's scarce supplies of fresh water.

Under an agreement signed a decade ago as part of the Oslo accord, four-fifths of the West Bank's water is allocated to Israel, though the aquifers that supply it are largely replenished by water falling onto Palestinian territory.

The new plans call for seawater to be desalinated at Caesaria on the Mediterranean coast, and then pumped into the West Bank, where a network of pipes will deliver it to large towns and many of the 250 villages that currently rely on local springs and small wells for their water.


Access to fresh water
Israel, which wants the US to fund the project, would guarantee safe passage of the water across its territory in return for an agreement that Israel can continue to take the lion's share of the waters of the West Bank. These mainly comprise underground reserves such as the western aquifer, the region's largest, cleanest and most reliable water source.

For Israelis, agreement on the future joint management of this aquifer is a prerequisite for granting Palestine statehood.

Global funding


The first public hint of the plan emerged earlier in May in Washington DC. Uri Shamir, director of water research at the Technion, the Israel Institute of Technology in Haifa, told the House of Representatives Committee on International Relations that the desalination project was "the only viable long-term solution" for supplying drinking water to the West Bank.

Shamir told New Scientist this week that the project could be complete in five to seven years. "The plant will be funded by the world for the Palestinians. Israel will not be willing to carry this burden, and the Palestinians are not able to."

But other leading hydrologists contacted by New Scientist point out that desalinating seawater and pumping it to the West Bank, parts of which lie 1000 metres above sea level, would cost around $1 per cubic metre.

"The question is whether an average Palestinian family can afford it," says Arie Issar, a water expert at Ben-Gurion University of the Negev in Sede Boker, Israel, who helped green the Israeli desert a generation ago by finding new water sources in the region. "It would be foolish to desalinate water on the coast and push it up the mountains when there are underground water resources up there, which cost only a third as much."

Tony Allan of King's College London, a leading authority on Middle East water, agrees: "Pumping desalinated water to the West Bank is not the best technical or economic option."

But the project is being supported by Alvin Newman, head of water resources at the Tel Aviv office of USAID, the US international development agency, which would fund the desalination project. "Ultimately it's the only solution," he said in an interview with New Scientist.

Unusual cooperation


Water supply is one of the few areas where cooperation between Israel and Palestine has survived the current intifada. Every day on the West Bank, Palestinian engineers help repair and maintain Israeli water pipes, and vice versa.

But Palestinian water negotiators are deeply uneasy about the plans being drawn up on their behalf, especially if they involve abandoning claims to the water beneath their feet. "We cannot do that. We don't have the money or the expertise for desalination," Ihab Barghothi, head of water projects for the Palestinian Water Authority, told New Scientist.

Palestinians badly need more water. Under the Oslo agreement they have access to 57 cubic metres of water per person per year from all sources. Israel gets 246 cubic metres per head per year. And in the nearly 40 years that Israel has controlled the West Bank, Palestinians have been largely forbidden from drilling new wells or rehabilitating old ones.

The region's sources of water are the West Bank aquifers; the river Jordan, which rises in the Golan Heights and flows into the Sea of Galilee, where it is largely tapped by Israel; and the coastal aquifer, an increasingly polluted reserve of underground water that extends south to the Palestinian territory of the Gaza Strip.


Sewage effluent


Over the years, Israel has developed a good reputation for using water efficiently, and in the 1980s it began recycling sewage effluent for irrigation. In 2004, Israel signed a deal to buy water shipped by tanker from Turkey.

Meanwhile, Palestinians in the Gaza Strip depend almost exclusively on small wells tapping the coastal aquifer. As the water table falls, the aquifer is becoming increasingly polluted by salt water from the sea. UN scientists say Gaza will have no drinkable water within 15 years.

Despite earlier efforts to develop desalination, the Israel government only decided to invest heavily in the technology in the past four years. Some, including Israeli liberals and Palestinian optimists such as Barghothi, believed that once Israel began desalinating seawater for its own use it would be prepared to relax its grip on the West Bank aquifers.

But now it appears that Israeli water planners see desalination as a means of retaining control of those aquifers.

The desalination plant to supply the West Bank would parallel a similar US-funded reverse osmosis plant to fill taps on the hard-pressed Gaza Strip. The scheme has already been approved and funded, but is currently on hold because of continuing conflict in Gaza. Taken together, the two schemes would leave an independent Palestine more dependent on desalination than almost any other nation in the world.



Israel plans to give Palestine freedom by taking their water... Hah, right.

raid517

That questionnaire like all similar questionnaires is fundamentally flawed - specifically because it forces people to adopt positions that are not always wholly sustainable. These questionnaires tend more often than not to represent the views of the author - rather than attempt to tell us anything fundamentally useful about the subjects they purport to examine.

For example the statement that:

is implicit in it's suggestion that only one option is possible - and that is that big business is always wholly good - or it is wholly evil. In reality however it is clear that there is no society in this world that can survive without a healthy economy - and while it is important in a free society that private industry should be allowed to prosper, it should not be allowed to do so in a wholly unregulated manner. Later in the questionnaire it asks if you believe that the freer the economy is the freer society is - but this is also a view that ultimately cannot be sustained - because in an wholly unregulated society you would have circumstances where workers were paid virtually nothing for their efforts, where they were regularly exposed to hazardous chemicals without protection - and were routinely exposed to other dangerous working practices - where children could be enslaved and made to work for a pittance, where workers could be hired and fired on the whim of their employer without any recourse to law or legal representation, where business people could indulge in fraud and corruption - only for their actions to go unpunished. That is what a 'truly free market' means. However it is true also that businesses should not be weighed down by so much regulation that it makes it impossible for them to function - as this will serve only to harm the economy too. It isn't an 'either, or' scenario - its an 'and, and' situation, we need a free market yes - but in order to not become enslaved by the free market, we also need regulation.

Most of the statements this guy makes in his questionnaire could be regarded this way - there is no real room for compromise in any of the questions he asks.

Anyway are you really voicing your support for Holocaust denial? Because if you are, it's not something I have much time for. My Grandma's first husband was a Polish dissident - and he died in the gas chambers - so for me its something very real. (My Dad was born to her second husband though - so I'm not really related).

I haven't had time to read your links - but if you insist I should then I might get round to it.

GJ

raid517

Erm... you appear to be getting Palistine and Iraq confused. What has this got to do with Iraq?

GJ

JoyStick

Yeah, I thought so too, Raid, about those questions..

But, the test is pretty accurate.

As far as the links go. You can read em, or not. Some are interesting, though. I especially like the Mechanics of Gassing.

I'm not voicing my views for holocaust denial, just posting some info that kinda makes you wonder...

@Guy who said I confused things - Nah, I didn't confuse anything. Palestenians, and Iraqis, are held in the same light as eachother by Israel, so there's no difference between the two. (in the way I was referring to each, that is.)

raid517

Well since you asked I scored middle of the road centre left libertarian - which is a long way short of the exteme left that some folks here have accused me of being. I wonder where ZD came? Lol... I bet he's not even on the radar on that test....

Sorry ZD, just poking a little fun at you.

GJ

JoyStick

I was 4 to the left, and 2 up.

I don't feel like a lefty =)

bluelight

You dont like me? Well maybe i prefer that you dont.





The main qoute..you post..........



"... communism has failed so disastrously everywhere it has been imposed on White people, on Europeans. It may work with Asians or with Africans; it may work with mestizos; but it doesn't work with White people. One reason, of course, is that in Europe it was originally promoted and implemented by Jews for the purpose of exploiting the people it purported to be helping. The Jews used communism to bleed one nation after another dry... Communism would have failed even under Aryan leadership because it was based on a false view of human nature -- at least, on a false view of our nature: which is to say, it was based on egalitarianism -- the notion that we are all basically the same -- and on the idea that we all should work only for the common good, like bees in a hive, and not for ourselves." "... Egalitarianism is the most poisonously false and destructive myth ever foisted on our people. Though it is contrary to even the most cursory observation of the real world, egalitarianism has its destructive power in its appeal to the inferior, to the envious, and to the resentful. It says to the loser, to the sluggard, to the dull, the clumsy, and the drab: "You are just as deserving as the winner; you are just as strong and agile, just as bright and creative, just as imaginative and energetic, just as brave and skillful, just as beautiful and admirable in every way. The only reason you are a loser and he is a winner is that you have been cheated, and he has been given an unfair advantage." Capitalism and Equality by Dr. William Pierce: Free Speech - February 2000 - Volume VI, Number 2"








Well the qoute above is obviously antisemitic and racist so there is no point in discussing it further.





Bluelight

bluelight

And..."The mechanics of gassing"....


Faurisson who wrote it is an idiot and has been trialed and punished for his writings.





Bluelight

raid517

Chill out Blue... I think the guy is more on your side than you think... The quote he used was from one of Hitler's speeches I believe.

I think liking and disliking people here is irrelevant. It's hard to know from a few of the scribblings here what people are really like in real life.

GJ

bluelight

Well....it was he who felt the need to tell the world that he didnt like me in his first post adressed to me.

The qoute he posted is written by a person who is an obvioius racist.The way he goes on (in the qoute)about Jews and ...all other races except whites suitable for communism..is of course racial slur and nothing else.

And....Faurisson is a Nazi.

So...He asked for my opinion and got it.



Bluelight

raid517

You don't get it do you? He posted one of HITLER'S SPEECHES. One that clearly shows Hitler launching into a diatribe against socialism and the Jews - associating it as an ideology of the lower races. (One that in his view ultimately needed eliminating). He was offering support of what you said. Read it again.

As I said, this isn't a popularity contest. You shouldn't be so sensitive to other people's opinions of you.

Personally I don't give a damn what people think.

GJ

bluelight

The qoute comes from this site.It is not written by Hitler it is by someone named Pierce

Copynthe speech into Goggle and this is one and only result you get.

National alliance


What the National alliance is...i leave up to you to judge yourself.

I have already.

The section ...

What is the Natinal alliance describes it well enough.


THis is just a small part of it.

"An Aryan Society
We must have new societies throughout the White world which are based on Aryan values and are compatible with the Aryan nature. We do not need to homogenize the White world: there will be room for Germanic societies, Celtic societies, Slavic societies, Baltic societies, and so on, each with its own roots, traditions, and language. What we must have, however, is a thorough rooting out of Semitic and other non-Aryan values and customs everywhere. We must once again provide the sort of social and spiritual environment in which our own nature can express itself in music, in art and architecture, in literature, in philosophy and scholarship, in the mass media, and in the life-styles of the people.



Bluelight

bluelight

Well i didnt launch any contest. And....i dont see any support for what i say except for that he agress to what i say about what Nazis think of Socialism.

He does not say why he agrees to this and what his own standpoint is.

Instead he posts links to stuff than among other things denies the holocaust and asks what i think about that.

Well...i wanna know what he thinks.



Bluelight

bluelight

ONe of the links from the site above goes directly to those that treasure the heritage

So of course...i want to know what he is talking about.

Bluelight

raid517

Mmm... Well the reason I thought it was written by Hitler is because it is so similar to many of the things I know Hitler said. I have read/heard most of his speeches (although they can tend to ramble a bit) - and this is pretty much the 'meat and potatos' of his entire philosophy.

Well TBH - I don't know what the guy is on about then.

We get some pretty weird and whacked out views here from the full spectrum of human opinion...

But the way I read it, it was a demonstration of how crazy some of the stuff these people say really is.

That's as much credibility as I gave it.

GJ