zerodamage

This link is interesting.... Here

But this next one is even more interesting. The nonsense that Hitler was on the Right has been a huge lie from the left for a many years, regardless of the knowledge that he was a socialist. I found the information contained within this link here: Here

Here is a quote from Hitler:
Now who preaches day in and day out that Capitalism is evil, blah blah? Well the leftists of course, including the prominent ones on this forum. So before you decide to call someone like myself a Nazi ever again, you may wish to examine your core beliefs and compare them to Hitler's.

bluelight

Hitler said a lot of nonsense.

Hitlers "ideology" isnt even politics.Nazism is a sludge consisting of fear,ignorance and total lack of brains.

The reason it came to rule were the same mechanisms that make you yell that torture should be allowed.

Rightwing?Well...the first ones to accept his ideology was the German capitalists.

They did this in 1930 or 31 in a gathering where they decided to support the Nazi party.

I suppose they did that because it would serve them better than supporting a democratic evolution led by socialdemocrats who at the time were stronger than the Nazis.

Throughout the whole period the Nazi party and the capitalists of Germany maintained their close alliance.

Some of the industrial leaders were cherged for this cooperation after the war.


Claiming that Nazism or Fascism has nothing to do with rightwing politics is ignorant and an insult to all people that has been murdered or tortured under such governments ranging from Mussolinis Italy to Pinochets Fascists in Chile.


Both Nazism and Fascism takes its standpoint in an extreme nationalism whicj allows capitalism to explore people to its outer limits.

...Now one might say that Communism does the same....correct...BUT IT DOES SO FROM A TOTALLY DIFFERENT ANGLE....

So...what you claim is literally WRONG even if the consequenses of the both system are the same.


Thats the way it is.....Go far enough ....on whichever side....and you end up in sludge.

Also...if you go far enough to the right

Bluelight

zerodamage

Spining around and around and around. Sorry but the facts speak for themselves and always have. The Nazi ideology is a form of socialism. Nothing to do with the Right which has been claimed by those of you on the left for years.

tastyweat

he was a "selective" socialist

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bluelight

Which facts?

Can you formulate them yourself without refering me to an extremist rightwing site.

I do not accept your sources as reasonable ones.

On the contrary i consider them extremsist rightwing propaganda.

So i suggest you formulate something that contradicts my statements about the German capitalists role during the Nazi period in Germany....yourself....based on YOUR knowledge of history and politics.


Bluelight

bluelight

No he was a Nazi.Nothing else.

Like all extreme politicians he bred on hate.

Very similar to what current extremne rightwing and leftwing movements does.

Now....a socialist...bases his wiew on Marx writings.

Nothing else.

That is the founding BASE of socialism.

Marx....was..first of all..a JEW...now..we all know how Hitler felt about jews do we? So it is harly likely that he is refering to ANYTHING that stems from the mind of Marx.

Right?


Second...Marx and...socialism is ultimatley and in theory in favour of the people ruling.

Nazism has NONE of those ideas.

It is BASED on that a superior class should lead.

Nazism is more similar to ancient Rome than it is to Socialism and...it is closer to rightwing ideals than anything else.



Bluelight

malkor

Why not use a more viable example zero, like Lenin and Stalin, who created an even more brutal state than Hitler, and killed far more of their own citizens?

What is your point though? Because Stalin and Lenin ( two of the biggest monsters the world has seen) were leftist, socilaist, communist, that this somehow makes all left leaning people wrong and the right, umm, for lack of a better word, right?

Why continue futile arguments like this? Why continue to bicker about left and right instead of searching for some common ground?

zerodamage

OH, so I see how it is. Hitler himself can say "I am a socialist" and it means nothing? Selective socialism. Selective hearing.

tastyweat

A selective socialist is another name for someone on the right wing!!!

a selective communist = capitalist

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zerodamage

Because I here, on this forum have been called more Right than Hitler and Darth Vader among other false accusations by the leftists here. Well the fact is that Hitler was a socialist, a leftist. And as the point you made, most of the atrocisities made in recent human history have been made by leftists whether they be socialists or communists. You can just say I am sick of the spinning with Hitler being called a Right winger when the absolute oposite is the truth.

Definitions of Nazism:
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionar...nary&va=Nazism
http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/featur...fid=1861632596
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=nazism
http://poets.notredame.ac.jp/cgi-bin...wn&word=nazism
http://www.britannica.com/ebc/articl...ery=nazism&ct=

Nothing about Conservatism. Just mentions of Socialism. Short definition: Nationalist Socialism.
Your days of claiming Hitler was on the right are over.

nazism

n : a form of socialism featuring racism and expansionism [syn: Nazism, Naziism, national socialism]

tastyweat

That's what I was trying to say - lol - "selective" socialism!

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malkor

Well by your account you ARE more right than Hitler. I still don't understand your point. What is it you are trying to prove and what purpose does it serve? Whether we label Hitler as left or right what value does this have? What does this give us besides more to bicker about. Semantics. Name calling. Hurt feelings. It's all quite sophomoric.

This is a discussion forum conducted in the written form, and what one writes can be scrutinized quite closely and interpreted different ways. I think you feel you have been slighted. I don't know. I don't know you personally. But try to get over this feeling of being hard done to, and keep the finger from pointing and name calling. I don't accuse you solely of being guilty of this, but these discussions tend to become quite childish. The more one points fingers and name calls, the more likely they will receive the same.

It's anever-ending circle. just let it go man, and deal with the bigger issues.

JavaFox

Does this debate really matter?

I'm conservative and have criticized liberals and liberal thinking on many levels and many issues on numerous occasions. But who cares if Hitler was a socialist or not? What bearing does that have on anything any liberal has to say today? You honestly think there is some sort of connection between, say, the liberal writings of Michael Moore and the writings of Hitler? Give me a break.

"The Left" wasn't any more responsible for Hitler's Holocaust than "The Right" was for the Christian Crusades. Even if Hitler was a leftist, that doesn't mean a damn thing for the millions of decent leftists in the world. Stalin for sure was a socialist to the extreme, but does that mean that the gentle socialism of Europe will lead to the bloodshed and sorrow of Stalin's regime? Of course not.

If you want to attack liberalism, attack its ideas with facts, logic, and passion. Don't attack it with cheap shots and comparisons to Hitler.

zerodamage

There is no debate here. This thread is a fact setter. This thread is to set things straight. Hitler was not on the right. When someone said I was more right than Hitler, it was meant that Hitler was very right and I was even more so. According to the facts, everyone on this site is more right than Hitler. The fact I made clear here is that he was a leftist. So the "You are more right than Hitler" accusations can stop.

I find it amusing that I am being criticized for clearing up an obvious falsehood. Hitler has been used as comparison to Conservatives for a long time and I found it was time to set the record straight about Hitler and Nazism.

bluelight

NO exactly.It means nothing since it isnt true.

One of the reasons he said that was that Socialism at the time was very strong and at a point there was a big chance of it taking over evcerything.

People in Germany was attracted to Socialism as a result of the conditions in the country after WW1 and also due to the influence from Moscow who had been having their revolution a mere twen years before Hitler began to have influence ...so...it was very much in the interest of Hitler to portray himself as a socialist to appeal to people that wanted capitalism out.

He also yelled a lot about bringing down the influence of the capitalists..but in reality he limited this to getting rid of the Jewish people that had this position and then handed their industries over to aryan capitalists....who throughout the war...supported him.

Bluelight

bluelight

Yeah it is amusing since what you say is an obvious lie.Hitler was not a socialist.


If you think i am gonna take YOUR word in this matter for a fact instead of what i have read and heard through 40 years then im sorry ...but its not gonna happen.





Bluelight

zerodamage

Blue, please stop speculating. None of that is true and you know it. lol

zerodamage

As I said, there is no debate here. Hitler said himself he was a socialist. His party was socialist. No Blue, do not take my word for it. Take the facts and accept them... if you can.

bluelight

No......since your mind is closed for logic i will not further reply to your posts.Its pointless.

Bluelight

zerodamage

Sure thing, attack me Bluelight. The problem and this is a never ending problem with you, you ignore the facts. Hitler could rise from the depths of hell, go on TV, throw up his hand and say, I AM A SOCIALIST, and you would still not believe it. The facts are on the table. It is up to you to accept them or not.

bluelight

As i said...Im through talking to you.

That is hardly an attack.It is just a measure of where my limits are for wasting time tapping the keyboard in front of me.

I am also 100 percent sure that your intention with this is to get me out of balance and insult you...which is not gonna happen. OK?

So..Bye Bye...

Turn the world upside down ..in and out..distort reality as you wish.

Im not gonna try to stop you.

Bluelight

tastyweat

why not just leave it now? There's no point getting riled up over this peti argument

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bluelight

I just did.

Bluey

Falstaff

Gentleman please, where do you all think Hitler got many of his ideas about anti semitism and the final solution...it is ironic, but I actually have in my possesion some tabloids that Henry Ford printed regarding his own political agenda, and it features Anti Semitism squarely in the middle, although it does not mention genocide. And lets face it, antisemitism has been around along time....long before we all were cognizant of a world wide movement against Zionism and the existence of a seperate and independent nation of Israel.

some reading about Henry Ford and Nazi Germany

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tastyweat

yeah... if you look at the times mate - my reply was posted at the same time as yours.... I was just finishing typing when you replied

and tbh... you do get at him... but to be fair - he helps fuel it - so it works as a trade off... it's interesting to see ZD vs Bluey threads

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Falstaff

hey tasty, nice to see ya..where is everybody...lol

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zerodamage

This isn't really a ZD vs Bluey thread. This is undisputable facts vs Bluey's Ideology thread.

tastyweat

lol Lee!!! You're fueling him again - I don't think he will reply to this one though - why don't you move it over to the flame warzone mate? I'm not personally bothered by it - it brings a smile to my face - it's just others may be.

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zerodamage

I am not flaming. Just stating the facts and correcting a misconseption. That is all. Now I just hope I do not have to refer to this thread when someone makes a reference to Hitler and the Right as a comparison.

raid517

Well as has been pointed out Hitler was put in power and funded by prominent German Capitalists and the banks because they thought they could control him. The German economic recovery from 1930 onwards was founded almost exclusively on capitalistic (though somewhat isolationist) grounds. Traditionally he has been seen as the diametric opposite to Stalin - Stalin on the extreme left and Hitler on the extreme right. The problem with extremists is that it is often very difficult to tell between them. Those on the right employ the same methods as those on the left, they both have concentration camps, they both have show trials, they both arrest their political opponents and imprison them without charge - so really making that distinction is not always as easy as it seems. However just because their methods may be similar it does not always follow that their ideologies may be similar also. Hitler instigated numerous purges against what he saw as 'leftists' and rounded up hundreds of thousands of members of the German communist party and had them summarily executed. Indeed a famous part of Hitler's history is when he participated in the overthrow of a communist coupe in 1920 - when he worked as a spy for the Prussian General Walther Von Lüttwitz. (Who as I'm sure you know, was commander in chief of the German free forces from when WWI ended until their replacement with Hitlers SA - and later the SS in 1921).

Anyway for more history on Hitler you can follow this link. You might also find this one useful too.

From this (and from many other historical documents) it is clear to see that Hitler was rabidly anti socialist and anti communist - even if ultimately many of the methods he used to deal with his enemies were the same as those on the extreme left.

The only difference here is that you are comparing one form of extremism with another.

GJ

PS

Anyway, like most others have said, what is the point of this thread? Is ZD feeling a little sensitive about something? Clearly if he is, this is not an appropriate way or place to vent his demons. This thread is about politics - not about dealing with individual members personal insecurities. It would be nice if we could keep it that way.