Falstaff

Bill Cosby is fed up with African American parents and youth

Bill Cosby, comedian and outspoken critic of racial stereotypes in the African American community, and the growing perpetuation of racial motivated language in the media, is speaking out, not against the media, but against parents of African American youth. The regression and subsequent dilution of the popular movement to free the media of racial stereotypes has taken an 180 degree turn for the worse in Cosby's opinion. Young men and women are taught about the struggle for freedom for people of color for the past 200 plus years in our country's history, and the parallel struggle for equality among women of all races, however if you listen to the popular music, embrace the popular hip hop and black culture you are exposed to trends in ebonically enhanced language that can only be described as filthy, racial and abusive towards women, non African Americans and the common use of racially charged language, not by non african americans but by the african american artists themselves. The artifiical culture built by the popular media and perpetuated by the media is unrelenting in popularizing promescuiity, racial charged language, and lifestyles that benefit the artist rather than the consumer...and kids are buying it. Bill Cosby joins a growing list of successful African American men and women who are tiredof the hype. Parents of children should take responsibility for their children's emotional and intellectual growth, and strive to improve themselves economically and spritually so that generations of young men and women can improve their society, and turn away from lifestyles and lifescripts written and built on the destructive power of racially motivated and driven rhetoric by African Americans themselves. I am a caucasion of Norwegian descent, raised in a christian home and taught racial tolerance in the 70s. Though never consumed with white guilt, I could see and hear the growing trend towards acceptance by society of racially motivated language in movies, popular music and even on televsion. Rather than diminish the power of the racially charged language by its common use, it has actually reinforced the stereotypes that people like Bill Cosby fought openly against in my youth. The great victories for civil rights by people of color in America has become minimzed and forgotten by the generations of American youth who are exposed to this filth. The hedonistic lifestyles and guiltless acts of violence dramatized in our media reinforces the decay of our own moral fabric. America will implode morally if some members of our community hesitate to stand up.
I was raised in a different time, and I dont believe the hype and I dont condon the digusting way the media portray racial stereotypes, no white guilt here. Regardless of color, racial slurs shouldnt be tolerated in our media or in our schools or homes. Was the struggle for inequality just an event? Bill Cosby doesnt thinks so, and neither do the generation that fought for it. Popular media should be held accountable for the filth and the racial driven product they churn out. Parents need to get involved with the education of their children and show that the popular media is still playing off the old fears, ignorance and racial hatred that has existed in for two hundred or more years in the US, they just packaged it and they are selling it to cosumers.

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Nacht

Don't they realize that this is probably some of the crap people hate them for? People hated them, because they viewed them as animals...and guess what they're acting like? I'm not saying that white people don't do the same...but you can't be so hypocritical as to continue to fight for all kinds of stuff (MLK holidays, the rebel flag, black history month, affirmative action [which I strongly disagree with btw]) with this going on behind you....they cancel each other out, and make people think that they just want to be better than everybody else.

Falstaff

I think it is the media that has the guilt complex, that is why they look the other way when it comes to making a dollar, even for racism that still previals regardless of color

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TyrionX

Thank God Bill Cosby at least he sees how racist African Americans in the media seem to be getting(not to say that all African Americans in the media are racists, but that it's getting absurd how freely they can discriminate against women and non-african americans). My respect for Cosby is growing.

OldBuzzard

The sad fact is that the 'Black Community' is in such bad shape that they may never recover. There are so many things that have been ingrained into the culture that it will take decades to reverse. 'Racisim' has been raised to a level approaching a RELIGION, which is one reason you see so many 'Reverends" as 'Black Leaders'. There is the 'Prophet" (MLK), 'Satan' ( the whites), the 'Saviour" (White Liberals). It's an 'artical of faith' in the black community that ALL whites are racists, and facts do not enter into the equasion. If a black is fired from a job, it's because of racisim (even if his/her replacement is ANOTHER black). If a white policeman shoots a black (even if the black is shooting at him first), it's because the cop is a racisist and was looking for a black to shoot, just for the fun of it.

Blacks in this country have been given the idea that equality = success, and that it is something that is given to you. Unfortunatly, success in life comes from education and hard work. It isn't someting that 'just happens'. The LIBERALS/DEMOCRATS have perpetuated this myth for something in the neighborhood of 40 years, and somehow, the black community has swallowed it hook, line, and sinker. I guess that a part of it can be traced to the Liberal domination of the educational system, where the 'dumbing down of America' has been occurinfg for roughly the same length of time.

If you would take the time to do the research, you would find that back in the 'Jim Crow' days, blacks had a LOWER crime rate than whites, they had a LOWER percentage of un-wed mothers than whites, and an EQUAL of BETTER literacy rate than whites, and a lower divorce rate than whites. Their 'down fall' came from the welfare state that was started after 1964, when it became unnecessary to work, and when it was better to be single with lots of children because you got more $$ from the government. While the Liberals motives may have been commendable, their methods were not, and the black community has been on a downward spiral ever since. I don't advocate a return to those days, but a return to good solid family values would sure go a long way towards helping the problem.

I wish that there was a simple solution, but there isn't. Bill Cosby's stance is a step in the right direction, but I fear that his message is going to be ignored by the majority of the poor black community.

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Nacht

I agree with alot of that buzzard, but i dont know about the first paragraph....the religion thing I think takes it a little bit too far...to say that they teach that all whites are racists etc etc....but I have noticed the crap with the policeman, or murders...if its a white killing a black: hate crime. nothing is ever said in the opposite.

what about that black woman that let the white guy die on the hood of her car? she left him there what, like 3 days before he died?

Kemal

I don't believe Bill Cosby has ever made an incorrect statement his entire life. One of my hero's. Not only is he one of the funniest men on the planet, he is also incredibly intelligent and free-thinking. More power to him.

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Falstaff

and he tells it like it is, he doesnt suffer from modesty, but he is well spoken and intelligent. I think even Jesse Jackson might learn something. Black racism is on the rise in the media now...

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PoopyTheJ

Bill Cosby telling it like it is, good on ya Bill.

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raid517

Well it's funny to see how you all missed the point. What Cosby was saying was that White society and white run corporations in particular were responsible for allowing the separation and segregation of blacks through promoting a false view of black culture in the media, where criminals have been raised to the level of heroes. He is effectively saying that it is a new form of racism, because it allows the media to separate black culture from white culture by allowing a small section of black society to promote their negative perspective on what being black really means.

The question he is asking is why have what are essentially a bunch of gang bangers been granted such prominence in black American popular culture? Who does this benefit most? And what message does it send to black youth - beyond that if you want to get along in American society, the only way you can do this is through criminality and a hatred of women?

What is so different in that attitude than in the attitude that has been expressed about black culture by whites for the last 250 years in the US?

Now they have simply managed to rebrand this belief and repackage it and sell it back to blacks, because many blacks may well feel that they now have little else to believe in. I guess 250 years of exclusion and persecution (from their perspective) can kind of make you feel that way.

Sure Cosby is pissed that parents of Black kids don't do more to protect their kids from these attitudes - but that's it - he isn't giving his approval to a bunch of 'good old boys' to start openly voicing their own long held and deeply engrained personal prejudices.

If that's what you read from this, then I suggest you read it again...

GJ

IamLakota

The sad part is racisim doesn't just extend toward black americans it incompasis all americans.
It all goes back to Adam and Eve if they hadn't eaten that damn apple we would all be in paradise.

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Nacht

If they hadn't eaten the apple we wouldnt be here, and the universe as we know it wouldn't exist. So we have to thank satan for that much. That is, if you believe those superstitions.

You're trying to tell me that it's white controlled corporations spreading this? what about all of the record labels started and controlled by black hip-hop artists, that continually push these types of attitudes. I resent the fact that you say whites have all been negative to black culture for the past 250...very stereotypical comment to make, man. First of all, you dont have any backup on that. Race is what is hurting this nation though. We have so many different races trying to co-exist with each other, and it does cause problems. You can't have a perfect symbiotic relationship because our cultures ARE different.

Falstaff

and in fact the perpetuation of stereotypes, largely based on ignorance is what fuels the industry for anyone that listens to the offensive and largely grotesque language of rap music. To generalize is certainly not fair, but human beings have to label and package our emotions and fear is the root of hatred and suspicion, so it doesnt surrprise me that the same emotions that drive the desire to eliminate offensive language and music is the same one that fuels the desire to have it. I had to tell my son that the education he recieved in school is flawed from the perspective of describing the struggle of inequality as over. The victory that was described in the text was a pyrric victory, if the media inisists on promoting racially driven music, what could ever be the result? The intolerance that was born of deeply rooted prejudice against people of color will not go away because we turn a blind eye. The values that we embrace from our own spiritual upbringing perhaps preaches tolerance, and acceptance, but our society demonstrates that we have had enough. Music about fornication, racism both black and white and the open use of racial slurs demonstrates that it is more than just coincidence that the media promotes it. If a man or woman of color can make a dollar by promoting racist music or language or dialogue then he or she will, I tell you it isnt the color line that is crossed everyday. I would venture to guess it is tha age old demon or sin if you will, avarice, the love of money. That is the new god that has become the center of worship. The only false idol that I can clearly see is the demon within us that drives us on. the disentergration of the American culture is happening, and it will fall like Rome did. I believe in tolerance but not at the expense of our own culture. America has evolved and become powerful on the outside, but our soft underbelly is our own children, those that would inherit the world and our nation from all of us, and I see a moral spiral downward. I see the pendulum swinging the other way very soon, and if racism was the spectre that waited for all of us to become weak. It only takes the excesses of the media and the music industry to drive many more of our conservative and spritually based people to turn the tide against the crap the media are churning out daily.

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fairchild

Yeah some white culture would surely do the trick for the black kids.

Slipknot

Fairchild

PoopyTheJ

Look there is such a thing as personal responsibility, the left leaners love to disregard the fact that your life is your responsibility. Black "culture" has only itself to blame for the degenearte state it finds itself in, blaming the media, or whitey is simply an abandonment of responsibility.

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fairchild

Whos responsible for Marilyn Manson then?Black culture ...or white culture??

blown503

If they have the lower success because they want everything handed to them, how in the world can they afford all the BLING? I mean all they want is old run down houses with weeds everywhere and cars with 22" wheels, and 40s, and some weed right?

I am friends with a lot of African Americans and they dont care much about anything except about seeing who is the toughest. Ive seen them fight untill they loose there teeth, or even one guy I know lost an eye from being kicked in the head over 50 bucks. Very few of the ones I know even care about going to work, all they want to do is party and drive around. I want to go to work to raise my family and buy nice things so I can enjoy cookouts with my friends (some are black) and family.

Ice cube has a song until we rich that pretty well sums it up that we (blacks) need to go to school, teach our own, stop shooting each other, quit trying to make a fast buck get a real job and try to succeed to become better people.

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PoopyTheJ

me = Very confused

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fairchild

Well this thread is about how degenerating black modern culture is (unless i have misunderstood) and i have posted links to examples of modern white culture in the form of two musical groups (since there was talk about rap music influencing black youth in a negative way)

I have no opinion about nor Slipknot or Marliyn Manson and their influence on white youth although considering the amount of records they sell i figure it is rather big.


Fairchild

Nacht

Well put.

Nacht

Slipknot and Marilyn Manson were born out of money. They are the same in that they try to be extremists, to attract the "angry youth". Youngsters feel like they 'connect' with this music, or 'understand' it...The labels know what the kids want, and they know how to stur up controversy and cd sales: extremism. People listen to that crap because it is angry, not because it is good music (creates an image, emotion in one...besides anger).

Although, I find some of Marilyn Manson's work good, because alot of his work was written by Trent Reznor...and NIN is a great band.

PoopyTheJ

Does MM and slipknot sell records, yeah, do I see hordes of people dressing like MM or acting like slipknot, not so much. Why?

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Falstaff

The music industry as a whole have to sell product, and that product is exploiting the angst or rebellious nature of teenagers, without labeling one group as the source of the majority of offensive product, it is fair to say that any entertainment that is offensive in nature or rebellious will be popular, I grew up with the trends of the 70s and found that the music industry was stagnant in terms of the product that they churned out for kids of my generation. Unless you were into disco, and that was a dead end unless you were gay, it was a time for change, funk, punk, and pop rock seemed to rule the airwaves. There was no MTV, but there was motown, and the blues that never changed. Now people my age are working stiffs with a mortgage and a mid life crisis, and our children are bringing home music (if you want to call it that) that describe sexual intercourse, gangster lifestyles and racism. I have to ask my children, what do you get out of the music? More than once I listened about why they thought it was entertaining, the rapper, boom car, gangsta image and the posse of young jobless toughs with their women. Now rationally discussing it, and seeing that I knew the words better than they did, surprised them, and the magic wore off quickly. I revealed to them the racism, the openly sexual themes and the fact that the only people who really enjoy the music are the only ones going to the bank with their deposits. If there is any lesson to be learned here, its that it is all about the money. So that a few can drive german cars, have their women, and live their hedonistic lifestyles without contributing anything to society is the short term goal of many young artists. Established artists and producers of color have adopted a more conservative and pragmatic position regarding the East Coast and West Coast attitudes regarding rap music and most appear to reject the profanity and the hype, preferring to focus on the human element. But it is abundently clear that Rap is not music, it is a marketing tool, a money generator for the recording industry.
Bill Cosby has courage and admits to the world he is tired of the irresponsibility of african american parents to closely nuture and guard their children, allowing the stereotypes and the myths about african americans to perpetuate. But the music industry is also liable for it too It seems that a small percentage of african americans that actually have the "gangsta" lifestyles are living their short lifespans and suffer from their own criminal ambition, but the music however is generated by that community and those that seek it out, and are exploiting them and the young men and women of all colors and misrepresenting the true nature of the music. The music industry, as a whole, IMO is aimed directly at our wallets and trying to survive. The music industry is slick and they are exploiting our racially driven fears and predjudices to move more product out of the factory, I submit, that in fact if rap recordings never existed, there would be some sort of socially irresponsible form of entertainment out there, but I fear that the damage is done now. My children didnt not take the music seriously until I pulled some of the lyrics to the music they were listening to off the web, seeing it in black and white allowed little misenterpretation. They are adults now and make their own decisions, but at least I took my responsibility seriously and began to show them that the real enemy to the family and family values and decency is our ignorance, and lazy attitudes. American families need to be even more vigilant, and not allow the recording industry and television to teach the values that we ourselves should be teaching. If there is any chance for real equality among men and women of any color to survive in the information age, it is to remain informed, and keep our heads out of the sand. If we are not careful, the racially charged times of the fortys and the fifties will return and we will have make harder choices for our children.

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@/2ct!<

wow, I was pleasantly surprised, when I first heard of this I was expecting another typical outcry about iraq or something, really like old bil, gotta listed to some of his cds now.

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Nacht

i really want to find soem dvds of his stand-up...it's hilarious!

Falstaff

Fatherhood....its a priceless gem...

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BMG_Cya=-

I like how this forum is really turning around. Some people here are actually speaking the truth for
once, and backing it up with sources. Decent sources...not the usual propaganda.

Falstaff

its the hype...it can be so tiresome

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insurrection

Personal Responsibility is a Two-Way Street: June 29, 2004
By Tim Wise

Perhaps Bill Cosby should have known better.

After all, just because you're a black man whom white folks love, doesn't mean you can actually count on them receiving your words in the spirit you say you intended.

Such a lesson became obvious in late May, when word spread about Cosby's remarks at the NAACP's 50th Anniversary Commemoration of the Brown v. Board of Education decision, striking down school segregation.

Instead of taking the opportunity to discuss the ongoing struggles for educational equity, or to address the remaining barriers of unequal funding, racially-disparate tracking and discipline, and other obstacles to meaningful parity in our nation's schools, Cosby spent his time bashing the black poor, ridiculing them for the clothes they wear, the way they speak, even the names they give their children.

It was a shameful and classist diatribe, littered with inaccurate stereotypes, all of which proved that Cosby hasn't known any poor black folks for a very long time, since few commit crime, most place a high value on education, and only a small percentage get pregnant as minors, contrary
to Cosby's apoplectic rant.

But putting aside the inaccuracy of Cosby's statements that night, what was most disturbing was the way much of white America took them.

Although Cosby, to his credit, never said that racism was a thing of the past--and indeed such is not his position at all--and although he said nothing to the effect that white folks no longer had any responsibilities to address discrimination or racism, that's what a lot of whites, and pretty
much all white conservatives, apparently heard.

Fact is, Cosby was merely trying, albeit in an obnoxious, over-the-top manner, to call for "personal responsibility" among poor blacks: an idea that is (contrary to what most whites seem to think) quite common in African-American communities, and which exists side-by-side with a keen awareness of the need for continued vigilance against various forms of racism and exclusion.

But what whites too often misunderstand is that if personal responsibility is good for the black goose, it must also be good for the white gander.

Thus, not only do Cosby's words not let whites off the hook, the spirit of his comments actually require us to be even more deliberate about taking responsibility for that which we have some control over: namely, white racism, and the discrimination that takes place in institutions that we
control, every day.

Funny how whites want to view personal responsibility as a one-way street: In other words, "they" need to clean up their act, but "we" don't need to do anything but perhaps watch, and scold them for not moving quickly enough.

I remember the first time I had this argument with a black conservative--radio talk show host Ken Hamblin--on a nationally-syndicated TV show. He was ranting and raving, much like Cosby, about blacks taking responsibility for their own lives. Rather than argue with him about his views of the black community, I simply said, "Fine, if you want black folks to take responsibility for themselves, that's great. But meanwhile, what are whites supposed to take personal responsibility for? The St. Patty's day parade? Oktoberfest?"

In other words, whites too often use "personal responsibility" as a bludgeon against others, when we no longer want to deal with the crap we put out there, whether its discrimination in lending by white banks, racial profiling by cops, or moving away from a neighborhood when too many of
"those" people move in.

After all, how can black folks take responsibility for the fact that even when they have the same level of education and experience, they still are paid less than their white counterparts, and are more likely to be unable to find a job?

How can black folks take responsibility for the fact that black men are twice as likely to have their cars stopped and searched for drugs, even though whites are twice as likely to actually have drugs on us when we're stopped?

Black and brown poor folks are doing self-help all the time, contrary to the common media imagery. They have to; after all, they have enough experience with white institutions to know that such institutions have never done much to improve their situation, and nothing at all unless it was
demanded and unless they were mobilized collectively to make it happen.

But I see very little self-help or even self-reflection in the white community. Rarely do we spend time dealing with our own internalized racial biases and fears, or the discrimination that continues to plague people of color, and which only we have any control over, since the folks doing the discriminating are white like us.

In fact, not only do we not reflect on it, we get angry when someone brings it up, which is why whites breathe a collective sigh of relief when someone like Cosby comes along and allows us to think our jobs are over.

But our jobs are not over. And if we expect people of color to take personal responsibility, irrespective of racism's existence and impact on their lives, then surely we must apply the same logic to ourselves, and take personal responsibility, irrespective of how we think black folks are
behaving, or how dysfunctional we may (falsely) perceive them to be. If they aren't allowed to pass the buck then neither can we be allowed to do so.

In other words, it is white folks' job to deal with racism, not point fingers at black and brown folks and tell them to do better. That, after all, is not taking personal responsibility; rather, it's lecturing
others about their need to do so.

Even worse, many whites actually blame others for our own racial biases. So, for example, whites will often acknowledge negative perceptions of blacks as lazy, violent, dishonest, or whatever, and then blame black folks for feeding that perception by their own actions.

Talk about not taking personal responsibility! So because of the actions of a small, unrepresentative sample of the African American community (the three percent or so who commit a violent crime annually, for example), whites feel justified in thinking negative things about blacks as a group.

And then, in what can only be viewed as the epitome of silliness, these same whites want everyone to believe that racism is no longer an obstacle for blacks, even though they have admitted to holding negative views about the entire community in question!

So we are to believe that persons holding these biases would nonetheless be able to fairly evaluate black job applicants, or potential tenants, or loan applicants; that somehow these stereotypes to which they confess would play no role in their evaluations of such persons in the real world!

Just listen to the logic here: "Racism isn't holding blacks back, it's their own laziness!" If one cannot see the irony in this comment go back and read it again; read it three or four times until you get it. If anything, statements like this are their own negation; they serve to disprove their
own claim, even before someone has the chance to respond to them.

As for Cosby--white America's favorite black man (for now)--perhaps we should ask how most whites felt about his comment several years ago that AIDS may well have been created by the U.S. Government as a plot to destroy certain communities; or the statement of his wife Camille when their son was murdered, in which she noted that America had taught her son's Russian
killer to hate blacks. As I recall, most whites either said nothing in response to these claims, or went ballistic, accusing the Cosbys of "playing the race card."

See, white folks don't like the race card, unless it's the one that helps our own hand. Whites, by and large, never listen to black people, unless they're saying what we already want to hear. That's how desperate we are to avoid taking personal responsibility for the mess that racism has
made of this nation; a mess in which we are more than a little implicated, historically speaking and still today.

Tim Wise is an antiracist essayist, activist and father. He can be reached at timjwise@msn.com
--Raza Unida Newsletter

a member of another forum that I participate in posted this in a thread on the same topic.

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Nacht

what is that man saying?!? let whites off the hook? THE HOOK OF WHAT?