What control does the US Senate have over the internet?

**dj_stick** · Jul 25, 2004, 05:49 AM

Read the news article here before postign a reply please.

i don't see how any member of any government can ban protocols on the internet. The US government, nor any government, has any control over the internet whatsoever, apart from servers that lie within their borders.

Nacht · Jul 25, 2004, 06:51 AM

ahh it's just another person attempting to create legislation for something he/she doesnt understand. it happens all of the time, and it wont get through. nothing to worry about

**dj_stick** · Jul 25, 2004, 06:54 AM

but what i don't understand is the amount of times they try this

Warpy · Jul 25, 2004, 08:36 AM

Perhaps he is trying to set a "goodie two shoes" attitude towards his audiance. He probably doesn't even know what P2P is... If anything he probably has his finger in the pie along with the Bin Laden family... Would't surprise me if he is as corrupt as your current President.

After all it's about power isnt it, and I'm sure the Saudi's would love to be in on his plans to decieve the nation.

Bush is a dip stick and lets hope they count the numbers this year for all voters!

Falstaff · Jul 25, 2004, 10:52 AM

The chinese are extremely successful throttling any anti government web traffic, and they got help from Cisco, we take the internet for granted but like driving an automobile, it is a privelege, not a right and it can be taken away.

me.myself.&.ATi · Jul 25, 2004, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fallang_jeff
The chinese are extremely successful throttling any anti government web traffic, and they got help from Cisco, we take the internet for granted but like driving an automobile, it is a privelege, not a right and it can be taken away.

Jeff....i have the utmost respect for you & your artwork but what you just said crosses the line....
since when has driving a car been/become a privilige??

This is exactly the kind of (MISLEADING) thoughts that the upper class imposes on the lower class
just to have us under their thumbs!!!!!

I mean c'mon Bro'.......when will it become a privilige to be ALIVE then???!!!!!

Honestly.....they should try to reward the few people for the things they do right, put that in the spotlight &
maybe then more will follow....

instead of inducing FEAR & TERROR with such medieval thoughts.....

I hope you see what my point is .....

Plz do excuse me for the harsh tone....as right now i'm a very ill (Lyme-disease) but just could not resist to comment on this.

Remember....."As long as personal interest is of matter, No cause is a good cause!"

May all the Gods's watch over us .....

Truly Yours,

Me.Myself.&.ATi

LeanWolf · Jul 25, 2004, 03:31 PM

um.. don't be peeved now but jeff's right, driving is a privelege. Like it or not, your gov decides what you can and cannot do (ie what's legal)! Look at canabis vs alcohol for one example.

caqde · Jul 25, 2004, 04:06 PM

The computers come and the politicians go insane.

Senator Hatch is just following the wave of stupidity going around. Wonder what the next bright idea is going to be???

Hopefully one day they will learn to go forwards instead of backwards. But for now it looks like DMCA 2.0 is on their minds. But at least some representatives are against it. To bad they're the minority at the moment as it seems.

Nacht · Jul 25, 2004, 06:23 PM

jeff has a valid point. while we will never have to undergo the filtering of websites and ban of protocols, we dont realize how lucky we have it. driving, like voting is a priviledge. if you screw up, it can and will be taken away.

Falstaff · Jul 25, 2004, 06:34 PM

I worked for the intelligence community and my family has for quite a few years, whether we admit it or not, the government prefers we openly communicate behind fragile firewalls and protocols and continue to use our cell phones with wanton abandon. The NSA and similiar organizations have the power and routinely exercise the right to monitor and record all electronic traffic in the Continental United States and Europe, encrypted or not, information is gathered, collated, deciphered or transcribed for the benefit of intelligence. You and I are not secruity threats,but they know who are, and they would rather follow the fox back to the den, than catch him in the hen house. I am not decieved by the claims of total security and 100% firewalled servers, etc etc..The government has and will continue to remain vigilient, and let simple folks like us enjoy ourselves. Read the fine print in the Patriot Act, it was there to legitimize the activity that is already being performed or conducted to gather information. Some people call it the mark of the beast, and Bill Gates is the Anti Christ...whatever, but I never forget, the more dependent on electronic communication, and gullably pretend it is totally secure, the easier it is to assume we are beyond the reach of the NSA and their brother and sister entities worldwide...I cannot speak for the soviets,. and know little else about the chinese, but our governments and tech companies actually assist them. The "free" internet is not entirely without peril, no matter how hard we believe it is safe. I do not bear false witness, for I have lived within the bubble and know what we are capable of. Within two years, we will see dramatic changes in which our government pursues and prosecutes threats, what better way than to detect, and eliminate the threats without raising eyebrows.

digerati · Jul 25, 2004, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by me.myself.&.ATi
Jeff....i have the utmost respect for you & your artwork but what you just said crosses the line....
since when has driving a car been/become a privilige??

It says in my States driving booklets.

"Remember, driving is a privelage, not a right."

Which is why you can get your license suspended or revoked for drunk driving.

Guidoo · Jul 25, 2004, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nacht
jeff has a valid point. while we will never have to undergo the filtering of websites and ban of protocols, we dont realize how lucky we have it. driving, like voting is a priviledge. if you screw up, it can and will be taken away.

Actually voting is a right...a felony can result in suspension or revocation of said right, much as other rights are stripped away for criminal acts. Six states (Alabama, Florida, Iowa, Kentucky, Mississippi, and Virginia) take away vote for life. Others have various waiting periods, dependencies on crime commited etc etc. Unlike a privilege you do not have to pass a test (ie
drivers exam). As long as you are a citizen of legal age you have the right to vote.
Quote from the 26th amendment of the US Constitution

Quote:

The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.

Guido

ToshiroOC · Jul 25, 2004, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by me.myself.&.ATi
Jeff....i have the utmost respect for you & your artwork but what you just said crosses the line....
since when has driving a car been/become a privilige??

This is exactly the kind of (MISLEADING) thoughts that the upper class imposes on the lower class
just to have us under their thumbs!!!!!

I mean c'mon Bro'.......when will it become a privilige to be ALIVE then???!!!!!

There are no rights not given to us by the power of the majority, and no privilege given to us except by the power of the majority. If the majority of America decided that you should not drive a car, no amount of exclaiming that it is your right to drive a car will prevent you from stopping them. If the majority of America decided that you should not live, no amount of exclaiming that it is your right to live will prevent you from stopping them. Rights are not absolutes, they are protections that we have built into our own society for our own sake.

But as far as the car issue goes, would you argue that a drunken man should have the right to drive a car on public roads wherever he wishes? Is it somehow the upper class imposing an illegitimate will to keep that man from possibly hitting a pedestrian?

insurrection · Jul 26, 2004, 12:11 AM

^ somehow i dont think thats what he meant...

Quote:

The Induce Act, which enjoys broad support in the music industry and from a handful of software companies, is designed to overturn an April 2003 ruling from a California judge that said StreamCast Networks, which distributes Morpheus, and Grokster were not liable for copyright infringements that took place using their software. Critics of the bill warn that it could make hardware makers like Apple and Toshiba--and even journalists--liable for products and reviews that could "induce" the public to violate copyright law.

i cant believe im reading this crap. especially the thing about journalists. thats ridiculous.

Nacht · Jul 26, 2004, 02:25 AM

it doesnt matter what he meant, it shows he didnt think through the entire thing.

insurrection · Jul 26, 2004, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nacht
it doesnt matter what he meant, it shows he didnt think through the entire thing.

true enough. but thats not what you asked

Necrosis · Jul 26, 2004, 02:38 AM

Echelon...

insurrection · Jul 26, 2004, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Necrosis
Echelon...

yeah...

ToshiroOC · Jul 27, 2004, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Necrosis
Echelon...

Yeah, but it will never be used against a citizen in a court of law, so I feel safe.

Mostly.

Besides, to address the original subject, there is nothing aside from the Constitution that limits the US Senate's power over the internet, so if they decide to legislate this, then it can become law. Not to say the courts won't strike the law down, and not to say that they're capable of enforcing it, but there's no legal barrier to keep them from trying off the bat.

Falstaff · Jul 29, 2004, 05:50 AM

I would love to see someone get involved with the internet and impose laws, then people would be more careful. Americans dont appreciate a damn thing unless they have to fight for it or protect it. Americans are getting really really soft and damn lazy. A good swift kick in the ass should shake things up a little.

Dexsal · Aug 12, 2004, 02:16 PM

its just a matter of time! ..Before governments start to take full control ... look what Punk buster are doing now!...in the future i bet ppl will be fined..........Big Brother is watching..........hehehehe

Nacht · Aug 12, 2004, 09:59 PM

what? punkbuster? are you suggesting that the senate has been bought out by evenbalance!?!?!?

are we all going to be hardware banned from the grocery store!?!?

AHHHHH!

pr0digal jenius · Aug 13, 2004, 02:08 AM

organ transplants would be the equivalent of getting a new GUID....

Falstaff · Aug 13, 2004, 05:29 PM

I think the people that are most appalled by the notion that government will monitor, regulate and restict the internet are like deer in the headlights, guess what, your internet and some intranet activity are being monitored even as you type. Look at the theme of the Patriot Act, look at the wire tapping of the 30s the 40s and even now, if you can transmit it, it can be monitored, pure and simple. Everything we do that is connected to the web can be audited, collected and evaluated. I was stationed in Japan for three years and all internet activity was monitored period!
We all have to grow up if necessary and see the potentiol threats around us from the freedoms we enjoy, unless we protect those freedoms and manage those privileges we allow people to enjoy or it can get out of hand.
1. I am for government monitoring.(it catches badguys)
2. I am for government regulation. ( without rules there is anarchy)
3. I am for testing the strength of our resources to evaluate our weaknesses.
4. I am after the pediphiles, the criminals, the pornographers, the human flesh merchants and the drug dealers, all of them use the internet to perpetuate illicet industry.
5. You want Spam to go away....lets all start paying for the internet, bag advertising altogether and become our own policeman.

I was never more concerned about the internet when my own daugher told me about a stalker and sexual offender that used campus email addresses at her college to solicit young men and women for sex. What some people think is harmless and self limited is actually a growing trend among sexual offenders and drug dealers accross the nation. You might not like the Orwelian theme of this but it is becoming evident to me. Someone has to be the policeman..

No Time · Aug 22, 2004, 11:08 AM

computer law is already beyond control some protocols are just not worth the time and money but what they do is get the votes from the public. This is a good way to go HEY PARENTS! and then tell them that there kid is looking at porn etc

No Time · Aug 22, 2004, 11:10 AM

AT least one party will be gettin the money

**dj_stick** · Aug 22, 2004, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToshiroOC

Besides, to address the original subject, there is nothing aside from the Constitution that limits the US Senate's power over the internet, so if they decide to legislate this, then it can become law. Not to say the courts won't strike the law down, and not to say that they're capable of enforcing it, but there's no legal barrier to keep them from trying off the bat.

what about the websites that do not reside on servers in the US, the American government has no control over such sites does it?

~~HawK~~ · Aug 22, 2004, 11:29 AM

This Senator makes the same misstake as many (not all) US people do..
they think the USA IS the world, that they are the only civ. Country and the rest don't matter or are just peasants...

Not jet USA!! not jet in a long way..

Jul 25, 2004, 08:36 AM	#4
Warpy DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 2,761 Rep Power: 0	Perhaps he is trying to set a "goodie two shoes" attitude towards his audiance. He probably doesn't even know what P2P is... If anything he probably has his finger in the pie along with the Bin Laden family... Would't surprise me if he is as corrupt as your current President. After all it's about power isnt it, and I'm sure the Saudi's would love to be in on his plans to decieve the nation. Bush is a dip stick and lets hope they count the numbers this year for all voters! __________________ The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Jul 25, 2004, 10:52 AM	#5
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	The chinese are extremely successful throttling any anti government web traffic, and they got help from Cisco, we take the internet for granted but like driving an automobile, it is a privelege, not a right and it can be taken away. __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Jul 25, 2004, 03:31 PM	#7
LeanWolf alpha male Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Skyrim Posts: 5,713 Rep Power: 84 System Specs	um.. don't be peeved now but jeff's right, driving is a privelege. Like it or not, your gov decides what you can and cannot do (ie what's legal)! Look at canabis vs alcohol for one example. __________________

Jul 25, 2004, 04:06 PM	#8
caqde HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: US, IL Posts: 505 Rep Power: 66 System Specs	The computers come and the politicians go insane. Senator Hatch is just following the wave of stupidity going around. Wonder what the next bright idea is going to be??? Hopefully one day they will learn to go forwards instead of backwards. But for now it looks like DMCA 2.0 is on their minds. But at least some representatives are against it. To bad they're the minority at the moment as it seems. __________________ AMD Phenom II X4 925 AM3/ Giga-byte MA790XT-UD4P XFX HD5770 1GB / 2x8GB of Geil DDR3 12800 10-10-10-28 Samsung SH-S182D DVD-RW drive / Sony Optiarc BD-5300S BD-RW drive Western Digital WD1501FASS(Primary)/Western Digital 15EADS(Secondary)/Western Digital 7500AACS(Secondary)/Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320gb(Secondary) Antec TP-550 / CoolerMaster CMStacker Sound Blaster X-FI Titanium Fatal1ty Professional / Creative Inspire 6600 6.1 speakers Samsugn T200HD 20" LCD Monitor / Logitech Internet 350 Black Keyboard Logitech MX510 Mouse

Jul 25, 2004, 06:34 PM	#10
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	I worked for the intelligence community and my family has for quite a few years, whether we admit it or not, the government prefers we openly communicate behind fragile firewalls and protocols and continue to use our cell phones with wanton abandon. The NSA and similiar organizations have the power and routinely exercise the right to monitor and record all electronic traffic in the Continental United States and Europe, encrypted or not, information is gathered, collated, deciphered or transcribed for the benefit of intelligence. You and I are not secruity threats,but they know who are, and they would rather follow the fox back to the den, than catch him in the hen house. I am not decieved by the claims of total security and 100% firewalled servers, etc etc..The government has and will continue to remain vigilient, and let simple folks like us enjoy ourselves. Read the fine print in the Patriot Act, it was there to legitimize the activity that is already being performed or conducted to gather information. Some people call it the mark of the beast, and Bill Gates is the Anti Christ...whatever, but I never forget, the more dependent on electronic communication, and gullably pretend it is totally secure, the easier it is to assume we are beyond the reach of the NSA and their brother and sister entities worldwide...I cannot speak for the soviets,. and know little else about the chinese, but our governments and tech companies actually assist them. The "free" internet is not entirely without peril, no matter how hard we believe it is safe. I do not bear false witness, for I have lived within the bubble and know what we are capable of. Within two years, we will see dramatic changes in which our government pursues and prosecutes threats, what better way than to detect, and eliminate the threats without raising eyebrows. __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Jul 25, 2004, 06:51 AM	#2
Nacht ein Krieger Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Clemson Uni Posts: 3,127 Rep Power: 0	ahh it's just another person attempting to create legislation for something he/she doesnt understand. it happens all of the time, and it wont get through. nothing to worry about

Jul 25, 2004, 06:23 PM	#9
Nacht ein Krieger Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Clemson Uni Posts: 3,127 Rep Power: 0	jeff has a valid point. while we will never have to undergo the filtering of websites and ban of protocols, we dont realize how lucky we have it. driving, like voting is a priviledge. if you screw up, it can and will be taken away.

Jul 26, 2004, 02:25 AM	#15
Nacht ein Krieger Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Clemson Uni Posts: 3,127 Rep Power: 0	it doesnt matter what he meant, it shows he didnt think through the entire thing.

Jul 26, 2004, 02:38 AM	#17
Necrosis HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 8,838 Rep Power: 131 System Specs	One word folks... Echelon...

Jul 29, 2004, 05:50 AM	#20
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	I would love to see someone get involved with the internet and impose laws, then people would be more careful. Americans dont appreciate a damn thing unless they have to fight for it or protect it. Americans are getting really really soft and damn lazy. A good swift kick in the ass should shake things up a little. __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Aug 12, 2004, 02:16 PM	#21
Dexsal Space Monocerotis Join Date: May 2004 Location: Aust Posts: 1,401 Rep Power: 0	its just a matter of time! ..Before governments start to take full control ... look what Punk buster are doing now!...in the future i bet ppl will be fined..........Big Brother is watching..........hehehehe

Aug 12, 2004, 09:59 PM	#22
Nacht ein Krieger Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Clemson Uni Posts: 3,127 Rep Power: 0	what? punkbuster? are you suggesting that the senate has been bought out by evenbalance!?!?!? are we all going to be hardware banned from the grocery store!?!? AHHHHH!

Aug 13, 2004, 02:08 AM	#23
pr0digal jenius Delete Me Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 14,648 Rep Power: 0	organ transplants would be the equivalent of getting a new GUID....

Aug 13, 2004, 05:29 PM	#24
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	I think the people that are most appalled by the notion that government will monitor, regulate and restict the internet are like deer in the headlights, guess what, your internet and some intranet activity are being monitored even as you type. Look at the theme of the Patriot Act, look at the wire tapping of the 30s the 40s and even now, if you can transmit it, it can be monitored, pure and simple. Everything we do that is connected to the web can be audited, collected and evaluated. I was stationed in Japan for three years and all internet activity was monitored period! We all have to grow up if necessary and see the potentiol threats around us from the freedoms we enjoy, unless we protect those freedoms and manage those privileges we allow people to enjoy or it can get out of hand. 1. I am for government monitoring.(it catches badguys) 2. I am for government regulation. ( without rules there is anarchy) 3. I am for testing the strength of our resources to evaluate our weaknesses. 4. I am after the pediphiles, the criminals, the pornographers, the human flesh merchants and the drug dealers, all of them use the internet to perpetuate illicet industry. 5. You want Spam to go away....lets all start paying for the internet, bag advertising altogether and become our own policeman. I was never more concerned about the internet when my own daugher told me about a stalker and sexual offender that used campus email addresses at her college to solicit young men and women for sex. What some people think is harmless and self limited is actually a growing trend among sexual offenders and drug dealers accross the nation. You might not like the Orwelian theme of this but it is becoming evident to me. Someone has to be the policeman.. __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Aug 22, 2004, 11:08 AM	#25
No Time DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 13 Rep Power: 0	computer law is already beyond control some protocols are just not worth the time and money but what they do is get the votes from the public. This is a good way to go HEY PARENTS! and then tell them that there kid is looking at porn etc

Aug 22, 2004, 11:10 AM	#26
No Time DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 13 Rep Power: 0	Yes AT least one party will be gettin the money

Aug 22, 2004, 11:29 AM	#28
~~HawK~~ Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,092 Rep Power: 0	This Senator makes the same misstake as many (not all) US people do.. they think the USA IS the world, that they are the only civ. Country and the rest don't matter or are just peasants... Not jet USA!! not jet in a long way..