drakesteakn

whatever, they shoot at u from across the border. then they kidnap and murder people from S.Korea. the can come across the border and we can't do nothing about it. if we went across we would be shot on site. people are murdered and raped, but there is no real fighting. yeah right.

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GutterPunk

not for our troops if we exchanged fire it wouldnt be a great thing

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Falstaff

since the last peace accord, or truce depending on how you look at it...lots of folks have been killed there...cutting down trees for gods sake

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ToshiroOC

I would be willing to pay higher taxes so my children don't have to pay double today's taxes to pay off the interest accumulated on the deficit of today. Its a shame that this current generation of politicians seems bent on making ME pay double taxes later on instead of simply dealing with the problem now.

Stop laughing; America has been repelled from Iraq, and if America ever tries to come back the mighty forces of the Republican Guard will once again triumph over evil.

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Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

BWX

The government wastes more money that it needs to operate. I think the answer is to make it more efficient, and less wastefull...

Also, lowering taxes does not necessarily equal less money for the government, it actually promotes fiscal growth which makes a larger tax base.
Yes it takes time, but it does work.

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Razgriz

anyone catch Arnold Schwarzenager (sp?) joke. quote "i made a movie called True Lies..........thats what the democrats called THEIR convention." god that guy, funny foreigner

ToshiroOC

The reason its cheaper to just contract out stuff for the government is because the government is extremely wasteful; the government keeps checking and doing risk reduction to the point where the risk reduction costs as much as the risk its avoiding, it has so much bureaucracy that the overhead on a project could easily be more than the actual non-staffing project costs, and overall has minimal incentive to take slightly riskier but significantly cheaper methods. Contractors don't have huge systems monitoring every baby step of a project and have huge incentives to keep costs down, and thus they do better.

Good governmental management CAN do a good job, but bad governmental management can be catastrophically worse than bad contractor management. The good managers normally go work for contractors, too, because they pay more.

I see the solution in paying government workers (and managers) equivalent rates to what they could get in the private sector, so that we don't need such a huge self-checking system and can have better qualified and more talented government workers at all echelons...

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Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

BWX

Well that would be great, too bad that whole explanation doesn't even begin to touch on the amount of outright corruption going on in the federal, state, and ever more increasingly- the local level. It's a damn disgrace. It pisses me off just thinking about it, people's hard earned money basically being taken by the government and flushed down the toilet. It's pathetic.

Dom

Yes. I also caught his "girly-man" quote too. But don't accredit hit for being funny; accredit the people writting his speaches.

Nacht

i got his 'girly-man' quote as well. i think its good that he said it. why? because ive had enough of people expressing themselves, and the media talking up a storm until that person offers some kind of apology. he needs no apology, those are his feelings, and i think he is great for standing up for it.

pr0digal jenius

I like my mom's idea for paying down the national debt. You knwo how on mortgage payments you have an option to pay your bill for the month, and then there's a spot to pay down additional principle? Why not have a slot of the tax forms to pay extra to be directly allocated to payign downt eh national debt?

ToshiroOC

Who the hell is going to pay extra? The rich are greedy and the poor need their money. How about saying "each person must pay at least <so much> in taxes before 2010", and then let them decide when its a good year and they can do that?

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Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

pr0digal jenius

why not just raise taxes then?

ToshiroOC

That's what I said I thought should happen if spending didn't go down.

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BWX

Why? You have to ask?

Falstaff

every single administration has raised taxes either for industry or for the citizens of this country. It can happen any other way. If terrorists had not attacked the US and challenged this administration it surely would have happened that way. They were playing the republican convention on the big screen at school this evening and young democrats were incensed by the process, young voters who have never actually participated in the political process and were jubilant when they saw the popular media deride the republicans or focused on the demonstrations downtown in New York. I saw them visibly effected by the media and wonder what purpose it serves to reinforce that feeling of frustration and unfairness that all young people have about the world in general. Again, the popular media uses sensationalism to exacerabate the open wounds of the nation that Pres. Bush is trying to heal. So many of the young poeple confuse the mistakes made by Pres. Clinton with Bush, and I believe the democratic party is dishonest in indulging in it.

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Nacht

I really like how you immidiately categorize the rich as "greedy" because they dont want the government deciding what to do with their money. This is beside the point. Rich people arent "greedy", or theyd be doing more about the current discriminatory practices. The richest 8% pay 55% of the taxes in this country.

ToshiroOC

I meant greedy only in the sense that they wouldn't voluntarily give money to the government if they didn't have to.

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Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

OldBuzzard

HHmmmmm...ToshiroOC....so I am to assume that YOU are giving extra money to the government "even if you don't have to" ????

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When looking for a reason as to why things go wrong, never rule out sheer STUPIDITY

BWX

You know what else? "Rich" people create JOBS for "regular" people.

The more you "tax the rich", the more they cut jobs and growth and regular people lose jobs...

Do you want your boss taxed more or less? I want my boss to get taxed less, he will have more money to expand his business and give ME a raise, and give my FRIEND a job... See how it all works people?

Capitalism is a great thing. Of course taxes are a necessary evil, and Capitalism needs regulation- but balance is key. With the *correct* amount of taxes and regulation, people will naturally prosper and grow. If taxes and red tape overwhelm, the economy will suffer.. along with the people depending on it.

Many people understand the free market, but sadly many people have no idea or are brainwashed to believe in something that obviously doesn't work.

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ToshiroOC

No, but I'll do my damndest to help those who would reduce the government's need for money get elected.

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OldBuzzard

So...you expect THEM to do something that YOU aren't willing to do?

WHY? Just because they have a few more $$$ than you do? Or. are you just as 'greedy' as they are?

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pr0digal jenius

until we have a flat rate taxing system, anyone bitching about the rich not wanting to pay mroe taxes(as they already pay more per $ earned then the rest fo us) needs to go back to 6th grade and learn proportions again.

if i make $100 and pay 10 in taxes, and he makes $100,000 and pays $15,000 in taxes.....i certainy have no reason to complain, as I pay 10% and he pays 15%...just cuz he makes mroe then me doesn't mean he needs to pull my weight in the tax bracket

ToshiroOC

I'm not liking the tone of your posts, and I'm not even sure I understand what you're asking.

Regardless, what I am trying to say is that if the government does not reduce spending, they should increase taxes instead of going into deficit (and costing us citizens more in taxes years later). I am also saying that asking for volunteers to charitably donate to the government's cause in addition to their normal taxes will not work, since the poor need all the money they have, and those who have the means to help the government will choose not to beyond paying taxes.

Does that make sense?

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pr0digal jenius

those with the will do to so will not all say no...i for one would glady toss in some $$ to pay down principal..and my guess si you would do the same since you're obviously against defecit. And i agree the gov. should spend less...but they tend to cut the wrong things....such as education and medicare and stuff, instead of what needs to be cut like...military spending and campaign warchests and such

OldBuzzard

Raising taxes will only make the deficit worse. It's been proven the LOWERING taxes results in an INCREASE in tax revenue. It happened when JFK lowered taxes in the 60's and when Reagan did it in the 80's.

Lower taxes means more $$ in each person's pocket which they then spend, which means that manufacturers have to increase production, which means that they have to hire more people (who now pay taxes), which means that there are more people buying more things which...

Raise my taxes, and now I don't have as much $$ to spend, so I cut back on my spending, so I don't buy that new dishwasher that the wife wants, or I keep the car a few years longer, which means that there is a surplus at the factory, which means that the manufacturer cuts back and lays off a couple of people (who now pay NO taxes and need tax money for help). so raise the taxes to get the $$ for them which means I have less $$. which means....

Yes we are in a deficate right now, but it's only in the neighborhood of 3-4% of the GNP. That's equivilent of us having credit card/mortgage/auto loans of 4% of our base salary.

I also see the argument about how much $$ the 'rich' got back in the tax refund. "He got 2.000.00, and I only got back 200.00. waaaaaa" Yeah, he did get back 10x more that you, but dammit, he PAYED in 10x more that you did too.

As for cutting spending in Education etc...that has NEVER happened. We may have cut the RATE OF INCREASE in the spending, but the actual $$ amount has increased each year. In fact we now spend more on Education than Defense. Quit listening to 'talking points' and do the research yourself. The information is available if you would look for it.

Another point to ponder...we keep spending more and more $$ on education, but we keep getting less and less. Maybe a cut might turn that around. When I was in school we had books, paper, and pencils, yet, I graduated in 1964 and I could make change without having a computer in front of me and without doing it on paper. I knew where my state was, I knew who the Vice-President was, I knew where all the countries of the world were, and could locate them on a map. As a highschool grad any of those questions today and in most cases all you would get is a blank stare. HOWEVER, I will admit that I was NOT the best at speeling

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When looking for a reason as to why things go wrong, never rule out sheer STUPIDITY