Should Ralph Nader be included in the presidential debates?

RDoggy · Sep 1, 2004, 01:28 AM

My opinion is he should be included.Nader is a substantial candidate, one whose issues and priorities are different from John Kerry and George W. Bush.

The best thing about the frantic presidential primary season was plenty of television and radio debates. On the Republican side, the worst thing about the primaries was that there were too many candidates for the time allowed. That meant lots of rhetorical heat and little enlightenment.

So we have some sympathy for the gatekeepers of debates slated for the general election. To present substantive debates requires limiting participation to substantive, viable candidates. Provided that he continues to campaign aggressively, Ralph Nader is one of those candidates and should be included in this fall's presidential debates. Trouble is, the Commission on Presidential Debates, composed of only Democrats and Republicans, puts up high barriers for third-party candidates. Early this year the commission said it set two qualifications of the three presidential debates it is running. One is that a candidate's name must appear on enough state ballots to have a mathematical chance of winning a majority in the Electoral College. The other is a candidate must be polling 15 percent in five specific major national polls.

We aren't sure there is a magic number that puts a candidate over the threshold of seriousness. Nader himself argues for a poll showing of 5 percent the figure in states like Minnesota for third parties to gain ballot access. But we do know that Nader is a substantial candidate, one whose issues and priorities are different from Al Gore and George W. Bush. In his own way, Nader can add to the political dialogue as effectively as Ross Perot did in the 1992 Reform Party run against fiscal irresponsibility in Establishment Washington.

Nacht · Sep 1, 2004, 01:52 AM

he cant win, so i dont see why it matters.

Alistair · Sep 1, 2004, 03:28 AM

If he is included, the Constitutional Party should also be included as it is on more ballots than he is.

Falstaff · Sep 1, 2004, 04:09 AM

if he really stirs things up, he will definitely take votes away from the democrats..

The_Neon_Cowboy · Sep 1, 2004, 04:32 AM

he's ran many times he's never had 1/1,000,000 of a chance at winning. Unless the other two canadates died in some freak accadent on election day, even then you'd see new canadates and he'd still lose

he should be removed form the ticket especally since he failed his obligations! he will not be on all ballots in all states

.... I have a funny fealing he'll just lay down and tell his supporters to vote for kerry at the last minute....

he shouldn't be able to debate or even be on the ballot...

ToshiroOC · Sep 1, 2004, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Neon_Cowboy

he shouldn't be able to debate or even be on the ballot...

Why? Just because someone doesn't come from one of the two major political parties doesn't mean that they don't have anything useful to say nor that they should be excluded from the democratic process.

I would rather see Badnarik in the debates than Nader, though.

Sturmbahn · Sep 1, 2004, 11:28 PM

I'd like to see more third party candidates in the public's eye. Wasn't there a recent poll that showed over 80% of Americans are dissatisfied with the current choice of candidates? Here's their chance to break into the system and create a legitimate third party in this time of political weakness.

Dom · Sep 1, 2004, 11:46 PM

Although John Kerry is getting my vote this November, I think Nader should be included on the ballots and should be able to participate in debates. Personally I think there should be four canadates on the ballots. American's shouldn't have to choose either left or right.

We're one step away from how Iraq was; Saddam or not Saddam.

Rasta Monsta · Sep 1, 2004, 11:56 PM

A vote for Nader is a vote for W. The guy is an egomaniacal idiot who should take a long ride on a twisty mountain road in a Corvair Turbo.

rasta

GutterPunk · Sep 2, 2004, 12:27 AM

he should be included... itd be nice to see some of his points on the questions

pr0digal jenius · Sep 2, 2004, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Neon_Cowboy

he shouldn't be able to debate or even be on the ballot...

move to cuba

Dom · Sep 2, 2004, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pr0digal jenius

move to cuba

LOL, good point. It's funny how many 'democratic' people (Democrats and Republicans alike) think their views are that of democracy when in fact they're closer to communism and dictatorship.

ToshiroOC · Sep 2, 2004, 02:00 AM

Nader is the ultimate Abilene paradox.

pr0digal jenius · Sep 2, 2004, 03:40 AM

he should still be treated like everyone else and allowed to run for office

The_Neon_Cowboy · Sep 2, 2004, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToshiroOC

Why? Just because someone doesn't come from one of the two major political parties doesn't mean that they don't have anything useful to say nor that they should be excluded from the democratic process.

I would rather see Badnarik in the debates than Nader, though.

yea thats fair kerry and nader bashing bush,
and nader advertiseing kerry

yea that would be legit -not

he's just going to fold at the last minute he has zero change of winning he's ran many times no were near winning.... he should buck up, and get out the race...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom

Although John Kerry is getting my vote this November, I think Nader should be included on the ballots and should be able to participate in debates. Personally I think there should be four canadates on the ballots. American's shouldn't have to choose either left or right.

We're one step away from how Iraq was; Saddam or not Saddam.

see the thing is with nader out of the equation bush will have a clean win....
a vote for nader helps kerry.... of couse you know that...

Captn · Sep 2, 2004, 09:27 AM

Go Bush !

CDsDontBurn · Sep 2, 2004, 09:55 AM

in the 2000 elections, Gore would have won if it weren't for two things:

1. Florida not being able to count
2. Ralph Nader.

Back in 1912, the republican party had literally split in two. Theodore Roosevelt, and Howard Taft split the Repulican party in half allowing Woodrow Willson to win the presidential election. Blah.....i could go on forever..... U.S. History is my favorite

.

bluewin · Sep 2, 2004, 10:07 AM

this guy used to be good when he did what he was qualified to do -
venturing into politics has been illfated from the very beginning. He was the one who did make the " Florida Miracle " for ol G.W. possible after all.

This is in no way linked to left or right - the query is G.W. BUSH support - or opening the way for a change to the better.

Rasta Monsta · Sep 2, 2004, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pr0digal jenius

move to cuba

HAR HAR HAR, I love it when someone is invited to move to Cuba for expressing a political opinion!

Now THAT IS IRONY!

rasta

Dom · Sep 2, 2004, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Neon_Cowboy

see the thing is with nader out of the equation bush will have a clean win....
a vote for nader helps kerry.... of couse you know that...

Excuse you, Neon, but you are wrong.

Infact there are supporters of Bush that want Nader on the ballot as it would take votes away from Kerry therefore helping their canadate; Bush.

pr0digal jenius · Sep 2, 2004, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rasta Monsta

HAR HAR HAR, I love it when someone is invited to move to Cuba for expressing a political opinion!

Now THAT IS IRONY!

rasta

when your political opinion is to stifle the opinions and rights of others it becomes tyranical, and not mere opinion

GutterPunk · Sep 2, 2004, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pac-Man

in the 2000 elections, Gore would have won if it weren't for two things:

1. Florida not being able to count
2. Ralph Nader.

Back in 1912, the republican party had literally split in two. Theodore Roosevelt, and Howard Taft split the Repulican party in half allowing Woodrow Willson to win the presidential election. Blah.....i could go on forever..... U.S. History is my favorite

.

oddly enough i heard on CNN, Good morning america, and NPR that it was actually the opposite. The votes for nader came from more republicans then democrats. I found it funny when i heard it

Dom · Sep 2, 2004, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GutterPunk

oddly enough i heard on CNN, Good morning america, and NPR that it was actually the opposite. The votes for nader came from more republicans then democrats. I found it funny when i heard it

How exactly did they find this out? I thought votes were confidental.

GutterPunk · Sep 2, 2004, 08:14 PM

beats me but they said it on the news programs oh heck a share of months ago... back when edwards and all them were running for the democratic canidate

also, how else do they get the 'out of party' polls.

ToshiroOC · Sep 3, 2004, 03:41 AM

They ask people in either phone polls or exit polls.

CDsDontBurn · Sep 3, 2004, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToshiroOC

They ask people in either phone polls or exit polls.

Some people won't even give a clear answer after they've voted. I know this one guy who says something like "I voted for the person running for office."

Dom · Sep 3, 2004, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToshiroOC

They ask people in either phone polls or exit polls.

And we all know how accurate those are...

pr0digal jenius · Sep 3, 2004, 05:35 PM

no less accurate the a florida vote tally

ToshiroOC · Sep 4, 2004, 05:46 AM

They are accurate enough to get a sense for the way the election is going - they normally have a margin of only 3 percent or so, and in 3rd world countries exit polls are always used to verify elections and make sure there wasn't some trickery between the ballot box and the result.

And if someone comes out and gives an inaccurate answer, you just mark it as "did not respond" and add them to the error margin, not that big of a deal.

pr0digal jenius · Sep 5, 2004, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToshiroOC

They are accurate enough to get a sense for the way the election is going - they normally have a margin of only 3 percent or so, and in 3rd world countries exit polls are always used to verify elections and make sure there wasn't some trickery between the ballot box and the result.

And if someone comes out and gives an inaccurate answer, you just mark it as "did not respond" and add them to the error margin, not that big of a deal.

depending on the study and the # of subjects, even 3% can be statistically significant....and you can't hedge votes that aren't true as 'DNR'....that means you monkeyed with the numbers

Sep 1, 2004, 01:28 AM	#1
RDoggy DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 106 Rep Power: 0	Should Ralph Nader be included in the presidential debates? My opinion is he should be included.Nader is a substantial candidate, one whose issues and priorities are different from John Kerry and George W. Bush. The best thing about the frantic presidential primary season was plenty of television and radio debates. On the Republican side, the worst thing about the primaries was that there were too many candidates for the time allowed. That meant lots of rhetorical heat and little enlightenment. So we have some sympathy for the gatekeepers of debates slated for the general election. To present substantive debates requires limiting participation to substantive, viable candidates. Provided that he continues to campaign aggressively, Ralph Nader is one of those candidates and should be included in this fall's presidential debates. Trouble is, the Commission on Presidential Debates, composed of only Democrats and Republicans, puts up high barriers for third-party candidates. Early this year the commission said it set two qualifications of the three presidential debates it is running. One is that a candidate's name must appear on enough state ballots to have a mathematical chance of winning a majority in the Electoral College. The other is a candidate must be polling 15 percent in five specific major national polls. We aren't sure there is a magic number that puts a candidate over the threshold of seriousness. Nader himself argues for a poll showing of 5 percent the figure in states like Minnesota for third parties to gain ballot access. But we do know that Nader is a substantial candidate, one whose issues and priorities are different from Al Gore and George W. Bush. In his own way, Nader can add to the political dialogue as effectively as Ross Perot did in the 1992 Reform Party run against fiscal irresponsibility in Establishment Washington.

Sep 1, 2004, 03:28 AM	#3
Alistair Spoos Join Date: May 2002 Location: State College, PA, USA Posts: 435 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	If he is included, the Constitutional Party should also be included as it is on more ballots than he is. __________________ - Alistair

Sep 1, 2004, 04:09 AM	#4
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	if he really stirs things up, he will definitely take votes away from the democrats.. __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Sep 1, 2004, 04:32 AM	#5
The_Neon_Cowboy HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 16,009 Rep Power: 92 System Specs	he's ran many times he's never had 1/1,000,000 of a chance at winning. Unless the other two canadates died in some freak accadent on election day, even then you'd see new canadates and he'd still lose he should be removed form the ticket especally since he failed his obligations! he will not be on all ballots in all states .... I have a funny fealing he'll just lay down and tell his supporters to vote for kerry at the last minute.... he shouldn't be able to debate or even be on the ballot... __________________

Sep 2, 2004, 12:27 AM	#10
GutterPunk I = Greatest Dood Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nebraska Posts: 5,949 Rep Power: 71	he should be included... itd be nice to see some of his points on the questions __________________ Rock On \m/ Thank you Mousey for the Sig! --------------- Intel Core2Duo E6660 (3.4GHZ) ~ Tuniq Tower 120 ~ Enermax Galaxy 1000W ~ Corsair Dominator @ 1090MHZ 5-5-5-15 (OCZ XTC Modded Cooler)~ EVGA 8800GTX W/ HR-03 Plus 120MM ~ Asus DVD-RW LiteScribe ~ LG DVD-RW ~ Corsair Voyager 2GB ReadyBoost Drive ~ Vantec Nexus Fan Controller ~ ThermalTake Armor 25CM fan ~ Personal Finance Blog: Dent Your Debt

Sep 1, 2004, 01:52 AM	#2
Nacht ein Krieger Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Clemson Uni Posts: 3,127 Rep Power: 0	he cant win, so i dont see why it matters.

Sep 1, 2004, 11:28 PM	#7
Sturmbahn DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 156 Rep Power: 0	I'd like to see more third party candidates in the public's eye. Wasn't there a recent poll that showed over 80% of Americans are dissatisfied with the current choice of candidates? Here's their chance to break into the system and create a legitimate third party in this time of political weakness.

Sep 1, 2004, 11:46 PM	#8
Dom DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 12,940 Rep Power: 0	Although John Kerry is getting my vote this November, I think Nader should be included on the ballots and should be able to participate in debates. Personally I think there should be four canadates on the ballots. American's shouldn't have to choose either left or right. We're one step away from how Iraq was; Saddam or not Saddam.

Sep 2, 2004, 02:00 AM	#13
ToshiroOC Unbiased. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 4,812 Rep Power: 0	Nader is the ultimate Abilene paradox. __________________ [img][/img] [color=White]Peace be with you, Joe.[/color] Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

Sep 2, 2004, 03:40 AM	#14
pr0digal jenius Delete Me Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 14,648 Rep Power: 0	he should still be treated like everyone else and allowed to run for office

Sep 2, 2004, 09:27 AM	#16
Captn DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: USA Posts: 206 Rep Power: 0	Go Bush ! __________________ Asus P4C800-E Deluxe P4 2.8cGhz @ 3.4Ghz 1024mb Corsair XMS Leadtek GeForce 6800 Ultra Audigy 2 ZS Enermax 550 Watt WD 160Gig WD 160Gig

Sep 2, 2004, 09:55 AM	#17
CDsDontBurn Lurking DriverHeaven Join Date: May 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 22,805 Rep Power: 235 System Specs	in the 2000 elections, Gore would have won if it weren't for two things: 1. Florida not being able to count 2. Ralph Nader. Back in 1912, the republican party had literally split in two. Theodore Roosevelt, and Howard Taft split the Repulican party in half allowing Woodrow Willson to win the presidential election. Blah.....i could go on forever..... U.S. History is my favorite . __________________ Her First Day \| A year later

Sep 2, 2004, 10:07 AM	#18
bluewin HardwareHeaven Newbie Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3 Rep Power: 0	Nader - who ?? this guy used to be good when he did what he was qualified to do - venturing into politics has been illfated from the very beginning. He was the one who did make the " Florida Miracle " for ol G.W. possible after all. This is in no way linked to left or right - the query is G.W. BUSH support - or opening the way for a change to the better.

Sep 2, 2004, 08:14 PM	#24
GutterPunk I = Greatest Dood Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nebraska Posts: 5,949 Rep Power: 71	beats me but they said it on the news programs oh heck a share of months ago... back when edwards and all them were running for the democratic canidate also, how else do they get the 'out of party' polls. __________________ Rock On \m/ Thank you Mousey for the Sig! --------------- Intel Core2Duo E6660 (3.4GHZ) ~ Tuniq Tower 120 ~ Enermax Galaxy 1000W ~ Corsair Dominator @ 1090MHZ 5-5-5-15 (OCZ XTC Modded Cooler)~ EVGA 8800GTX W/ HR-03 Plus 120MM ~ Asus DVD-RW LiteScribe ~ LG DVD-RW ~ Corsair Voyager 2GB ReadyBoost Drive ~ Vantec Nexus Fan Controller ~ ThermalTake Armor 25CM fan ~ Personal Finance Blog: Dent Your Debt

Sep 3, 2004, 03:41 AM	#25
ToshiroOC Unbiased. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 4,812 Rep Power: 0	They ask people in either phone polls or exit polls. __________________ [img][/img] [color=White]Peace be with you, Joe.[/color] Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

Sep 3, 2004, 05:35 PM	#28
pr0digal jenius Delete Me Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 14,648 Rep Power: 0	no less accurate the a florida vote tally

Sep 4, 2004, 05:46 AM	#29
ToshiroOC Unbiased. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 4,812 Rep Power: 0	They are accurate enough to get a sense for the way the election is going - they normally have a margin of only 3 percent or so, and in 3rd world countries exit polls are always used to verify elections and make sure there wasn't some trickery between the ballot box and the result. And if someone comes out and gives an inaccurate answer, you just mark it as "did not respond" and add them to the error margin, not that big of a deal. __________________ [img][/img] [color=White]Peace be with you, Joe.[/color] Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)