digerati

Although somehow I doubt that Britain will be looked down upon as much as us stupid Americans...

Wasn't Aushwitz that Jewish summercamp where they made arts and crafts?

Source: http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...ing%20Standard

raid517

Lol.. We could aways play a game of dumb and dumber... I mean I throw some funny and insanely dumb numbers at you - and you throw some equally dumb numbers back at me. The point being that we try to find what really is the dumbest thing you ever heard. I think we did this once before if I recall correctly. I really like this kind of game.

But I personally don't recall ever saying that I believed Americans were really any dumber than anyone else. Just a certain section of the population - and a certain individual in particular.

I think everywhere these days we have an idiot element. If you ran this story in France, Germany, Norway - or indeed even America, I'm pretty sure you would get a more or less similar response. (The best anyone can hope for I suspect is that the results in their own country wouldn't be significantly worse than the figures printed here). Unfortunately what this story doesn't point out is that most of those questioned were under 25. I think the numbers would change dramatically if you cared to ask older people exactly what their views on this subject were.

I'm not sure it excuses it. But then I'm still too young myself (or at least I think I am) to start complaining about the ills of youth. But hey, what can you do? One day the Holocaust will seem like nothing more than a dim historical story to most people. All of those who were there or who took part in WWII will eventually die - as will their immediate descendants. If history shows anything, it's that people do forget - which is why I guess history has such a terrible habit of repeating itself.

All I can say is that at least my own kids will grow up knowing more than their fair share about these subjects. I have a library of over 3000 books, 1200 videos and DVDs - all of which are documentaries covering science, politics, history and the arts, countless educational CDROM's and encyclopedias - and for the first (10 and) 12 years of their lives I point blank refused to even consider buying a TV.

I guess they had no option but to learn.

Best regards,

GJ

raid517

Hmm... I wonder what would happen if you asked a few hundred average Americans under the age of 25 whether or not they had heard of Pearl Harbour what they would say? Or what would happen if you asked them to name the 5 main players (or leaders) in the war? Can you name them all off the top of your head?

That would be an interesting experiment.

GJ

Falstaff

Ignorance is not stupidity...
the only weapon against it is knowlege..

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pr0digal jenius

stupidity should be painful....

digerati

I'm bad with names but I'll take a swing anyways.

Hitler, Stalin, Hirohito

Churchill, Roosevelt

pr0digal jenius

I think that's right ^_^, with mussolini being the 6th man out....lol

raid517

Ahh but from a certain perspective there were really seven main players when you think about it... ;D

The point being anyway that I would be willing to bet good money that if you ran a survey like this among under 25's in any part of the world (not least of all in the USA itself) I'm pretty sure you would get some simlarly apparently extremely dumb answers.

Yoiu almost feel like saying 'what has gone wrong with the youth of today.' But that does seem too much like the sort of thing old people would say - and as I said previously, I don't think I'm quite there yet.

GJ

Falstaff

I can say with some satifaction that when I convinced my son to compare the crimes of Stalin and Hitler against humanity he was surprised to see that the Russian leader was far more destructive than his german contemporary..What did Mussolini do, invade Africa right? and of course some fascist crimes that apart of the political turmoil of Italy at the time, his contribution to the invasion of other countries and the subsequent occupation was a drop in the terrible ocean of blood that was the early wartime Europe.

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raid517

And... where are you going with that Jeff? I'm sorry I'm just a little confused. I don't see the point you are trying to make...

GJ

digerati

And I think most Americans would know Pearl Harbor, mainly because it's a crappy blockbuster movie.

Mussolini invaded Ethiopa and couldn't conquer it on his own, the Italian army was a joke. And he got the death he deserved.

raid517

Well that kind of says a lot. I mean would they all know that it was real? And in any case what if they did accept the hollywood version of history as being real? From the Hollywood perspective you have America as the only country interested in confronting tyranny in WWII, the US as the original captors of the first enigma machine, American pilots flocking to crew British planes in the Battle of Britain and single handedly saving the poor Limey's assess, the US being the only country who made any kind of significant contribution in the war and who pretty much liberated Europe (and the Far East) more or less single handedly.

You guys should look out for a movie called 'Churchill the Hollywood Years.' It's a spoof on how Hollywood would tell the story of Winston Churchill as he struggled to keep Britain on it's feet for the first two or more years of the war. It potrays him as a US Marine who wise cracks as he conquers the D-Day beach of Normandy and wins the war all on his own - while fighting a constant battle with the rest of the British government to try to pursaude them to not keep offering to surrender. (The premise being that the Hollywood producers were a little disappointed that Churchill was really a fat old man - so in typical hollywood style they decided to replace him with a handsome young hunk - who also just happend to be an American Marine). You can check the trailer out here http://www.tiscali.co.uk/entertainme...ood_years.html).

So I think if most Americans get their version of history via Hollywood - which often seems to be the case - then that is probably just as dumb as anything you might have read about on this side of the pond.

But nonetheless I think describing it as dumb is possibly a mistake. It is certainly sad. This survey wasn't just targeted at a specific social segment - like low earners, or those who didn't attend college or whatever. Like most surveys it was probably pretty random. So what you have in there are young professionals, lawyers, business people, community leaders and even no doubt some teachers. All people you wouldn't normally qualify as being dumb. I think the problem is that (as I said before) people really are just starting to forget. It is not a subject that is taught widely in schools any more - and overall history is a much neglected subject. I think this is about education - or the wrong kind of education - and that certain topics that are important are too often being neglected.

Which incidentally is exactly why this survey was conducted. The whole point of it was that it was supposed to promote a major new documentary series by the BBC covering the stories of many of the guards who worked in the death camps - and what their views on the whole thing were 60 years or so after WWII ended. Apparently the majority of them are not very apologetic. They seem to think that because they believed in what they were doing at that time that this made the many crimes the committed acceptable.

So anyway there probably was more than a little promotion involved. The BBC do sell a lot of their stuff to the US though - so no doubt in the months to come you will hear of a similar survey - with probably very similar results in your country too.

GJ

Vasot

Mussolini invaded in Greece too (Italy is a neighbour country)
But we kicked his as*

Of course after a while them the Germans with Hitler came with tanks etc allied with the Mousolini Italians (later they broke their alliance) .

We had no weapons against tanks and the weapons against German STUKAS was bad,

The only thing we could do according my Grandfather was to to stuck inside the Tank wheels with rocks or clothes etc if someone was close to it from the side
So the Tank could not move or the wheels were damaged

We had a song mocking Mousolini and his army

Falstaff

I used to live in Crete, the despotes of Europe are well known there. Italians and Germans as well, such atrocities. My father took me too Maleme airfield where the German paratroopers landed and sustained heavy casualties. I saw markers to thousands of Greeks that were massacred by the Gestapo.

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Zardon

The movie is also historically incorrect.

Mr cairo

be honest though what movie isnt these days ....... history is written by the winners ........ and the screenwriters

i know what auzwitch is but then i grew up with hollywood war movies and my grandparents were alive and fought in the war so i have a basic working knowledge of the war

but i can kind of understand why kids these days dont know what happened 60 years ago ...partly its educations fault , in school i did the stone age the iron age the bronze age and then briefly skimmed over 1900 - 1950 there was no real info on recent history in school and abso;utly nothing on the death camps and the holocaust but shit that happened 200 years ago thats a diffrent matter

dunno if the same in america ... i mean we do get things like this is churchill this is hitler but actual events are very glossed over

time to stop teaching our kids what happened 1000 years ago and teach them what happened in the last 100 years ...... if the future generations dont learn from historys mistakes they will probably repeat then

probably havnt explained myself very well there

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dj_stick

i think you have cairo… if we don't learn from out recent past, chances are it might happen again…

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violat3

Eh think you'll find Emperor Hirohito was against teh war (he had very little say in the matter as teh military held the real power) as were teh Imperial Japaneese navy high command yet he was banded about as teh villian in teh whole affair , teh real culprits were teh Japaneese goverment and teh Army high command General Tojo being teh main instigator

"Though I consider the surrounding seas as my brothers Why is it that the waves should rise so high?"

Vasot

1)The Despotes ?? I do not understand what you mean ??


2) Yes Thousands of Greeks died
From The Germans especially from Executions etc
just like in many other European Countries of course where the Germans invaded

The Jewish Community in Greece was completely destroyed and many Greeks that were in the Resistance too
They hunted the Jewes like dogs even in here and not only in the other countries


In Kalabryta, the 85% of population were executed and in other places as well.
Woman, man and children were slaughtered like pigs before leaving Greece (non Jewes) when the Germans started to lose their War and withdraw,
also many women that lived were raped if not killed

All our lives in here we were fighting a Invader since ancient ages
we won many fights alone (and in some others we lost) and some was won with the Help of Allies later

(especially USA during WW2 which yes they free Greece which was a Wreck from the Germans and the wars of the past,
English, and Russians especially during Byzantium ages which they soppurted us against the Turks and Albanians etc)

but we lost from these wars a lot already and i am not meaning in fights

We had wars with many
Persians, Romans, Turkey, Albanians, Italians, Germans ,Civil wars and with war with Turkey again which they found the opportunity to invade and we lost half of Cyprus when we had Military dictatorship from 1964-1974 (fortunately overthrowned and democracy was restored ) almost in all our lives we had a war with someone

I am lucky that i was not born during the wars, it was very harsh in here during that times and i guess you must be feel lucky too


Greeks have some plenty big similarities with the Scottish i think

Nicky-chan

I didnt know what Aushwitz was till now, of corse I got resone. Ive never been to school period! Learnd what I know on my own. They dont have resone bleh, arnt they suppost know about it?

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The_Neon_Cowboy

Here in the US we are all tought this stuff in school... It's just that many easily forget as it's knowledge you don't commonly use....

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