Necrosis

Subject: One German's Viewpoint REQUIRED READING
The editorial reproduced below, entitled was written by Mathias
Dvpfner, CEO of the large German publishing firm Axel Springer, and
published in the German periodical Die Welt on 20 November 2004.

**************************************

A few days ago Henry Broder wrote in Welt am Sonntag, "Europe - your family name is appeasement." It's a phrase you can't get out of your head because it's so terribly true.

Appeasement cost millions of Jews and non-Jews their lives as England and France, allies at the time, negotiated and hesitated too long before they noticed that Hitler had to be fought, not bound to toothless agreements.

Appeasement legitimized and stabilized Communism in the Soviet Union, then East Germany, then all the rest of Eastern Europe where for decades, inhuman, suppressive, murderous governments were glorified as the ideologically correct alternative to all other possibilities.

Appeasement crippled Europe when genocide ran rampant in Kosovo, and, even though we had absolute proof of ongoing mass-murder, we Europeans debated and debated and debated, and were still debating when finally the Americans had to come from halfway around the world, into Europe yet again, and do our work for us.

Rather than protecting democracy in the Middle East, European appeasement, camouflaged behind the fuzzy word "equidistance," now countenances suicide bombings in Israel by fundamentalist Palestinians.

Appeasement generates a mentality that allows Europe to ignore nearly 500,000 victims of Saddam's torture and murder machinery and, motivated by the self-righteousness of the peace-movement, has the gall to issue bad grades to George Bush... Even as it is uncovered that the loudest critics of the American action in Iraq made illicit billions, no, TENS of billions, in the corrupt U. N. Oil-for-Food program.

And now we are faced with a particularly grotesque form of appeasement. How is Germany reacting to the escalating violence by Islamic fundamentalists in Holland and elsewhere? By suggesting that we really should have a "Muslim Holiday" in Germany.

I wish I were joking, but I am not. A substantial fraction of our (German) Government, and if the polls are to be believed, the German people, actually believe that creating an Official State "Muslim Holiday" will somehow spare us from the wrath of the fanatical Islamists.

One cannot help but recall Britain's Neville Chamberlain waving the laughable treaty signed by Adolph Hitler, and declaring European "Peace in our time".

What else has to happen before the European public and its political leadership get it? There is a sort of crusade underway, an especially perfidious crusade consisting of systematic attacks by fanatic Muslims, focused on civilians, directed against our free, open Western societies, and intent upon Western Civilization's utter destruction.

It is a conflict that will most likely last longer than any of the great military conflicts of the last century - a conflict conducted by an enemy that cannot be tamed by "tolerance" and "accommodation" but is actually spurred on by such gestures, which have proven to be, and will always be taken by the Islamists for signs of weakness.

Only two recent American Presidents had the courage needed for anti-appeasement: Reagan and Bush.

His American critics may quibble over the details, but we Europeans know the truth. We saw it first hand: Ronald Reagan ended the Cold War, freeing half of the German people from nearly 50 years of terror and virtual slavery. And Bush, supported only by the Social Democrat Blair, acting on moral conviction, recognized the danger in the Islamic War against democracy. His place in history will have to be evaluated after a number of years have passed.

In the meantime, Europe sits back with charismatic self-confidence in the multicultural corner, instead of defending liberal society's values and being an attractive center of power on the same playing field as the true great powers, America and China.

On the contrary, we Europeans present ourselves, in contrast to those "arrogant Americans", as the World Champions of "tolerance", which even Otto Schily justifiably criticizes.

Why?

Because we're so moral? I fear it's more because we're so materialistic, so devoid of a moral compass.

For his policies, Bush risks the fall of the dollar, huge amounts of additional national debt, and a massive and persistent burden on the American economy, because unlike almost all of Europe, Bush realizes what is at stake - literally everything.

While we criticize the "capitalistic robber barons" of America because they seem too sure of their priorities, we timidly defend our Social Welfare systems. Stay out of it! It could get expensive! We'd rather discuss reducing our 35-hour workweek or our dental coverage, or our 4 weeks of paid vacation, or listen to TV pastors preach about the need to "Reach out to terrorists, to understand and forgive".

These days, Europe reminds me of an old woman who, with shaking hands, frantically hides her last pieces of jewelry when she notices a robber breaking into a neighbor's house.

Appeasement? Europe, thy name is Cowardice.

I post this for interest of discussion, not to express my own personal opinion.

Zardon

there are so many flaws in the article im not really going to get into it. interesting reading though - im sure the americans on the forum will love it.

Necrosis

Funny thing about this article is the person I received it from isn't from America.

Zardon

Neither is the person who wrote it, however that is a moot point, quite a bit of commentary while being well written is inaccurate.

Necrosis

I only stated the origin of the person who sent it to me in response to your comment "the Americans on the forum will love it". Personally for me it's rather amazing not to see something come out of Europe that isn't entirely negative. In reference to America it carefully says what Bush is doing, but doesn't acknowledge or analyze legitimacy of his actions. I'm trying to find out more about the article. The problem with the article is what it's actually talking about the war on terrorisim, or the war in Iraq?

Falstaff

I have heard it all before...hoooo hummmm...where is GOG when you need him...LOL

__________________

gashman

I agree, this article has many flaws in it and merely demonstrates a poor knowledge of world history. It completely overlooks the horrifying human and economic costs of the first world war that destroyed europes great empires and left millions dead. It overlooks americas reluctance to stop hitler until THREE YEARS after britain/france/poland/holland/norway etc etc went to war to stop hitler. It overuses appeasement as the driving force when it was in fact not, and it misses out the point that the countries of europe have fought enough wars to know what they are talking about. And may I remind the writer of the original article, but Europe in the case of hitler and kosovo was following the protocols for international conference laid down by america in the league of nations (founded on wilsons 14 points) and the united nations (founded largely by america post ww2) precisely to encourage diplomacy and avoid military action.

If you replace the word "muslim" with "jew" this article could have been written in 1933. And given it is coming from a german, whose country lest we forget, brought the world NAZISM and jew killings in the millions, I think it is rather rich to acuse the rest of europe of cowardice. I would expect the CEO of a publishing company to have better thought out arguments than this.

Zardon

Im not quite sure why you are getting so defensive, I was not criticizing you for posting it and I was aware you didnt write it. My statement "that the americians on the forum will love it" was not meant as an insult nor to categorize every americian into one group but to merely state that I feel these kind of editorials are meant to reach a certain side of the american public. Im not quite sure how you feel its amazing "not to see something coming out of europe that isnt entirely negative" when in fact if you believe in this article or are in some way feeling it is correct then you should know the United Kingdom government has been extremely supportive of the current american regime and president. You are aware the united kingdom is part of europe right? I sometimes feel that some people in the USA who dont travel at all feel that europe is france.

With regards to Hitler, if it wasnt for the united kingdom world history right now would be vastly different. Sure the americans saved the day but they were late into the battle.

HawK

Think this article falls in the same category as kids pointing to a kid who is different and shout "oh look what a geek"
It is all fine when looking at the world and proclaiming your view from your Ivory tower and point at what is wrong,
I suggest to Mathias Dvpfner he'd climb down for once, and see what every day life entails...
Europe is tired, tired of endless threads like 40 years of being wedged between 2 superpowers
and knowing you'll be the first who's getting the bigbang first...

Tired of hearing other country's say how we should live our lifes and what is best for us..

Tired of Country's who invades other country's for being a thread to "the free world"
then leaving that same country in a state of chaos, and to where do the victims/refugees fled to ? yes Europe

Tired of Politicians who swear it will all get better after they are being voted for office,
sure it will be better; for them..

but in 10 years the polar icecaps will melt, thanks to the western world and their Cowardly Politicians being scared to do something about it
..and then, to whom can the average Joe turn to??? no one but his own ability to stay alive..
Bah

Asmoday

A bit Off topic....

Sometimes it feels like Americans(not all, i'm sure it's a minority even..) believes that Europe is a Country of it's own. When in fact there is 46 different countries, and a few dependencies, territories and regions, that resides on the "continent" Europe.

__________________

El Kapitano

.....With a multitude of languages and mindsets, most of the members states of which cannot even stomach their neighbours. Kinda different from the us of a eh?

Vasot

Germans ARE NOT COWARDS (The hitler days are over)
They have become a country that prefer diplomacy and a peacefull solution to matters


USA are just Warlovers with the word "Freedom" for the excuse of their actions
They do not respect anything and neither ask other opinions
They just act according "what is good for them"

Yes as someone said above
Europe (the majority of european countries) is very tired from Usa agressive Bush sh*t choices

I hope USA people got some sense next time before they vote for a president....

kelticknight

agree witn zardon,it very flawed.europe has had enough wars and battles over 200 years.there seems always to be another battle or war around the corner,when one isfinished and another starts.europeans are tired.maybe that why we had mixed views about iraq and other reasons.l come from a country that has terrorisim with us for decades and last few years,have peace,

gashman

here here! Being english i also know of the "struggle" and what living with terrorism really is. Not this "credible threat" crap but people in your own country and even home town being blown up just for going to work. I'm sorry but the way they bandy the word "terrorism" and "al qaeda" completely misses the point. Those who have lived in britain/ireland really know what terrorism is, and this new "al-qaeda" stuff seems largely to be hot air, given the uk/ireland in the last few decades had bombs going of almost on a daily basis (and that by the way american tourists, is why you NEVER see any rubbish bins in london).

kelticknight

l live in ireland, mate and l know more than you think,l was in the ARMY OK

kelticknight

SORRY about that gashman,but its a bit too close a topic for me,as l have lost friends and mates that had nothing to do with it ,wrong place,wrong time.

Vasot

Europe is Cowardice ??

What about
USA selfish Warlovers of Peace (now thats sounds ironic )

They surely know what "Freedom" means from the rest of Europeans

What's next from IRAK, IRAN ???
And next after that??

Zardon

well said man, well said. when you have lived with terrorism all your life and the fact this all "seems new" to some people, it can tend to leave a bitter taste in your mouth, especially as our own government are intentionally ignoring the problems at home and our own deaths.

kelticknight

agree

kelticknight

have to go and watch a rugby match in 6 nations
cheers

HawK

You know, about Europeans being to tolerate, and indecisive,
must be because the only time *Holland being the last who got fed up,
with these extremists* we exiled a group of religous extremists in the 1500th century , and we still regret that, and promised ourself never to do that again...
because we could not foresee what we had done
we even gave them a ship as long as they would vanish... the Mayflower

Mr. Bush; that's a joke, a gag, i'd say its a funny one, not ment to harm anyone...
(cowardly europeen just making sure he won't bomb my country for saying that )

GOG

I was about to write exactly the same. It also seems very strange that this was written by a German, though Germany is not allowed to do anything with an army.

I wonder how the rest of the world would react if Germany decided to do a full blown invasion of former Yugoslavia to disarm the war criminals.

pr0digal jenius

I personally wouldn't have a problem with it at all, my COUNTRY however(the big bad US of A), wouldn't take to kindly to it, I don't think

Necrosis

I'm not getting defensive about it, and never said that I agreed with the article either. Now it's sorta funny because in debates you often bait people. In which this editorial was great for doing; I am also trying to find the original source. Yes, I am very well aware the UK is a part of Europe. In regards to how much I travel it doesn't limit my scope on a country, nor does it say if someone has been here they that have the "pulse" on everyone in this country. You never make assumptions about a person unless you have enough information to back-up your judgement.

Now here is what I believe.

America should leave Iraq soon. We did what we came there to do, and now it's up to those people to decide/defend if they want democracy. You can't lead a horse to water, and make it drink. The same thing applies here I believe.

To break the article down into a question, then a statement first.

What the heck is it in reference to? I almost feel like part of it is missing, or would like to know what exactly it's in response to?

I personally feel many European countries have stepped up their own efforts to weed out terrorists. However, there is a limited about of places you can send troops to do this.

The response to this piece hasn't brought on quite the "out lash" like I thought it would. However, so far the only "chest-beaters" I've seen reply to this article is "some" of the folks who love to rip America for any little thing.

It's a way of putting other people from other countries in two different groups.

1. Those who do not agree with America's latest policies.

2. Those who have always hated America, and it's recent policies give them fuel for their belief.

What I'm seeing here is folks from other countries disagreeing with it, but also who aren't stepping on the soap box to say how bad America is. However, you also see the posts of those who right away do their typical rhetoric about America too.

Zardon

Having lived in america for a while I feel I am quite within my grounds to make a generalisation to a point, which I did, I was not referring to you in particular although I will say some of your statements in this thread and the fact you posted it, abeit under the loosely veiled grounds of getting a debate going seem to make me feel (perhaps wrongly so) that you find the editorial somewhat uplifting, especially as you said it was the "amazing to read something non negative coming out of europe". That is your view and you are more than welcome to be entitled to it, however as a european who has lived and travelled all over the world in his life, I find its quite an embarassingly uneducated editorial tainted with rose coloured glasses regarding america and his seemingly unwavering disregard for anything non aggressive.

gashman

Hey no worries man, it's a touchy subject for a lot of people.

pr0digal jenius

I find that the rose colored glasses everyone looks through are all made in China, and that alone should be enough to make people think twice about beliving just how much good all this "gambling with the US dollar/national debt" really is

Falstaff

As an American from the greatest country on the face of the planet I must give credit where credit is due, America would not be here except for the dreams of all the people that came to these shores expecting and hoping to pursue their dreams, raise their children, and find happiness. Without the Irish, the English, the Scottish, Spanish, German, Norwegian, Danish, Swedish, Africans, Asians, Finns, and our own aboriginal tribes that we sought to destroy only a hundred years ago, we would not have an America.......
America is the world....and the world is America....seperate America from the world and it would not survive as we know it...
Deny the heritage of all of us...myself, a mixture of native american, african american, norwegian, and german...and yes, Frensh, we and I would not have a heritage...
The greatest thing about America is.....
You pledge allegiance, you promise to uphold laws...and you serve and protect those that live in our domain, our world as it were and you can be an American.
I consider all of you, whether you live here or not.....
Honorary Americans...
from the greatest country on the face of the planet...
my own blessing to you
may you all someday learn what it is to be American....
and if not, know this...
all members of DH...
are my honorary Americans.....
Viva La America!!!!!

__________________

raid517

That is just classic German Neo Nazi (as in skinhead) propaganda mate. You can pick leaflets up full of that crap at most skinhead rallies and festivals - all nicely stamped with swastikas and SS logos on the front. Interesting you should choose it as a source though.

And I think you will find that your history is a little distorted. Chamberlain did try to avert war - because really war should never be the first option - and the UK just wasn't ready for a war at that time. Call it a play for time. But the vast majority of the atrocities that occurred happened not before the war, but a long time after the war had started (the death camps didn't really get in to full swing until 1943).

Indeed it could be argued that we saved millions of more lives by going to war when we did - because when we did go to war we fought like lions. So leave the Brits out of this mate. We have always been fighters. Every major global conflict there has been (bar I think Vietnam) we have had a hand in. We have done more than our share.

You know I often wish you guys would get over your superiority complex. Besides it being complete BS - it is what make people not like you very much.

Anyway what is wrong with having official Muslim holidays? We have official Christian and Jewish ones - and probably holidays for most other religions too, so why not Muslims? Unless you have something against Muslims in general?

GJ

Necrosis

I remembered you did live in America for awhile, but it doesn't give you a complete view of the population as a whole. For matter of me posting this article is simply no different than other's posting similar propaganda. However, I haven't state that I whole heartily agree with it's content either. I simply said that it was amazing to read some thing non-negative, not some thing of fact. As a matter of fact an earlier comment about where this came from made me give it a closer look.

I also have no idea who "raid" is talking to here either.

"Kill The Messenger".