Do you believe in......

TJ- · Feb 21, 2005, 03:39 AM

Do you believe in God, Satan, Heaven, Hell......

simple question....

Asmoday · Feb 21, 2005, 03:56 AM

For me that is a hard question, i don't beleive in God in the meaning that i go to church and stuff. But i have however a feeling that there is something watching over us, I can't say that it is "God" in the way the bible tells us.
But if the biblical God excists, than Satan and hell sure is real too. By the way the world looks these days....why wouldn't Satan exsist?

pr0digal jenius · Feb 21, 2005, 04:42 AM

I voted yes, although i have some rather "different" takes on heaven/hell then most.

Judas · Feb 21, 2005, 05:52 AM

beleive in........ are 2 very strong words when combined....

Falstaff · Feb 21, 2005, 06:24 AM

not a simple question, this should be moved to the debate forum...lol

Son_of_Thunder · Feb 21, 2005, 06:31 AM

i believe. and unlike the other people who have said yes, i do believe it in the christian sense. do i sin? yes. do i pray as much as i should? nope. do i go to church? ...hmm...not often, but still, i have faith in the bible and what it teaches.

TJ- · Feb 21, 2005, 07:37 AM

pretty even so far...

My theroy is that life a long time a go was created just like mould or bacteria can create itself now. Once we were bacteria or something then evolved into something greater.

If there is a god or heaven/hell for humans then is there one for dinosaurs, animals,fish,birds,ants etc. Simply it is not scientificly possible for there to be a heaven/hell. Thus no god/satan to live in thin air.

Believing in god has been around for as long as there has been humans, and since then there has been many gods spawned form diffenent religions and beliefs. I think that the "existince" of such being is just to put fear into people and make them follow the law. You kill you goto hell, your break the ten commandments you goto hell. Its all BS.

GutterPunk · Feb 21, 2005, 07:40 AM

Battleaxe, if you knew the Bible you'd understand something...

All sins are equal, but God sent Jesus to earth to forgive us for our sins. You can steal, your still on the same level of sin as murder. you go to hell if you don't have faith in Jesus Christ, God, our Father. We reach him through prayer and worship.

Captn · Feb 21, 2005, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Son_of_Thunder

i believe. and unlike the other people who have said yes, i do believe it in the christian sense. do i sin? yes. do i pray as much as i should? nope. do i go to church? ...hmm...not often, but still, i have faith in the bible and what it teaches.

This sounds like me

Callandor · Feb 21, 2005, 07:49 AM

I believe in God, but lately I've felt my fait beginning to waver....

TJ- · Feb 21, 2005, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GutterPunk

Battleaxe, if you knew the Bible you'd understand something...

All sins are equal, but God sent Jesus to earth to forgive us for our sins. You can steal, your still on the same level of sin as murder. you go to hell if you don't have faith in Jesus Christ, God, our Father. We reach him through prayer and worship.

well i guess im going to hell then... looking foward to meeting the big man himself...

and if im the nicest, most honest, non sinner there is but dont believe in god, am i still going to hell. What if i believe in another god and i goto his heaven, am i still going to jesus fathers (gods) hell. It doesnt make sence. There is to many gods to say your going to hell/heaven,,, which hell/heaven. And what about Allah. Suposodly if you kill the infidel, you goto heaven and get 77 virgins. So if i believe in Allah and i kill an american and im suddenly going to goto heaven...

Its all a fallacy...

fOOkHA · Feb 21, 2005, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battleaxe187

well i guess im going to hell then... looking foward to meeting the big man himself...

and if im the nicest, most honest, non sinner there is but dont believe in god, am i still going to hell. What if i believe in another god and i goto his heaven, am i still going to jesus fathers (gods) hell. It doesnt make sence. There is to many gods to say your going to hell/heaven,,, which hell/heaven. And what about Allah. Suposodly if you kill the infidel, you goto heaven and get 77 virgins. So if i believe in Allah and i kill an american and im suddenly going to goto heaven...

Its all a fallacy...

that is indeed true ... it really depends on which religion you follow or if you follow any at all.
you can't say to someone that does not follow the catholic religion that they are goin to hell ...

Sargentwhitey · Feb 21, 2005, 08:30 AM

Meh, I just loosely believe in god... and satan.. heaven and hell. It's just something to make me feel better about the afterlife, and something to give me some security in life when there is no more.

CDsDontBurn · Feb 21, 2005, 09:11 AM

As far as religion goes, i grew up Catholic, was baptised, and completed my 1st communion. I also went to church quite often, and despite all of that, i myself am not religious at all. I do not believe in god anymore, nor heaven and hell. I think that in order to believe in heaven, that there must also be a hell. And same goes for God and Satan. I believe that when we die, we are dead and that's what there is to it. We don't go to heaven nor hell, we are either burried 6ft under the earth, or creamated. If anything happens for any reason, it doesn't happen because "God made it happen like that," like many religious people say; i say it happens because it was a coincidence.

i do believe that there is life outside our planet, doesn't matter if it's bacteria, or some alien race that is 10,000yrs. ahead of us in technology. If earth is the only planet capable of having life in our very own galaxy, then that's an awful waste of space.

I also believe that there are other dimensions besides just us. Like the San Francisco Golden Gate Bridge to us is painted copper red, in some other dimension, it could be painted blue or something. Or that instead of me typing this right now, in some other dimension, i'm actually sitting in a jail cell, or on a vacation somewhere.

Son_of_Thunder · Feb 21, 2005, 10:08 AM

in all honesty i don't see how this thread can turn into anything but a flaming warzone. already it's starting w/ battle insulting other people's beliefs.

to answer battle's questions though, as a christian: if you are the most perfect non-sinning individual out there, yet you're not a christian, i believe that you are going to hell. if you serve Allah, and die, as a christian i do not believe you would go to heaven. if you are a jew and die...well, that one i don't know. there are some lines in the bible that can be understood as saying "jews will get a second chance" ...but i'm not sure.

the ten commandments aren't there so much as strict rules, but as basic guidelines for living. if we break them, we're breaking a guideline that God set for us, but as before mentioned, through Jesus all sins are equal, and as a christian, sins are instantly forgiven.

anyways, the dinosaur comment was nice, i do not believe that there is a heaven for dinosaurs. i believe that if there are animals in heaven then yes, dinosaurs will be there. if there is intellegent life on other planets, a few things could happen with them.

1. god made a similar covenant with them as he did w/ the israelites, but unlike the israelites they didn't screw up.

2. they screwed up and he had to send a version of his son to they're planet to try to save them.

3. they all rejected him and he "smote" them.

md5 · Feb 21, 2005, 12:27 PM

This is a very interesting thread. Everyone is entitled to have his/her own opinion, but please guys, keep this civilized. Don't bash others for their beliefs, no matter what they are

As for me, my belief is what Asmoday described. I believe there's something watching us up there. I believe in God and I don't have a problem with any religion, as long as they're not trying to shove their beliefs down my throat

Plus, you can't picture God like he's living in an apartment in the sky, like battleaxe said. There are many things we don't understand via science, and there are a lot of things we didn't know which are discovered every day. I believe that God is all around us, I just don't think that living beings were created all of a sudden because of an accident

Religion and science are answering different things: science is trying to answer HOW things are done, and religion WHY.

germanjulian · Feb 21, 2005, 12:31 PM

on topic by Douglas Adams:
http://www.toomuchsexy.org/adams/

good read

Dom · Feb 21, 2005, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battleaxe187

And what about Allah. Suposodly if you kill the infidel, you goto heaven and get 77 virgins. So if i believe in Allah and i kill an american and im suddenly going to goto heaven...

Its all a fallacy...

That's untrue.

YAYitsAndrew · Feb 21, 2005, 04:02 PM

I went to catholic school for 13 years so I'm well informed on my choices. I don't believe in any higher beings. To me, they were just what ancient people used to give an answer to something they didn't technologically have a means of answering. Religion's purpose today isn't to answer unanswered questions (you just sound stupid if you do that) but more for comforting a person. It's nice to have someone who can't talk back (god) for you to heft all your blame and misery onto. And it's easier to accomplish some tasks if you psychologically believe that there's always someone there to help you. Take my word that life is significantly harder when you believe that you're the only person who can truly help you. I did the god thing for a good 15 years.

I have no problem with people who believe in something and I would never try to force my beliefs on anyone, even though they're often quick to try and force their beliefs on me. The only people I have a problem with are the ones who march into a building every sunday, recite memorized words without even thinking about what they're saying, and then put money into a basket. You can't draw spirituality from acting like a zombie.

Sandok · Feb 21, 2005, 04:51 PM

I voted no... I mean, come on! In our age of modern science, we have still not discovered such things...

Anyways, if they do exist, anybody goin to hell will meet me cuz my real name backwards in my mothertongue means DEVIL

MUHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Captn · Feb 21, 2005, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDsDontBurn

I also believe that there are other dimensions besides just us. Like the San Francisco Golden Gate Bridge to us is painted copper red, in some other dimension, it could be painted blue or something. Or that instead of me typing this right now, in some other dimension, i'm actually sitting in a jail cell, or on a vacation somewhere.

w0w!

Son_of_Thunder · Feb 21, 2005, 07:24 PM

it's strange, i know dozens of people who were raised in catholic schools that as soon as they got out they gave up on religion. sounds like the catholics are doing something wrong to me :P

i went to a christian school, but i requested to go there. i wanted to learn more about God, and i did.

as for the christian = zombie thing, i don't believe that. look at me, i am a christian, yet i'm the blacksheep of my christian family. my grandparents don't want me in their will because i don't go to church 2 times a week, and my dad says that i'm a failure and he's ashamed to be my father. then there's my sister, who just got done w/ a big divorce and she's currently living w/ her boyfriend, my mom who left my dad and had been shunned by his family. my soon to be stepdad who is just now discovering his faith, and it's those three people who are kindest to me and in my opinion the best christians.

studbagel9 · Feb 21, 2005, 07:42 PM

I voted yes, I'm a practicing Catholic. People have said that there are scientific means to prove all natural phenomenon that have been observered, but that's simply not true. No scientist has ever been able to prove conclusively that life was created from nonlife simply by a random set of events. It's a biological theory, something like "spontaneous generation" or something like that, and it's been proven basically to be impossible. Anyway, Battleaxe was talking about how there is no way that Heaven and Hell exist. How is it possible to say something like that? M-Theory states that there are dozens of dimensions in the metaverse, though there's no way to prove that currently, is it not possible there may be something we describe as Heaven or Hell in another dimension? I mean, even this universe is so massive there's no way for us to even begin to postulate that a place like heaven or hell couldn't exist here, at least not yet. Also, someone said that there were so many gods throughout history and how can we possibly say which is right. Well, three of the major religions all have basis in the life of Abraham, who had according to Jews and Christians had one son, Isaac, and according to Muslims had two, Isaac who was born of Abrahams wife, and another son who was born out of wedlock from a slave girl. As Isaac is a major player in Judaism and Christianity, who differ in there beliefs about the messiah, just so is Abraham's other son a major player in Islam. So they all stem from the same place, it's just different names for the same sort of theme. Even religions like Hindu which seem to have nothing to do with western and middle eastern religions has a polymorphic monotheistic religion. So i personally believe that it's all the same God, people just have put a different spin on things to help suit their cultures/lifestyles. Though in the end most religions on Earth who worship a benevolent God are based on fundamental tenants of respect for life, humbleness toward a deity, and also a respect for people of other religions, it's the people who mess things up and cause crusades and jihads. But we could sit here and argue one way or the other and have theological debates that could tear friendships apart, in the end we won't change eachother. I respect everyones beliefs, unless that persons beliefs cause them to hurt me or anyone for that matter, and then I get upset, even if those people belong to my religion. For example, radical right wing christian conservatives who gay bash and and the like. So in the end, I say whatevah, nobody's even going to read this rant anyway ;p.

Captn · Feb 21, 2005, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by studbagel9

I voted yes, I'm a practicing Catholic. People have said that there are scientific means to prove all natural phenomenon that have been observered, but that's simply not true. No scientist has ever been able to prove conclusively that life was created from nonlife simply by a random set of events. It's a biological theory, something like "spontaneous generation" or something like that, and it's been proven basically to be impossible. Anyway, Battleaxe was talking about how there is no way that Heaven and Hell exist. How is it possible to say something like that? M-Theory states that there are dozens of dimensions in the metaverse, though there's no way to prove that currently, is it not possible there may be something we describe as Heaven or Hell in another dimension? I mean, even this universe is so massive there's no way for us to even begin to postulate that a place like heaven or hell couldn't exist here, at least not yet. Also, someone said that there were so many gods throughout history and how can we possibly say which is right. Well, three of the major religions all have basis in the life of Abraham, who had according to Jews and Christians had one son, Isaac, and according to Muslims had two, Isaac who was born of Abrahams wife, and another son who was born out of wedlock from a slave girl. As Isaac is a major player in Judaism and Christianity, who differ in there beliefs about the messiah, just so is Abraham's other son a major player in Islam. So they all stem from the same place, it's just different names for the same sort of theme. Even religions like Hindu which seem to have nothing to do with western and middle eastern religions has a polymorphic monotheistic religion. So i personally believe that it's all the same God, people just have put a different spin on things to help suit their cultures/lifestyles. Though in the end most religions on Earth who worship a benevolent God are based on fundamental tenants of respect for life, humbleness toward a deity, and also a respect for people of other religions, it's the people who mess things up and cause crusades and jihads. But we could sit here and argue one way or the other and have theological debates that could tear friendships apart, in the end we won't change eachother. I respect everyones beliefs, unless that persons beliefs cause them to hurt me or anyone for that matter, and then I get upset, even if those people belong to my religion. For example, radical right wing christian conservatives who gay bash and and the like. So in the end, I say whatevah, nobody's even going to read this rant anyway ;p.

I have to say I did read your rant, all I can say is you typed out pretty much what I was gonig to, but was to lazy to do...lol Amen!

Son_of_Thunder · Feb 21, 2005, 08:00 PM

but are you also saying that you don't believe in Abraham's other son? it's in genesis that he had another son but he disowned him. i'm nearly certain his name was ishmael, but i'm in a rush so i can't look it up right now. maybe when i get home

Razgriz · Feb 21, 2005, 08:07 PM

my grandfather is a preacher and had 8 children, being my aunts,uncles, and mother. We are a big religious family, in the sense that its always been in our history. Me personally am loosly religious. I believe, and i think thats all i need to do is believe. I know many life lessons, and what is good/wrong in this world because i was brought up that way.

Have any of you sat down and thought about what happens when you die? like, you're dead, and thats it? it cant be ya know....theres gotta be something else.

TJ- · Feb 21, 2005, 08:59 PM

studbagel9 · Feb 21, 2005, 09:24 PM

son of thunder, yeah he did have other sons but they are of no import to at least catholics. Isaac was the favorite because he was the first born. Kind of like my older brother, heh.

Judas · Feb 21, 2005, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by md5

I just don't think that living beings were created all of a sudden because of an accident.

i prefer to call it an intended "accident"

YAYitsAndrew · Feb 21, 2005, 10:17 PM

The zombie thing was my view of a catholic church, not a christian one.

View Poll Results: Do you believe in........
Yes	24	46.15%
No	28	53.85%
Voters: 52. This poll is closed

Feb 21, 2005, 03:39 AM	#1
TJ- DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Infinity Posts: 3,679 Rep Power: 0	Do you believe in...... Do you believe in God, Satan, Heaven, Hell...... simple question.... __________________ new sig comming soon

Feb 21, 2005, 03:56 AM	#2
Asmoday Demonic Join Date: May 2002 Location: In the cold, dark north... Posts: 5,198 Rep Power: 92 System Specs	For me that is a hard question, i don't beleive in God in the meaning that i go to church and stuff. But i have however a feeling that there is something watching over us, I can't say that it is "God" in the way the bible tells us. But if the biblical God excists, than Satan and hell sure is real too. By the way the world looks these days....why wouldn't Satan exsist? __________________ How You can help Hardwareheaven by using Digg

Feb 21, 2005, 06:24 AM	#5
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	not a simple question, this should be moved to the debate forum...lol __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Feb 21, 2005, 06:31 AM	#6
Son_of_Thunder HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Kalamazoo, MI Posts: 1,441 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	i believe. and unlike the other people who have said yes, i do believe it in the christian sense. do i sin? yes. do i pray as much as i should? nope. do i go to church? ...hmm...not often, but still, i have faith in the bible and what it teaches. __________________

Feb 21, 2005, 04:42 AM	#3
pr0digal jenius Delete Me Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 14,648 Rep Power: 0	I voted yes, although i have some rather "different" takes on heaven/hell then most.

Feb 21, 2005, 07:37 AM	Thread Starter #7
TJ- DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Infinity Posts: 3,679 Rep Power: 0	pretty even so far... My theroy is that life a long time a go was created just like mould or bacteria can create itself now. Once we were bacteria or something then evolved into something greater. If there is a god or heaven/hell for humans then is there one for dinosaurs, animals,fish,birds,ants etc. Simply it is not scientificly possible for there to be a heaven/hell. Thus no god/satan to live in thin air. Believing in god has been around for as long as there has been humans, and since then there has been many gods spawned form diffenent religions and beliefs. I think that the "existince" of such being is just to put fear into people and make them follow the law. You kill you goto hell, your break the ten commandments you goto hell. Its all BS. __________________ new sig comming soon

Feb 21, 2005, 07:40 AM	#8
GutterPunk I = Greatest Dood Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nebraska Posts: 5,949 Rep Power: 71	Battleaxe, if you knew the Bible you'd understand something... All sins are equal, but God sent Jesus to earth to forgive us for our sins. You can steal, your still on the same level of sin as murder. you go to hell if you don't have faith in Jesus Christ, God, our Father. We reach him through prayer and worship. __________________ Rock On \m/ Thank you Mousey for the Sig! --------------- Intel Core2Duo E6660 (3.4GHZ) ~ Tuniq Tower 120 ~ Enermax Galaxy 1000W ~ Corsair Dominator @ 1090MHZ 5-5-5-15 (OCZ XTC Modded Cooler)~ EVGA 8800GTX W/ HR-03 Plus 120MM ~ Asus DVD-RW LiteScribe ~ LG DVD-RW ~ Corsair Voyager 2GB ReadyBoost Drive ~ Vantec Nexus Fan Controller ~ ThermalTake Armor 25CM fan ~ Personal Finance Blog: Dent Your Debt

Feb 21, 2005, 07:49 AM	#10
Callandor Forged on Dragonmount Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 7,241 Rep Power: 304 System Specs	I believe in God, but lately I've felt my fait beginning to waver.... __________________

Feb 21, 2005, 08:30 AM	#13
Sargentwhitey Has a JOB.. Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 1,473 Rep Power: 0	Meh, I just loosely believe in god... and satan.. heaven and hell. It's just something to make me feel better about the afterlife, and something to give me some security in life when there is no more. __________________ Mobile:Intel Celeron M 1.5GHz, 40GB WD, 1GB PC24000, Intel Mediocre Graphics 2, SB Audigy 2 Notebook

Feb 21, 2005, 09:11 AM	#14
CDsDontBurn Lurking DriverHeaven Join Date: May 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 22,790 Rep Power: 235 System Specs	As far as religion goes, i grew up Catholic, was baptised, and completed my 1st communion. I also went to church quite often, and despite all of that, i myself am not religious at all. I do not believe in god anymore, nor heaven and hell. I think that in order to believe in heaven, that there must also be a hell. And same goes for God and Satan. I believe that when we die, we are dead and that's what there is to it. We don't go to heaven nor hell, we are either burried 6ft under the earth, or creamated. If anything happens for any reason, it doesn't happen because "God made it happen like that," like many religious people say; i say it happens because it was a coincidence. i do believe that there is life outside our planet, doesn't matter if it's bacteria, or some alien race that is 10,000yrs. ahead of us in technology. If earth is the only planet capable of having life in our very own galaxy, then that's an awful waste of space. I also believe that there are other dimensions besides just us. Like the San Francisco Golden Gate Bridge to us is painted copper red, in some other dimension, it could be painted blue or something. Or that instead of me typing this right now, in some other dimension, i'm actually sitting in a jail cell, or on a vacation somewhere. __________________ Her First Day \| A year later

Feb 21, 2005, 10:08 AM	#15
Son_of_Thunder HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Kalamazoo, MI Posts: 1,441 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	in all honesty i don't see how this thread can turn into anything but a flaming warzone. already it's starting w/ battle insulting other people's beliefs. to answer battle's questions though, as a christian: if you are the most perfect non-sinning individual out there, yet you're not a christian, i believe that you are going to hell. if you serve Allah, and die, as a christian i do not believe you would go to heaven. if you are a jew and die...well, that one i don't know. there are some lines in the bible that can be understood as saying "jews will get a second chance" ...but i'm not sure. the ten commandments aren't there so much as strict rules, but as basic guidelines for living. if we break them, we're breaking a guideline that God set for us, but as before mentioned, through Jesus all sins are equal, and as a christian, sins are instantly forgiven. anyways, the dinosaur comment was nice, i do not believe that there is a heaven for dinosaurs. i believe that if there are animals in heaven then yes, dinosaurs will be there. if there is intellegent life on other planets, a few things could happen with them. 1. god made a similar covenant with them as he did w/ the israelites, but unlike the israelites they didn't screw up. 2. they screwed up and he had to send a version of his son to they're planet to try to save them. 3. they all rejected him and he "smote" them. __________________

Feb 21, 2005, 12:27 PM	#16
md5 DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Inside DriverHeaven Posts: 856 Rep Power: 0	This is a very interesting thread. Everyone is entitled to have his/her own opinion, but please guys, keep this civilized. Don't bash others for their beliefs, no matter what they are As for me, my belief is what Asmoday described. I believe there's something watching us up there. I believe in God and I don't have a problem with any religion, as long as they're not trying to shove their beliefs down my throat Plus, you can't picture God like he's living in an apartment in the sky, like battleaxe said. There are many things we don't understand via science, and there are a lot of things we didn't know which are discovered every day. I believe that God is all around us, I just don't think that living beings were created all of a sudden because of an accident Religion and science are answering different things: science is trying to answer HOW things are done, and religion WHY. __________________

Feb 21, 2005, 12:31 PM	#17
germanjulian Back in London Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: London Posts: 1,797 Rep Power: 0	on topic by Douglas Adams: http://www.toomuchsexy.org/adams/ good read __________________ /\|\ Asus P5W DH Deluxe, Intel C2D E6600, 2GB Corsair XMS2-6400C4 DDR2, E-VGA GeForce 7800 GT, Creative X-Fi Extreme Music, 500GB Seagate 7200.10 SATA, Lian Li PC-V1100 Aluminum Case Black, etc. http://germanjulian.com /\|\

Feb 21, 2005, 04:02 PM	#19
YAYitsAndrew Anti-Piracy Poster Boy Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 2,605 Rep Power: 79 System Specs	I went to catholic school for 13 years so I'm well informed on my choices. I don't believe in any higher beings. To me, they were just what ancient people used to give an answer to something they didn't technologically have a means of answering. Religion's purpose today isn't to answer unanswered questions (you just sound stupid if you do that) but more for comforting a person. It's nice to have someone who can't talk back (god) for you to heft all your blame and misery onto. And it's easier to accomplish some tasks if you psychologically believe that there's always someone there to help you. Take my word that life is significantly harder when you believe that you're the only person who can truly help you. I did the god thing for a good 15 years. I have no problem with people who believe in something and I would never try to force my beliefs on anyone, even though they're often quick to try and force their beliefs on me. The only people I have a problem with are the ones who march into a building every sunday, recite memorized words without even thinking about what they're saying, and then put money into a basket. You can't draw spirituality from acting like a zombie. __________________ "It is because the resistance to paying for copyrighted material, although often characterized as arising from a supposed technical burden or principled concern for the public interest, arises rather from exactly the same segment of the brain that is dominant in shoplifters." - Mark Helprin, Digital Barbarism In other words, it's never okay to steal even if you think you have a good reason! www.yayitsandrew.com

Feb 21, 2005, 04:51 PM	#20
Sandok DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 9,472 Rep Power: 0	I voted no... I mean, come on! In our age of modern science, we have still not discovered such things... Anyways, if they do exist, anybody goin to hell will meet me cuz my real name backwards in my mothertongue means DEVIL MUHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Feb 21, 2005, 07:24 PM	#22
Son_of_Thunder HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Kalamazoo, MI Posts: 1,441 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	it's strange, i know dozens of people who were raised in catholic schools that as soon as they got out they gave up on religion. sounds like the catholics are doing something wrong to me :P i went to a christian school, but i requested to go there. i wanted to learn more about God, and i did. as for the christian = zombie thing, i don't believe that. look at me, i am a christian, yet i'm the blacksheep of my christian family. my grandparents don't want me in their will because i don't go to church 2 times a week, and my dad says that i'm a failure and he's ashamed to be my father. then there's my sister, who just got done w/ a big divorce and she's currently living w/ her boyfriend, my mom who left my dad and had been shunned by his family. my soon to be stepdad who is just now discovering his faith, and it's those three people who are kindest to me and in my opinion the best christians. __________________

Feb 21, 2005, 07:42 PM	#23
studbagel9 Rolling the Hard Six Join Date: May 2003 Location: Lock Haven, PA Posts: 767 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	I voted yes, I'm a practicing Catholic. People have said that there are scientific means to prove all natural phenomenon that have been observered, but that's simply not true. No scientist has ever been able to prove conclusively that life was created from nonlife simply by a random set of events. It's a biological theory, something like "spontaneous generation" or something like that, and it's been proven basically to be impossible. Anyway, Battleaxe was talking about how there is no way that Heaven and Hell exist. How is it possible to say something like that? M-Theory states that there are dozens of dimensions in the metaverse, though there's no way to prove that currently, is it not possible there may be something we describe as Heaven or Hell in another dimension? I mean, even this universe is so massive there's no way for us to even begin to postulate that a place like heaven or hell couldn't exist here, at least not yet. Also, someone said that there were so many gods throughout history and how can we possibly say which is right. Well, three of the major religions all have basis in the life of Abraham, who had according to Jews and Christians had one son, Isaac, and according to Muslims had two, Isaac who was born of Abrahams wife, and another son who was born out of wedlock from a slave girl. As Isaac is a major player in Judaism and Christianity, who differ in there beliefs about the messiah, just so is Abraham's other son a major player in Islam. So they all stem from the same place, it's just different names for the same sort of theme. Even religions like Hindu which seem to have nothing to do with western and middle eastern religions has a polymorphic monotheistic religion. So i personally believe that it's all the same God, people just have put a different spin on things to help suit their cultures/lifestyles. Though in the end most religions on Earth who worship a benevolent God are based on fundamental tenants of respect for life, humbleness toward a deity, and also a respect for people of other religions, it's the people who mess things up and cause crusades and jihads. But we could sit here and argue one way or the other and have theological debates that could tear friendships apart, in the end we won't change eachother. I respect everyones beliefs, unless that persons beliefs cause them to hurt me or anyone for that matter, and then I get upset, even if those people belong to my religion. For example, radical right wing christian conservatives who gay bash and and the like. So in the end, I say whatevah, nobody's even going to read this rant anyway ;p. __________________

Feb 21, 2005, 08:00 PM	#25
Son_of_Thunder HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Kalamazoo, MI Posts: 1,441 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	but are you also saying that you don't believe in Abraham's other son? it's in genesis that he had another son but he disowned him. i'm nearly certain his name was ishmael, but i'm in a rush so i can't look it up right now. maybe when i get home __________________

Feb 21, 2005, 08:07 PM	#26
Razgriz Intelligence? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: On the edge of insanity Posts: 1,183 Rep Power: 55	my grandfather is a preacher and had 8 children, being my aunts,uncles, and mother. We are a big religious family, in the sense that its always been in our history. Me personally am loosly religious. I believe, and i think thats all i need to do is believe. I know many life lessons, and what is good/wrong in this world because i was brought up that way. Have any of you sat down and thought about what happens when you die? like, you're dead, and thats it? it cant be ya know....theres gotta be something else.

Feb 21, 2005, 08:59 PM	Thread Starter #27
TJ- DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Infinity Posts: 3,679 Rep Power: 0	__________________ new sig comming soon

Feb 21, 2005, 09:24 PM	#28
studbagel9 Rolling the Hard Six Join Date: May 2003 Location: Lock Haven, PA Posts: 767 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	son of thunder, yeah he did have other sons but they are of no import to at least catholics. Isaac was the favorite because he was the first born. Kind of like my older brother, heh. __________________

Feb 21, 2005, 10:17 PM	#30
YAYitsAndrew Anti-Piracy Poster Boy Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 2,605 Rep Power: 79 System Specs	The zombie thing was my view of a catholic church, not a christian one. __________________ "It is because the resistance to paying for copyrighted material, although often characterized as arising from a supposed technical burden or principled concern for the public interest, arises rather from exactly the same segment of the brain that is dominant in shoplifters." - Mark Helprin, Digital Barbarism In other words, it's never okay to steal even if you think you have a good reason! www.yayitsandrew.com