America #1 ? not after reading this....

raid517 · Mar 8, 2005, 02:40 PM

I agree, I think this thread should either be closed or moved to the flame warzone. I don't particularly hate anyone - but I will hold my own when people attempt to put me or my country or the region I live in down. There are good things in America, just as there are good things in Europe, or in the rest of the world for that matter. It would make a change if even only sometimes we could focus on these.

GJ

wiskerbizkit · Mar 8, 2005, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raid517

Well maybe it's because you have your fingers in so many pies. Maybe it's because you have had such a big impact (and not always good) in the world over the last 60 years or so, maybe it's because, without knowing very much about the other parts of the world, you appear to feel only too ready to interfere in their affairs, or maybe it's because you claim to care about freedom, yet you have cozied up (and continue to do so) with some of the most brutal, murderous and barbaric dictators in history? Or maybe its because of your unfair trading practices that lock out any real competition and force small producers and countries around the world to accept your second class produce at grossly inflated prices? Why do people dislike your government? (I think it's unfair to say that they just dislike all Americans). Well now let me see... Yep, it's a mystery alright.

Well then why dont people just say suff like that then? why does it always have to be things about "america is 49th on literacy" and shit like that. That isnt constructive criticism thats trying to make individuals feel stupid.

About the other stuff, what would you have me do? move to another country? I was born in germany but raised here and im an american citizen. How would you like me, one single person, to change the world so E-people like me cos im american. the past is the past and we cant change it and if 90% of the world had the oppourtunity and the motivation america had they would be the same way.

Butting in. america is damned if they do and damned if they dont. If we do step in we get bitched at but if we dont and a tragedy happens then it gets blamed on us because we didnt step in.

Let another country be the #1 power in the world and the same things will happen to them.

All in all you would want me to write to you about how much i hate my country well, my friend im not going to do that. Id rather contribute a little and work the problems out other than bash them on a computer enthusiasts web site

Vikingod · Mar 8, 2005, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiskerbizkit

Well then why dont people just say suff like that then? why does it always have to be things about "america is 49th on literacy" and shit like that. That isnt constructive criticism thats trying to make individuals feel stupid.

About the other stuff, what would you have me do? move to another country? I was born in germany but raised here and im an american citizen. How would you like me, one single person, to change the world so E-people like me cos im american. the past is the past and we cant change it and if 90% of the world had the oppourtunity and the motivation america had they would be the same way.

Butting in. america is damned if they do and damned if they dont. If we do step in we get bitched at but if we dont and a tragedy happens then it gets blamed on us because we didnt step in.

Let another country be the #1 power in the world and the same things will happen to them.

All in all you would want me to write to you about how much i hate my country well, my friend im not going to do that. Id rather contribute a little and work the problems out other than bash them on a computer enthusiasts web site

well put. I say everyone get back to the site being about computers, not about this underinformed banter about world politics.

raid517 · Mar 8, 2005, 03:25 PM

Well this section is about politics.

Nevertheless I am willing to focus on the positive. I would be happy to draw up a list of the 50 Americans I admire most in the world, if you draw up a list of the 50 Europeans (or even just world figures in general - it doesn't have to be just Europe) that you admire. Can you do it? And I mean people you genuinely admire. For me it is relatively easy. How about you? Can you do 30?, 20? 10? So OK how about one? Do you think you can even manage one?

So OK in the entire history of the planet can you name one prominent world figure outside of America (without looking it up or thinking about it) that you can say you admire unreservedly? (Movie stars and rock stars are excluded). You see I think the problem is that a lot of you guys can't. Is that dumb? I don't know. Is it inconsiderate? I think almost certainly it is. Isn't it possible therefore that at least some of the flak that you guys get is sometimes in some ways deserved?

But hey I have a fairly long list of hero's - and the attitudes of a few uniformed people here are unlikely to change that in any way at all.

GJ

~~Turtle~~ · Mar 8, 2005, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koolaid

Damn bro your kinda harsh and its Inbred not Imbread... if your going to insult a person at least spell it right.

Dont matter, as long as he gets the message

I think we should move this thread to the Flame Warzone. (at first I thought this thread was in the War Zone, since its not lets move it there)

BWX · Mar 8, 2005, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fallang_jeff

where or where is all this going?....LOL

More America bashing on DH.. where else?

Vikingod · Mar 8, 2005, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raid517

Well this section is about politics.

Nevertheless I am willing to focus on the positive. I would be happy to draw up a list of the 50 Americans I admire most in the world, if you draw up a list of the 50 Europeans (or even just world figures in general - it doesn't have to be just Europe) that you admire. Can you do it? And I mean people you genuinely admire. For me it is relatively easy. How about you? Can you do 30?, 20? 10? So OK how about one? Do you think you can even manage one?

So OK in the entire history of the planet can you name one prominent world figure outside of America (without looking it up or thinking about it) that you can say you admire unreservedly? (Movie stars and rock stars are excluded). You see I think the problem is that a lot of you guys can't. Is that dumb? I don't know. Is it inconsiderate? I think almost certainly it is. Isn't it possible therefore that at least some of the flak that you guys get is sometimes in some ways deserved?

But hey I have a fairly long list of hero's - and the attitudes of a few uniformed people here are unlikely to change that in any way at all.

GJ

damn man, i hope you don't think Americans can't name a few respectable people that are not American. Who here do you think only idolizes Rock Stars and movie stars. From my experience, those figures are idolized in other parts of the world as much, if now more, then they are in the US. This idea that Americans are all media driven, pop star facinated, un-educated dolts shows the limited and egocentric views of those who believe that idea.
people are people, regardless of race, color, or creed. The idea that belonging to some national group or religion makes someone a better person is crazy. In fact, i'd eat my hat if, taken away your vision and the ability to distiguish vocal accents, you could tell an american, from a european, from a chinese, from a jew, from a communist, from an australian, etc. The only rules would be to not talk about politics or religion. My point behind this? These are the only thing that separate people from one another. You are no different or better than any american, who is no better than you.

(I am certainly not trying to attack you, just to make a point, it goes to all who read this thread).

raid517 · Mar 8, 2005, 04:50 PM

Hey, you guys do your fair share of Europe bashing and world bashing too. So what does that make you? World haters?

GJ

raid517 · Mar 8, 2005, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vikingod

damn man, i hope you don't think Americans can't name a few respectable people that are not American. Who here do you think only idolizes Rock Stars and movie stars. From my experience, those figures are idolized in other parts of the world as much, if now more, then they are in the US. This idea that Americans are all media driven, pop star facinated, un-educated dolts shows the limited and egocentric views of those who believe that idea.
people are people, regardless of race, color, or creed. The idea that belonging to some national group or religion makes someone a better person is crazy. In fact, i'd eat my hat if, taken away your vision and the ability to distiguish vocal accents, you could tell an american, from a european, from a chinese, from a jew, from a communist, from an australian, etc. The only rules would be to not talk about politics or religion. My point behind this? These are the only thing that separate people from one another. You are no different or better than any american, who is no better than you.

(I am certainly not trying to attack you, just to make a point, it goes to all who read this thread).

Then go on then. No peeking at Google mind. Off the top of your head write out that list for me. How long would it be before you would seriously start to struggle? Could you get passed one? Maybe three? Five perhaps?

You complain loudly that the label is undeserved, yet you do nothing to disprove it.

And I excluded movie stars and rock stars because I personally don't find them inspiring. In my view they are little more than a bunch of dancing monkeys. There are real stars in this world, people who make a difference every day they live - and I think it is a massive injustice that they receive so little recognition for their efforts. We are talking in this instance about scientists, surgeons, humanitarians, political dissidents who risk their lives in the name of freedom, charity workers and just all round decent people doing decent things in an effort to try to make the world we live in a better place.

Those my friend, in my eyes are the real stars.

Which is why several of my own personal hero's are American. I don't particularly distinguish between the nationality of people like this - but unlike some here perhaps, at least I'm aware that they exist.

Best regards,

GJ

wiskerbizkit · Mar 8, 2005, 07:43 PM

I think things would be a lot different if Bush wasnt in. hillbillies shouldn't be aloud to vote. Not that kerry would have been a ton better, but at least we wouldnt be mixing church and state. The biggest problem i have in USA is everyone is very nosey and always getting into your business.

Example: Guy hit my girlfriend once, pardon my french but i beat the fuck out of him. who got arrested? me. who got 30 days and 3 years probation? me. oh yeah and the three different trips to anger management because obviously i am supposed to stand there and let this douche hit my woman. the country is an emotional pussified version of itself. Oh yeah i got drug counsiling too for no reason whatsoever, i've never even smoked weed... Ever. BTW america's drug laws need to be changed hardcore, their would be way less everything. I knew a dude who smoked pot got arrested for having two joints, regular dude, clean record. when he got out of jail he then turned into a criminal.

Oh well Rant off

~~Turtle~~ · Mar 8, 2005, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWX

More America bashing on DH.. where else?

Ya, whenever we start talking about America it ends bad. I personaly like my Amercan neighbours, its just the dumb F#cks (Gabriel_Etranil) that piss me off. Telling me to STFU, idiot.

wiskerbizkit · Mar 8, 2005, 08:01 PM

lumping all americans together the way warpy does is like calling every arabic looking person a terrorist, If you ask me thats the true stupidity

BWX · Mar 8, 2005, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turtle

Ya, whenever we start talking about America it ends bad. I personaly like my Amercan neighbours, its just the dumb F#cks (Gabriel_Etranil) that piss me off. Telling me to STFU, idiot.

I visited Canada 5 times last year. I had no problems with the people there and they knew where I was from... I have nothing against any country, maybe their government, but not the people.. If they hate me for where I live that just proves they are morons.

wiskerbizkit · Mar 8, 2005, 08:02 PM

BWX you're the man now dog!

Gabriel_Etranil · Mar 8, 2005, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turtle

Ya, whenever we start talking about America it ends bad. I personaly like my Amercan neighbours, its just the dumb F#cks (Gabriel_Etranil) that piss me off. Telling me to STFU, idiot.

Hmm, I was recalling "pleasant" events from my childhood in Europe so I guess I was a little agitated at the time, so I apologize for the STFU comment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turtle

HAHA
Good you dumb Fuck!!

But all this did was show that I did have the right understanding of you.

Quote:

And no expecting you to know some of the names of the most prominent world leaders is not like expecting me to know who the Governor of Idaho is. That is like me expecting you to know who the member of Parliament for Ontario is. No one is expecting you to know this. But a basic awareness of some of the issues and main characters in those countries in which you have very frequent dealings (and in one instance you actually invaded) might seem to most people to be at least desirable. How can you say how despicable, poor and undeserving of your time and effort these all of these country's are if you know virtually nothing about them?

Parliament is like the Senate/Congress and I never said anything about that. The Governer was a bad example, but the fact that you came to the conclusion you did from a hypothetical example really shows something.

President McAleese, Mary
President Hamid KARZAI
President HU Jintao
Emperor AKIHITO

And I'm a stupid American.

digerati · Mar 10, 2005, 10:51 AM

It's threads like this with the mud throwing that makes me wish javafox was still here

raid517 · Mar 10, 2005, 01:31 PM

Yeah, I wonder whatever happend to JavaFox? He was a tough customer, but at least he came up with some decent arguments. It was fun to see how his position sometimes changed - at least in some ways he wasn't always as dogmatic as some of these guys. Maybe he just found like me that sometimes extended debates like this can take up too much time? I hope he is OK anyway.

But oh well. These past few weeks the political threads haven't really been about anything. Just a bunch of euro baiting and yank baiting drivel.

It is almost as if some people think there is no more news anymore except Iraq.

(I do have a couple of ideas for new threads, but I'm going off somwhere for a few days, so I don't have time to get tied down by them right now).

Anyway peace! (Or not as the case may be).

GJ

solar_flare · Mar 10, 2005, 04:36 PM

why do thrreads like these alwys end up like that....dont people know the meaning of DEBATE

BWX · Mar 10, 2005, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solar_flare

why do thrreads like these alwys end up like that..

Because people write stuff like that and get away with it- the mods can't read everything.

digerati · Mar 11, 2005, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raid517

Yeah, I wonder whatever happend to JavaFox? He was a tough customer, but at least he came up with some decent arguments. It was fun to see how his position sometimes changed - at least in some ways he wasn't always as dogmatic as some of these guys. Maybe he just found like me that sometimes extended debates like this can take up too much time? I hope he is OK anyway.

But oh well. These past few weeks the political threads haven't really been about anything. Just a bunch of euro baiting and yank baiting drivel.

It is almost as if some people think there is no more news anymore except Iraq.

(I do have a couple of ideas for new threads, but I'm going off somwhere for a few days, so I don't have time to get tied down by them right now).

Anyway peace! (Or not as the case may be).

GJ

His personal life got the best of him so he had to leave his modly duties. Every now and then I'll report something to Toshiro but it's like putting a band-aid on a severed limb lol

Sandok · Mar 21, 2005, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldBuzzard

Well, you can post all of that tripe that you want to, but the fact remains that we are still #1 in one very important area.

We can kick your ass anytime that we decide to

I just saw this

Damn Old buzzard, if you think that's being number1, then your an old delusional fool. Being able to own another country is useless. And in the last 2 wars (afghanisatn and iraq) you were fighting pesants... Of course you can own em! You can own anyone as week as that! In vietnam they were trained and the US was owned... And try taking out china or russia... It's nuclear holocaust with no winner... We all get nuked

There is no number 1 or 2. Tell me about the country in number 1 educationally. Are they the best? No because no one CAN be the best. This whole thread started on a pointless subject.

raid517 · Mar 21, 2005, 04:05 PM

Mmm... well I'm not keen on dragging all this up again. I said my piece. But if 'kicking the butts' of a bunch of insignificant and largely irrelevant 3rd world countries makes you feel good, then that's up to you. Personally I've never been very impressed by big guys who pick on the little guys in order to try to make themselves feel better. We have a name for that - and it isn't a very nice one either.

GJ

BWX · Mar 22, 2005, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raid517

Mmm... well I'm not keen on dragging all this up again. I said my piece. But if 'kicking the butts' of a bunch of insignificant and largely irrelevant 3rd world countries makes you feel good, then that's up to you. Personally I've never been very impressed by big guys who pick on the little guys in order to try to make themselves feel better. We have a name for that - and it isn't a very nice one either.

GJ

Yeah, that's what we do...

-not

raid517 · Mar 22, 2005, 02:52 AM

Lol... Well we could get into naming names - or in this instance specifically countries. The US has pretty much done a grand tour of the entire 3rd World at one point or another. (And not always to the benefit of those countries either). But I don't think it would be very constructive to get into more mud slinging - even if BWX continues to cling to the falacy that his country and his fellow countrymen are beyond reproach.

GJ

BWX · Mar 22, 2005, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raid517

- even if BWX continues to cling to the falacy that his country and his fellow countrymen are beyond reproach.

How about you stop telling me what I think!? You keep spewing the same crap-ola about me in every response you make to my posts. I never said that so quit lying, making things up, and trying to put words in my mouth.

raid517 · Mar 22, 2005, 03:20 AM

No but you do so like to imply it. (As in that's what we do - not. Despite the fact that I could easily post a very long list of small countries that have 'entertained' American forces over this last 50 years). And this is an open forum. People will do awful things - like post responses to comments that other people make. No one forces you to be here. If you don't like it, you know what to do.

GJ

BWX · Mar 22, 2005, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raid517

No but you do so like to imply it. (As in that's what we do - not. Despite the fact that I could easily post a very long list of small countries that have 'entertained' American forces over this last 50 years). And this is an open forum. People will do awful things - like post responses to comments that other people make. No one forces you to be here. If you don't like it, you know what to do.

GJ

That isn't the point- I never said it, and you say that's what I think. So knock it off.

raid517 · Mar 22, 2005, 03:46 AM

So you are free to imply things - but no one is supposed to respond?

Quote:

So knock it off.

Or what? You will cry like a baby?

Why don't you knock it off?

It seems to me you are more interested in squabbling over nothing than in discussing any of the topics raised.

Like I said, I've said my piece on this topic. If you have anything new to add then feel free. Other than that, you can roll your eyes till the cows come home for all I care. It makes no difference at all to me.

GJ

BWX · Mar 22, 2005, 10:14 AM

[IMG]It seems to me you are more interested in squabbling over nothing [/IMG]

No - I just told you to quit putting words in my mouth- and telling me what I think, if that's all you can do then obviously you don't want to discuss the issues anymore. You do it all the time because you can't think of anything better to say.. This thread is garbage anyway.

raid517 · Mar 22, 2005, 12:18 PM

Lol, well you seem to feel able to do it to me, with all your 'anti-American' BS whenever I or anyone else says anything you find remotely difficult to deal with.

Unfortunately this is a free world - or at least I do live in a genuinely free country - and you can't sue me for saying what I think. So you will either have to learn how to live with it - or just get over it.

And no I don't want to discuss this particular topic any more. But that is my choice. I genuinely don't have anything new to add - as it seems clear neither do you. And I really could spend my time a lot more usefully rather than comming here and reading about you prattling on about the things that upset you. But just to clear it up for you.... I don't really care - and I won't be changing my views or my debating style in any hurry any time soon either. I haven't done it in all this time, so what makes you think I will at any point in the forseeable future?

You can either toughen up, smarten up, or leave. Those are your three options - and they are the same for anyone who posts on these forums.

Crying everytime you think someone misinterprits something you said isn't going to win you any new friends here at all.

GJ

Mar 8, 2005, 03:25 PM	#64
raid517 DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,518 Rep Power: 0	Well this section is about politics. Nevertheless I am willing to focus on the positive. I would be happy to draw up a list of the 50 Americans I admire most in the world, if you draw up a list of the 50 Europeans (or even just world figures in general - it doesn't have to be just Europe) that you admire. Can you do it? And I mean people you genuinely admire. For me it is relatively easy. How about you? Can you do 30?, 20? 10? So OK how about one? Do you think you can even manage one? So OK in the entire history of the planet can you name one prominent world figure outside of America (without looking it up or thinking about it) that you can say you admire unreservedly? (Movie stars and rock stars are excluded). You see I think the problem is that a lot of you guys can't. Is that dumb? I don't know. Is it inconsiderate? I think almost certainly it is. Isn't it possible therefore that at least some of the flak that you guys get is sometimes in some ways deserved? But hey I have a fairly long list of hero's - and the attitudes of a few uniformed people here are unlikely to change that in any way at all. GJ Last edited by raid517; Mar 8, 2005 at 03:36 PM.

Mar 8, 2005, 04:50 PM	#68
raid517 DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,518 Rep Power: 0	Hey, you guys do your fair share of Europe bashing and world bashing too. So what does that make you? World haters? GJ Last edited by raid517; Mar 8, 2005 at 05:04 PM.

Mar 10, 2005, 04:36 PM	#78
solar_flare DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 88 Rep Power: 47	why do thrreads like these alwys end up like that....dont people know the meaning of DEBATE __________________ >>sig done by sun_walka

Mar 22, 2005, 03:20 AM	#86
raid517 DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,518 Rep Power: 0	No but you do so like to imply it. (As in that's what we do - not. Despite the fact that I could easily post a very long list of small countries that have 'entertained' American forces over this last 50 years). And this is an open forum. People will do awful things - like post responses to comments that other people make. No one forces you to be here. If you don't like it, you know what to do. GJ Last edited by raid517; Mar 22, 2005 at 03:29 AM.

Mar 22, 2005, 10:14 AM	#89
BWX unplugged Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: USNY Posts: 19,665 Rep Power: 109 System Specs	[IMG]It seems to me you are more interested in squabbling over nothing [/IMG] No - I just told you to quit putting words in my mouth- and telling me what I think, if that's all you can do then obviously you don't want to discuss the issues anymore. You do it all the time because you can't think of anything better to say.. This thread is garbage anyway. __________________

Mar 8, 2005, 02:40 PM	#61
raid517 DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,518 Rep Power: 0	I agree, I think this thread should either be closed or moved to the flame warzone. I don't particularly hate anyone - but I will hold my own when people attempt to put me or my country or the region I live in down. There are good things in America, just as there are good things in Europe, or in the rest of the world for that matter. It would make a change if even only sometimes we could focus on these. GJ

Mar 8, 2005, 07:43 PM	#70
wiskerbizkit DH ***** hobo Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Columbia SC Posts: 467 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	I think things would be a lot different if Bush wasnt in. hillbillies shouldn't be aloud to vote. Not that kerry would have been a ton better, but at least we wouldnt be mixing church and state. The biggest problem i have in USA is everyone is very nosey and always getting into your business. Example: Guy hit my girlfriend once, pardon my french but i beat the fuck out of him. who got arrested? me. who got 30 days and 3 years probation? me. oh yeah and the three different trips to anger management because obviously i am supposed to stand there and let this douche hit my woman. the country is an emotional pussified version of itself. Oh yeah i got drug counsiling too for no reason whatsoever, i've never even smoked weed... Ever. BTW america's drug laws need to be changed hardcore, their would be way less everything. I knew a dude who smoked pot got arrested for having two joints, regular dude, clean record. when he got out of jail he then turned into a criminal. Oh well Rant off

Mar 8, 2005, 08:01 PM	#72
wiskerbizkit DH ***** hobo Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Columbia SC Posts: 467 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	lumping all americans together the way warpy does is like calling every arabic looking person a terrorist, If you ask me thats the true stupidity

Mar 8, 2005, 08:02 PM	#74
wiskerbizkit DH ***** hobo Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Columbia SC Posts: 467 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	BWX you're the man now dog!

Mar 10, 2005, 10:51 AM	#76
digerati Everyones life has worth Join Date: May 2003 Location: My Yellow Bug Posts: 3,779 Rep Power: 61	It's threads like this with the mud throwing that makes me wish javafox was still here

Mar 10, 2005, 01:31 PM	#77
raid517 DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,518 Rep Power: 0	Yeah, I wonder whatever happend to JavaFox? He was a tough customer, but at least he came up with some decent arguments. It was fun to see how his position sometimes changed - at least in some ways he wasn't always as dogmatic as some of these guys. Maybe he just found like me that sometimes extended debates like this can take up too much time? I hope he is OK anyway. But oh well. These past few weeks the political threads haven't really been about anything. Just a bunch of euro baiting and yank baiting drivel. It is almost as if some people think there is no more news anymore except Iraq. (I do have a couple of ideas for new threads, but I'm going off somwhere for a few days, so I don't have time to get tied down by them right now). Anyway peace! (Or not as the case may be). GJ

Mar 21, 2005, 04:05 PM	#82
raid517 DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,518 Rep Power: 0	Mmm... well I'm not keen on dragging all this up again. I said my piece. But if 'kicking the butts' of a bunch of insignificant and largely irrelevant 3rd world countries makes you feel good, then that's up to you. Personally I've never been very impressed by big guys who pick on the little guys in order to try to make themselves feel better. We have a name for that - and it isn't a very nice one either. GJ

Mar 22, 2005, 02:52 AM	#84
raid517 DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,518 Rep Power: 0	Lol... Well we could get into naming names - or in this instance specifically countries. The US has pretty much done a grand tour of the entire 3rd World at one point or another. (And not always to the benefit of those countries either). But I don't think it would be very constructive to get into more mud slinging - even if BWX continues to cling to the falacy that his country and his fellow countrymen are beyond reproach. GJ

Mar 22, 2005, 12:18 PM	#90
raid517 DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,518 Rep Power: 0	Lol, well you seem to feel able to do it to me, with all your 'anti-American' BS whenever I or anyone else says anything you find remotely difficult to deal with. Unfortunately this is a free world - or at least I do live in a genuinely free country - and you can't sue me for saying what I think. So you will either have to learn how to live with it - or just get over it. And no I don't want to discuss this particular topic any more. But that is my choice. I genuinely don't have anything new to add - as it seems clear neither do you. And I really could spend my time a lot more usefully rather than comming here and reading about you prattling on about the things that upset you. But just to clear it up for you.... I don't really care - and I won't be changing my views or my debating style in any hurry any time soon either. I haven't done it in all this time, so what makes you think I will at any point in the forseeable future? You can either toughen up, smarten up, or leave. Those are your three options - and they are the same for anyone who posts on these forums. Crying everytime you think someone misinterprits something you said isn't going to win you any new friends here at all. GJ