I wish my parents were like this

Highwood

To all the people out there that don’t want to see any changes to the laws regarding marijuana think about this, all the criminals and criminal organizations that profit from the production and sale of marijuana don’t want the laws changed either, there business would be ruined.

100th post wOOt!

digitalwanderer

Think of how much jail room we could free up by releasing non-violent marijuana offenders.

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fornicatarachnid

....... to carry on stealing in order to feed their expensive habit

-={420}=-

People wouldn't need to steal because if it was legal they would legally be able to grow their own supply. And that would also reduce many other crimes.

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fornicatarachnid

What about those that haven't got green fingers, like me, I struggle to keep a cactus alive

JavaFox

That is a fallacy. First, in light of all the litigation brought against tobacco manufactuers as of late, many companies many not be interested in bringing marijuana to market. Furthermore, once marijuana is legalized, taxes will be imposed on it. Finally, when legalized, it is likely that only people that are a certain age will be allowed to possess it. All of these facts suggest that there will still be a very large black market that will utilize the existing illegal distribution system. Drug dealers will still exist, as they currently do, to sell untaxed, untested drugs to minors.

You keep ignoring my questions! WHY, DW, if that is SO true, is it infinitely easier to spot a dope-head than an alcoholic? Marijuana has long term effects on people's reasoning/thinking/comprehension abilities! Stop IGNORING the facts.


Dude, that might be true for some kids, but it sure as hell isn't true for ALL kids. The FACT is, of teenagers in rehab, there are more marijuana addicts than there are drug and alcohol abusers combined. I realize your rationalization makes sense to you, but if you're unable to concede that marijuana use comes with SOME risks, then I seriously call your critical thinking skills into question!


I wasn't. I was merely stating that there is no basis for comparison between tobacco and marijuana because tobacco isn't a psychotropic drug.

Dig, I honestly thought more of you than to think that you were so eager to succumb to propaganda. I can't believe you actually said "Think of how much jail room we could free up by releasing non-violent marijuana offenders!" Firstly, it is FACT that most non-violent drug users get TREATMENT, not jail time. In fact, it is ALSO A FACT that only 5% of federal prisoners are simple drug users. It's also a FACT that most drug use cases aren't even prosecuted: only 2.5 percent of the federal cases argued in District Courts involved simple drug possession. And in Michigan, only 15 out of 47,000 inmates were incarcerated on first-time drug possession charges. Jails are not full of "non-violent dope smokers" as so many supporters of legalization claim.

reno

The reason why it's easy to spot a pot head is because they're little kids, who do it to "rip the system" ... which means THEY ARE STONED WHEN YOU SEE THEM. Alcoholics, true ones, usually don't show themselves out of bar and home. You don't see many middle class fathers, who have alcohol problems, chugging on a 40 on mainstreet...but that group of "gothic" 14 year olds with anarchy symbols on their jackets WANT you to see them stoned, it makes them feel cool.

If you think a pothead is easier to spot than an wino or a boozer, go to germany. Go to the downtown of any city, and count the raging homeless alcoholics, then count the pot users...I had rich kids who were the top of their classes and who gave speeches on supressing drug use offering me pot at parties there...which surprised even me!

I hope you people realize that you do much more damage to your brain with alcohol than with marijuana. Some organic drugs...opium, pot...have virtually no true long term side effects. Most side effects are witnessed when people mix organics with other drugs, alcohol, or a shitty lifestyle.

Example) My friend smokes a lot of weed, no messing with a bong (which filters the THC and isn't much more than expensive tobacco then), and he's as vital and sharp as the day I met him. Then, he starts drinking. smoke a joint, kick back a shot, drink a beer. This goes on for a while and soon, he becomes depressed and loses his work ethic.

Example) Most kids who drop out of college are binge drinkers and boozers. "Pot Heads" don't need to stay up till 3am boozing it with thier buddies, they can smoke a toke, get their homework done, and light up before bed at 10.

Example) Friend of mine smokes even more weed than first friend, knows more practical knowledge than most 80 year olds and is faster than Michael Shumacher's driving in witty report.



Pot should be legalized, people are killing themselves with legalized drugs as it is (booze, cigs, coolwhip (nitrous oxide...figure it out)), and the US spends more money and gives more prison time to marijuana cases than murderers and rapists...why not legalize it and tax it? a 20 billion dollar industry...it's the US's biggest cash crop!

-={420}=-

Well you can't expect to change the world in one day. Right now, with marijuana illegal, everyone who wants some has to either buy it on the black market, grow their own, or go to Amsterdam. If it is legalized, most people will be able to buy it from stores legally and only a minority of people (teens) will still be buying it on the black market. Soon enough, though, dealers who used to sell to teens and adults will start to lose a lot of business and will diminish. It's like with cigarettes or alcohol--they're both legal, but not for teens. And yet, they still manage to get it. Legalizing marijuana will not cause chaos. It will only give a more legit and safer sources to get it. And if you don't like taxes, (who does) you can always grow your own. That's the best thing about marijuana--it's easy to grow and doesn't require expensive equipment or too much experience.
That's just your opinion. I agree with reno's statement:
v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v
This has already been answered:
v v v v v v v v v REPLY: v v v v v v v v v
But there is basis. Both are smoked, both have cancer-causing carcinogens. One actually kills people and is legal; one never took a single life and is not. I agree with tobacco not being a psychotropic drug but that doesn't mean that it doesn't cause damage to your body--It does!
Now, I don't know if you watch cops or not, but when you do watch it a lot, you realize something...Cops are ASSHOLES! Of course, I already knew that. The way that they treat people disgusts me. They find a little bag of weed on you so they have to smack your head against the cement and twist your arms all over the place. I mean, seriously, WTF is going on! Shouldn't they be more concentrated on the REAL criminals? The ones that get away with taking innocent people's lives as they please. Or the ones that rape helpless women time after time and get away with it. Why would you put someone in jail for posession of drugs? What have they done wrong? If they wanna do what they do, they will do it no matter what. So, what's the point of having a high-speed chase and risking many other innocent people's lives just to catch someone who just wants to get high? If that's the way it's gonna work, this country has SERIOUS problems.
I know you intended this for DW so I'm just gonna shut up now and let you two debate it.

As for my conclusion, reno explains it quite well:

Peace. -~~~~~~~4~2~0~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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digitalwanderer

I was only ignoring this question out of curteousy JF, it makes you look silly to keep going on about it. I agree with the two previous posters, I think you're confusing your opinion with fact again here pretty powerfully.

The sad fact of the matter is you CAN'T tell most people who smoke, honest. You'd probably be very shocked at the people who do as they live perfectly ordinary lives, unlike the stereo-typical hang up you seem to be fixated on.

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Shaith

This thread sucks...where's my damn remote.

-={420}=-

[COLOR=green]It has become[/COLOR][COLOR=blue]the most[/COLOR]&nbsp[COLOR=green]popular thread in the Off-Topic Forum.........and I started it.[/COLOR]

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reno

It's very popular because more than 30 percent of the US has used or is using this illegal drug.

If you think about it JavaFox, if Pot was legalized, like cigarettes, and mass produced....sold for 3 bucks a pack, and limited to those over 18...why would anyone feel the need to buy it from street dealers?

No one buys cigs off of the black market, just because they're expensive now, do they?

Ponder this

digitalwanderer

I hate like hell to say this since I agree with your argument, but I used to work in Calumet City a lot and there used to be a HUGE blackmarket for cigarettes back then.

I live right on the border of Indiana and Illinois, (On the good side, I'm a hoosier. ), and at that time cigs cost about 1.25 in IN and about 2.75 in IL due to some tax increases. The temptation of crossing the street to buy smokes and sell them at over a 100% mark-up and still have a thriving buying crowd was just too much temptation for most.

Human greed will break all laws of common sense, but I still think legalizing dope will have a HUGE beneficial effect on society.

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-={420}=-

Yes, I too have noticed that cigarettes are being sold on the streets to kids. Alcohol can also be acquired in this way. But, this is something we cannot stop.

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reno

Well yes, but it's not as widespread as illegal drug distribution...hopefully

JavaFox

Another reason there will be a huge black market for marijuana and the like --even with legalization-- is that the black market infrastructure already exists. You don't have that with tobacco, and it wasn't quite as large with alcohol. The cartel/dealer distribution methods already exist and will continue to be utilized even with legalization. Furthermore, companies may not be interested in producing or heavily promoting marijuana -- in light of anti-tobacco litigation. After all, someone who smokes five joints per week may be taking in as many carcinogens as a pack-a-day smoker. Finally, a pervasive black market will still exist because marijuana exerts an enormous power on youth. History has show that whenever marijuana decriminalization is seriosuly considered, youth use goes through the roof. Black markets will continue to exist for the purposes of selling to minors.


What? While there is ample evidence of the negative effects of marijuana, why is there not one iota of evidence that shows it has any positive effects whatsoever? The question isn't really "is marijuana bad for you?" anymore -- that is fact. The question has become "is it so bad we need to criminalize it?" Your answer to that, is, obviously, no -- and that may be a valid position. But certainly, DW, you don't mean to argue that marijuana has a positive effect on anyone!

digitalwanderer

No argument, but again you forget to mention the rest of that statistic; the huge spike in use is only TEMPORARY! Kids always try new things, so what?


Arrrrgh! Dude, do you have some weird & mysterious "Book of Facts" at your side that you keep checking that none of us have ever heard of?!? IT IS NOT A FACT, it is an OPINION.

There isn't any evidence of the negative effects of marijuana use that show it being anymore dangerous for you than smoking cigarettes. I've still to see any evidence to the contrary.

As for positive benefits; marijuna is very beneficial in the treatment of glaucoma, extreme nausea, and hypter-tension.

It's also a great way to chill out after a looooong day.

Yes, yes I do. I think the whole country would actually greatly benefit if EVERYONE tried dope. This place is becoming way too uptight way too quickly!

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JavaFox

If by temporary you mean FIFTEEN YEARS, then I guess you're right. Remember, pot was legal in Alaska from 1975 to 1990, and they criminalized it because their youth abuse rate was 200% that of the rest of the nation.


The numerous studies that that prove a conclusive link between marijuana use and amotivational syndrome, decreased capacity to retain and process information, addiction, and numerous other ailments are more scientific and factual than any of these unmentioned, unwarranted "postive effects" of marijuana abuse. Keep ignoring it if you like, but pot has negative effects on people, and you simply cannot contest this. Like I said, it's not really a question about whether or not it's bad anymore -- it's more a question of whether or not we think it's so bad it warrants criminalization. And your answer no. You mention that it's "no worse than cigarettes" and numerous pro-legalization people echo you, saying that pot is no more dangerous than alcohol. You aren't arguing that pot is good because to do so would have no basis in fact -- people argue that pot is "no worse" than legal drugs and THAT is the basis of the pro-pot movement.


By this logic, we should use heroin to treat people instead of morphine. There is no FDA-approved medical treatment in which the medication is smoked -- not one. The reason for this is that it is difficult to have measured, regulated doses of "medicine" and because smoking is a pretty ineffecient way of administering medicine. While I agree that THC has some benefits for suffering patients, SMOKING it --and all the carcinogens that come with it-- is the most ridiculous medicine conceivable. In case you didn't know, DW, there is a purified, synthesized THC pill that is already available for prescription use. It has all the benefit that THC can bring to a suffering cancer/glaucoma/anorexia sufferer without the negative aspects. So don't feed me that trash about how you're pro-pot because it benefits sufferers. There is THC in a pure pill form already for them. The fact is, most marijuana-users that support "medical marijuana" only do so because it will bring de facto de-criminalization.

fornicatarachnid

Effects of Marijuana on the Brain

Researchers have found that THC changes the way in which sensory information gets into and is processed by the hippocampus. The hippocampus is a component of the brain's limbic system that is crucial for learning, memory, and the integration of sensory experiences with emotions and motivations. Investigations have shown that neurons in the information processing system of the hippocampus and the activity of the nerve fibers in this region are suppressed by THC. In addition, researchers have discovered that learned behaviors, which depend on the hippocampus, also deteriorate via this mechanism.

Recent research findings also indicate that long-term use of marijuana produces changes in the brain similar to those seen after long-term use of other major drugs of abuse.

Effects on the Lungs

Someone who smokes marijuana regularly may have many of the same respiratory problems as tobacco smokers. These individuals may have daily cough and phlegm, symptoms of chronic bronchitis, and more frequent chest colds. Continuing to smoke marijuana can lead to abnormal functioning of lung tissue injured or destroyed by marijuana smoke.

Regardless of the THC content, the amount of tar inhaled by marijuana smokers and the level of carbon monoxide absorbed are three to five times greater than among tobacco smokers. This may be due to the marijuana users' inhaling more deeply and holding the smoke in the lungs and because marijuana smoke is unfiltered.

Effects on Heart Rate and Blood Pressure

Recent findings indicate that smoking marijuana while shooting up cocaine has the potential to cause severe increases in heart rate and blood pressure. In one study, experienced marijuana and cocaine users were given marijuana alone, cocaine alone, and then a combination of both. Each drug alone produced cardiovascular effects; when they were combined, the effects were greater and lasted longer. The heart rate of the subjects in the study increased 29 beats per minute with marijuana alone and 32 beats per minute with cocaine alone. When the drugs were given together, the heart rate increased by 49 beats per minute, and the increased rate persisted for a longer time. The drugs were given with the subjects sitting quietly. In normal circumstances, an individual may smoke marijuana and inject cocaine and then do something physically stressful that may significantly increase the risk of overloading the cardiovascular system.

Effects of Heavy Marijuana Use on Learning and Social Behavior

A study of college students has shown that critical skills related to attention, memory, and learning are impaired among people who use marijuana heavily, even after discontinuing its use for at least 24 hours. Researchers compared 65 "heavy users," who had smoked marijuana a median of 29 of the past 30 days, and 64 "light users," who had smoked a median of 1 of the past 30 days. After a closely monitored 19- to 24-hour period of abstinence from marijuana and other illicit drugs and alcohol, the undergraduates were given several standard tests measuring aspects of attention, memory, and learning. Compared to the light users, heavy marijuana users made more errors and had more difficulty sustaining attention, shifting attention to meet the demands of changes in the environment, and in registering, processing, and using information. These findings suggest that the greater impairment among heavy users is likely due to an alteration of brain activity produced by marijuana.

Longitudinal research on marijuana use among young people below college age indicates those who used marijuana have lower achievement than the non-users, more acceptance of deviant behavior, more delinquent behavior and aggression, greater rebelliousness, poorer relationships with parents, and more associations with delinquent and drug-using friends.

Research also shows more anger and more regressive behavior (thumb sucking, temper tantrums) in toddlers whose parents use marijuana than among the toddlers of non-using parents.


mmmmm, sounds really good for you eh Dig ?

digitalwanderer

Yeah, well and good...except it didn't really say anything about permanent effects other than the "similar to other long-term drug use" without even SPECIFYING what drug use they're comparing it to.

Also, NO pothead smokes weed like tobacco! So even though it's 3-4 times as bad on the lungs (if you smoke it unfiltered...), you're still smoking 1/10 the quantity.

That's the kind of propaganda I was talking about Forni, that isn't proof.

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fornicatarachnid

Did you actually read it or were you reading it like this .........

digitalwanderer

No, I really read it and I didn't have my blinders on...but with information like that I really need to see the source credited to give it any validity. (No offense intended, it's just a rule of mine on medical advice over the web. )

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fornicatarachnid

Ok, here's the source you asked for

digitalwanderer

And did you notice that they pulled all that info directly from NIDA? Now, it's not like NIDA has any bias or anything...


Oh yeah, one more thing from that page in case you ain't too sure who NIDA is:

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fornicatarachnid

oh and you aren't biased ? It doesn't mean the info is incorrect just because you choose not to believe it

digitalwanderer

Sure I'm biased! But I'm biased based on quite a bit of personal experience and first-hand observation of others of quite a span, which is a lot more reliable to me than a bunch of "facts" that have no supporting evidence to them. (DOUBLE- ! )

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fornicatarachnid

It wasn't posted as "facts" but information and if that info is to be believed then due to your past habits, your brain will be incapable of gathering and storing your own observations because it has been turned to mush lol ( TRIPLE )

digitalwanderer

EXACTLY! Now I've never claimed to be any kind of genius or nothing, but it's been a while since someone has called me the dimmest bulb on the tree.


This circular logic is getting me all dizzy; the faster I go, the rounder I get!

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fornicatarachnid

Dig ....you're the dimmest bulb on the tree

Now do you give in before you pop ?

digitalwanderer

Bwah-hah-hah-hah-ha, you must not know me.

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