-={420}=-

Source: THBee

'Pissing' our rights away

Today my daughter goes to take her Bla*Mart urine test.

First I'll give a little background on her.

Up until she was of age (18), she was always kept in the dark about her parents occasional pot smoking as we didn't wan't to be a "bad" example. She graduated her D.A.R.E. course at the top of her class and was always praised by the officer in charge.

Well, one fine day (it was inevitable) we went to a barbeque to our friends house. The kids were inside and the adults were on the back deck cooking and enjoying a few beers when I pulled a doob out. We passed it around a few times when suddenly she came outside on the deck. This happened as mom as in mid-drag. Oops.

Well, she stormed off and out the front door to the street and proceeded to say she was walking home (40 miles). I went after her and she began to call us potheads and drug addicts, etc.

I began to explain to her that mom and I were not potheads but that we used it responsibly from time to time. After about 15 minutes of walking and talking she said she would go back if we promised not to smoke anymore and I said "we'll see".

Well about a month later, she was at one of her friends homes and tried pot for the first time. Ya know what? She liked it.

We have always had open communication with our daughter except for the pot thing as we have heard about kids being used by D.A.R.E. to bust parents.

Anyway, her friends that she tried pot with take other drugs as well, but the funny thing is, she has no interest in trying anything else.

After she tried pot and confessed it to my wife a week later, we told her that she could smoke pot any time she wanted and even smoked with her a few times.

She has a hard time with having such freedom and is actually embarassed smoking with us.

She doesn't smoke pot as of this writing and will pass her "test" with flying colors with no doubt.

We have repeatdly told her that urine tests are an invasion of privacy but she doesn't seem to care (residual D.A.R.E. indoctrination?).

I think that because we didn't keep the "cookie jar" out of reach, she no longer desires to partake.

It's funny that pot is called a "gateway" drug. If that is so true, why does my daughter not even desire to smoke weed any more, let alone take harder drugs?

In my own personal experience, I believe that pot is not a gateway forward, but actually a way back from hard drugs. I had a injury years ago and was prescribed narcotic pain relievers for quite a long time. When I ended using them, I used weed to ease back into a normal life with no withdrawl torment.

Pot is NOT a gateway drug, and when it becomes legal, I can guarantee that it will be used less because the "thrill" of sneaking will be gone. Pursuit of a vice is sometimes more thrilling than the vice itself. The government will be surprised at the usage stats of pot for the years following legalization (Netherlands) and wonder why they wasted so much money and resources in demonizing such a useful plant.

In any event, she is going to pee for the "man" so she can get a job. We are proud of our daughter and some day she will teach her children to keep open communication with her.

You see, parents (even pot smoking ones) are the anti drug.

End Prohibition, it works not. (Yoda immitation)

__________________

digitalwanderer

...is I ain't gonna work no where that wants to check my pee!! That's just plain sick!

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-={420}=-

got that right

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UberLord

They'll be happy with a blood test

COMPANY LINE: If you've got nothing to hide then you'll take the test. If you don't take it then you DO HAVE something to hide and therefore you're guily and therefore you're fired. Have a nice day

BOTTOM LINE: Since when did companies give a rat's ass about personal privacy?

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Stephen Roberts

-={420}=-

There's still a lot of jobs out there that don't require drug tests. Or you can always use someone else's urine.

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JavaFox

If marijuana is really so safe and unaddictive, why do hundreds of thousands (225,000 in 1999) of Americans admit themselves to drug rehab centers because of it? In fact, after heroin, marijuana-abusers are the single largest group in rehab centers today. Why do people never mention the amazing amount of carcinogens found in marijuana cigarettes? And the profound effects that cannibis has on people psychologically are so blatantly obvious that it's almost tiring to bring them up

While marijuana's role as a "gateway drug" has not been proven to any medical certainty, it is a uncontestable fact that people who have tried marijuana are 104 times more likely to try cocaine.

Marijuana is a dangerous drug with serious side effects. My only solace in a world bent on decriminalizing this dangerous botanical is that at least most American's have the sense to keep it illegal. Propositions to decriminalize it in Nevada as well as Arizona were defeated earlier this month.

UberLord

Ban cigarettes and alcohol then. Both are more addictive and dangerous than a block of morrocan red

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-={420}=-

Damn straight. And I know from my own experience that if u use it responsibly, you can quit at any time which is more than I can say for tobacco or alcohol. I'm not saying marijuana is not addictive, I'm just saying that it's a completely different addiction. With alcohol or tobacco, if u do it for a long time u can't stop even if u want to cuz u get withdrawals and such. With marijuana, if used responsibly that is, you can just smoke when u feel like it. Your body is not really addicted to it and nothing happens if u quit. The reason people keep doing it is cuz they like the high and it feels good. It's more like a mental addiction, but that's much easier to overcome.

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JavaFox

Firstly, Uber, I don't honestly think you're for banning alcohol. I think you'd be more apt to legalize marijuana. But why introduce yet another addictive substance? For the sake of consistency? At any rate, there's a distinct difference between drug use and alcohol/cigarette use. First, the rate of addiction is actually quite lower. Only 10% of people that try alcohol become alcoholics -- it's significantly higher with drug use.

Secondly, the effects of marijuana use are radically different from those of alcohol use or tobacco use. Tobacco is not psychotropic like marijuana is, so there is almost no basis for comparison. Marijuana causes serious impairment in memory, concentration, learning abilities, and can cause amotivational syndrome.

Finally, there is no "responsible use" of marijuana that will spare you from its effects. Marijuana, over time, will impact you psychologically in a profound way. This is why it is relatively easy to spot a dope-head versus an alcoholic in their sober states. You cannot continue to use marijuana and not have it affect your mind; it isn't possible. Alcohol, on the other hand, CAN be used responsibly. There is evidence that shows that regular wine drinking is in fact good for you. Marijuana has no such benefit.


Postscript: 420, marijuana has documented withdrawal symptoms that include sleeplessness, anxiety, nervousness, restlessness, amd loss of appetite.

Renegade[CSR]

I support this statement completely and Java has brought up very serious statistics. Legalizing this would be like just about telling the people that the government doesn't care about all the risks and dangers it has.

On the note of cigarrettes and alcohol, its the cigarette companies that refuse to close and cease production, therefore cigarrettes are taxed heavily (at least here).

And there haven't even been studies on the effect of second hand marijuana smoke (If there have I'm not aware of it) and the dangers it could present.

digitalwanderer

I've got experience with all three, and it just strikes me as stupid that the most dangerous and addictive is the easiest to get!

I can quit the happy, it's no biggy. I like, but I don't need. Alcohol and me sort of went our seperate ways when the wife first got pregnant and I gave it up in support, and I just never seemed to take it up again. (I don't have the TIME to drink! I got kids, I got to be functional 24/7. )

Cigarettes are a B_I_T_C_H to quit! I've been quitting nicotine in one form or another for over the past 5 years. Kids would be the big cause for a number of reasons and is the only thing that keeps me trying, but the demon nicotine is the worst monkey to get off your back! It's MUCH worse than coke. (Long, long, loooong time ago. Never after: coke is death. ) I started smoking again earlier this week when I stressed out, and I'm STILL pissed at myself about it.

Gave it up yesterday again, but I've got 30mgs of nicotine patches on. I think I actually prefer the patches to smoking, a much steadier/fuller nicotine rush.

But I really wish people would quit trying to demonize pot, it really cuts their credibility when they actually try and warn ya about the real dangerous chemicals out there.

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JavaFox

Just because there are more dangerous things out there than marijuana, DW, doesn't mean there shouldn't be intelligent debate about it. There are extremely sobering statistics regarding pot on record, and they point to issues that need to be discussed and considered.

Alcohol and nicotine, yes, have done incalculable damage, but saying that marijuana should be legalized because of this fact isn't a very cogent argument, in my eyes.

All I really wish is that people would actually think about and consider arguments against pot use instead of dismissing them outright.

JavaFox

By "here" you mean the "Undisclosed Renegade Location"?

Renegade[CSR]

Sorry, such information is not available to the common public

digitalwanderer

Name a few. Heck, name ONE. (But no "gateway" arguments since legalizing it would take away the gateway effect. )


You do me a great dis-service sir, I have researched it and researched it rather well. I would highly recomend you check out a few non-government or non-profit websites on the subject before you dig your hole too deeply.

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WTF is up with the sigs?

-={420}=-

I couldn't agree more with u, digitalwanderer. I, too, have spent some time researching marijuana and I feel like people just aren't getting the big picture. Many people are against it because of the way they were brought up. With D.A.R.E. and all the other crap filling kids' heads with unsupported facts like "Marijuana is a gateway drug" or "Marijuana leads to violence" it's hard to distinguish the hoaz from the truth. Sure, there are some things that support those statements, but, there's also many others which prove them wrong. I don't wanna write a whole essay about it, it's just something one has to research themselves and (I'm not pursuading anyone to start smoking here ) maybe they should give it a try. If u don't like it, fine. Just let people have their own choices instead of making it illegal. I bet if it never became illegal, less people would be doing it, or not doing it as much. Because, as you all know, human curiosity will drive us to do the things that we're not allowed to do. It's been proven many times before. So, I think it's best they use the same approach that Amsterdam is using because they just can't win the war against something as big as drugs. It's just like it used to be with alcohol prohibition. The government thought that if it just prohibited alcohol, it would stop all alcohol abuse. But, what actually happened was much worse. People were bootlegging alcohol and getting drunk anyways. Even people who have never drank before started to because it was so illegal. I mean, just imagine if they banned alcohol nowadays, or cigarettes for that matter. If they only knew then what they know now about all the harm that alcohol and tobacco does to your body, they would both be declared illegal. Cigarettes alone cause 1,200 deaths per day. And that's just from smoking-related cancers. Now, alcohol, I have nothing against drinking socially but if you've been drinking heavily for a while, you will notice drastic changes to your body and mind. To add to that, think of how many innocent people die each year because of alcohol-related crashes. What are they thinking? If alcohol and tobacco are legal, why should marijuana not be? I mean, come on, if I smoke marijuana before or even while driving, I feel fine. I don't start swerving all over the road, I don't drive too fast, or take other stupid risks that a drunk person would. I'm not saying they should ban alcohol, because even if they did, it would hardly have any effect on crashes. People would still drink! Just like with marijuana: even though it's illegal, people still smoke and will continue smoking it.

Here's a little something I found:

Q. Has Anyone Ever Died From Smoking Marijuana?

A. No; not one single case, not ever. THC is one of the few chemicals for which there is no known toxic amount**. The federal agency NIDA says that autopsies reveal that 75 people per year are high on marijuana when they die: this does not mean that marijuana caused or was even a factor in their deaths. The chart below compares the number of deaths attributable to selected substances in a typical year:

_________________________*_______________________
|Tobacco.......................................... .........340,000 - 395,000
|Alcohol (excluding crime/accidents).........125,000+
|Drug Overdose (prescription)..................24,000 - 27,000
|Drug Overdose (illegal)...........................3,800 - 5,200
|Marijuana........................................ ........0
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
*Source: U.S. Government Bureau of Mortality Statistics, 1987
**Source: All univerity medical studies: UCLA, Harvard, Temple, etc.

Sorry I couldn't find a more recent chart but the same is still true for marijuana.

With that said, I leave you to your own decisions.

Peace -~~~~~

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UberLord

Firstly, I'm not saying that it's addictive.
Secondly, if everyone smoked marijuana there wouldn't be any wars fights.

"Hey - you white Christian heathens! I set you up the bomb!"
"Sure - just take a pull on this doobie first"

30 mins later

"Pass da pringles"

(I'd like to thank Bill Hick's for that skit)

I'm actually in favour of making alcohol and marijuana legal, whilst making tobacco illegal.

You're badly misinformed if you think marijuana is psychotropic. It just slows everything down.

Tobacco stimulates the brain to learn more/better. So is smoking good for you?

Chocolate causes serious weight gain, tooth decay, skin problems and hyper activity.

It's time to learn that everything has both good and bad points. In this case, marijuana has more plus points than negative points in respect to many comparable legal consumables.



All things in moderation. It's been scientifcally proven that small doses of marijuana are good, large doses bad. Strangely enough, similar results have been found with alcohol as you rightly pointed out.

Alcohol Widthdrawal

Just an example.

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JavaFox

I agree with your one point, to an extent. The gateway effect only really exists because marijuana is illicit, and that it is a psychological thing and not a physical effect. However, do you think no harm will be done to this country because of legalization? Do you propose that the people "tough it out" until marijuana use becomes socially acceptable? There is no way you'd see the gateway effect dissapear overnight. And Americans will suffer inexplicable harm in the interim.

In my eyes, the most sobering statistic regarding marijuana is the number of people who entered substance abuse treatment in 1999. With 225,000, this puts it behind only heroin. So, DW, with your experience, it doesn't bother you at all to consider that more people have to seek treatment to kick the dope habit than they do the coke habit?

It is a FACT that THC suppresses neurons in the information-processing system of the brain, which leads to the detioriation of learned behaviors. The side effects of marijuana are not debateable -- there are scientific fact. Marijuana use alters the brain and there is every indication that marijuana has a serious impairing effect on the abilitiy to sustain attention, the ability to process information, and the ability to synthesize and use information; it leads to slowed perception and reasoning skills, an inability to retain information, and a difficulty to become motivated. Again, I will ask the question: if these things are not so true, why is it so much easier to spot a dope-head than an alkie?

It is a FACT that emergency room mentions of marijuana use have increased 600% since 2000, despite the fact that the number of users is roughly the same. This isn't true of alcohol. Researchers at Harvard University claim that Harvard University researchers report that the risk of a heart attack is 500% higher than usual in the hour after smoking marijuana.

It is a FACT that teen use of marijuana SKYROCKETS when it is legalized. In 1975, Alasaka voted to decriminalize marijuana use for individuals 19 and older. As a result, though, use by 12-15 years spiked and stayed high (no pun intended). The problem became so bad in the following 15 years that they voted to re-criminalize marijuana in 1990. This phenomenon has been recorded every single time marijuana legalization attempt has been seriously considered. It happened in 1979 when 11 states considered legalization. It has happened in various European states. The fact is, when marijuana use is legalized, use among the very young goes through the roof -- you're okay with this, DW?

Finally, it is a FACT that marijuana use is deterimental and cannot be used responsibly. There is no evidence that marijuana use has any positive effects whatsoever on the human brain. In fact, no human being can use marijuana for a prolonged amount of time and NOT be mentally affected by it. It isn't possible. Marijuana alters your brain and it is unavoidable. Period. The question is, "do I think the negative effects of marijuana warrant its banning?" I say yes.

Uberlord, the word psychotropic refers to something that is "has an altering effect on perception, emotion, or behavior" -- if you can't admit that this is what marijuana does, then I don't know that we can have any sort of conservation whatsoever.

digitalwanderer

The gateway effect has very little to do with psychology so much as it has to do with environment, IMHO. If you're gonna smoke weed, you're going to have to buy it or aquire it somehow. That means finding a connection to the local black market. Once you have that established you suddenly have access to these other drugs too, hence the gateway effect.

Make it legal, and no one has to meet Guido at the local 7-11 at midnite anymore.


It is NOT a fact, it is PROPAGANDA! That bit about how it suppresses neurons? That IS true, but the affect is only TEMPORARY! That is a fact, not a partial truth. It reminds me of the old Doonesbury cartoon where they're doing experiments with marijuana on rhesus monkeys, and after being exposed to the equivelant of only ONE marijuana cigarette the rhesus monkeys were TOTALLY INCOHERENT!!!


Yeah, I am. Because once the kids experiment with it they quit it or use it responsibly. I'd much rather have it out in the open where I can deal with it if they're abusing it than to have it hidden from me 'til it is too late. And your stats for the emergency room I'm gonna have to question, 'cause there's just too many nebulous elements to that for me to consider. ("How do you know who a user is, what kind of user, were they using other things, etc.)

I've actually heard quite positive things about all me buds from Holland about it, it actually helped out quite a bit.


No, it's an opinion that it's detrimental and cannot be used responsibly...more precisely it's YOUR opinion. That does not make it a "FACT" no matter how strongly you feel on it.

Lots of things alter your brain and the way you think, from your job to the food you eat. Granted, pot has a much more directly visible affect while you're being effected...but everything affects us and the way we think. The brain is not a static unit, it's much more akin to a dynamic process. I'll still argue the whole point of "the negative effects of marijuana" being worse than the negative effects of marijuana being illegal is a crock-o-sh&t.

BTW-I've got some first-hand knowledge that it won't turn you into a raving lunatic, and it's gonna take some damned strong evidence to show me otherwise.



Yeah, it's a long quote but I wanted to get the whole thing in. Yes, dope has a psychotropic affect....BUT THAT'S WHY PEOPLE SMOKE IT!!!! Just because something is "psychotropic" doesn't mean it's bad!

Don't try and use scary buzz words, we'll bust ya.

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David

How many of those 225.000 were ordered by a judge that were caught with pot who entered substance abuse treatment. I`d bet atleast 200,000 of them. Also some people allow themselfs to become adictive or want to find something to blame thier weak mind on. Fact of the matter is that Different things affect different people in different ways.The war on drugs is a total waste of money because it can not be won. Allow me to choose weather I do or do not wanna try something. Get the numbers on home many of those 225,000 who entered rehab that were ordered by a judge to go to it. Just because they had alittle weed on them. I know here in atlanta if your even caught with a pipe judge will order you to go to rehab.

fornicatarachnid

.....and you think that after smoking weed you remain fully functional ?? I just don't understand how you can say this. The main reason I decided to kick it years ago was the fact that I realised that I wasn't fully functional and that I could be putting my kids at risk.

-={420}=-

I agree completely with that. Most of those people are forced to go to rehab not want to go there.

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Dane Sabbath

All debate, questions, answers, and the whole lot of it is bunk.

No one. NO ONE. On this planet has the right to tell me 'This plant is bad. You may not have this plant.'

Not the Individual, not the State, not the Church.

The EARTH made that plant. The religious would say GOD.

I have NEVER agreed in my life to commit myself to a society that attempts to control my communion with our VERY PLANET. I never will, and I believe that we have inalienable rights to all things natural. Including our lives. YOU are the only person who was born to control YOU. Don't let others make you a sheep, you will fall prey to their wolves...

PS

In old Russia coffee was banned as a drug. Punishment was being drawn and quartered. Not a bad reaction to a bean....

Alcohol has absurd amounts of data proving it's 'worth' to society.

Nicotine, caffeine, many pharmaceuticals, and many other drugs that are PRODUCED, not GROWN, are allowed by your governments. HUGE numbers of natural plants are restricted or banned for the same properties that makes them valuable to pharmaceutical companies.

Do the math people. Take control of your own lives again. Before you need a revolution to do it...

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digitalwanderer

Maybe I am deluding myself, but I like to think that after a couple of decades I know pretty well how it affects me and how it effects my functionality. Every time you make an accusation like that I keep thinking you have a mental picture of a unkept, smelly hippy-type sitting around and smoking a 4' graphics or something and that just is NOT the case.

Pot doesn't turn me into a raving lunatic, it just relaxes me. The worst I can say is I tend to turn a bit apathetic, but that's why I don't do much/often and only late night when everyone sleeps.

I'd like to think that there actually are people who are responsible enough to manage their own partying, either that or everyone who drinks is an alcoholic.

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DallasStar

Javafox, I agree with you 100%.


I had a friend with a 137 IQ turn into a stupid idiot that didn't know what's what because of marijuana. And he claimed to be "responsible."


You do know that once a braincell dies or is damaged, the damage is permanent and the body won't be creating any more, don't you??

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Highwood

I agree with Dig, I mostly use pot later at night when the kids are in bed and all my responsibilities and obligations have been met for the day. I find if I smoke a joint about 2 hours before bed it helps me to shed some of the stress built up during the day, and to get a better nights sleep.

fornicatarachnid

You're deluding yourself Dig

I blame 20 years of smoking pot on your present state of mind

digitalwanderer

Yup, but where did anyone ever say that pot killed braincells? It DOESN'T! It affects the way they work temporarily, but when the chemical reaction wears off the braincells fully recover.

Same for it's affects on RNA & DNA, I checked into that one rather extensively before we had the kids.

BTW-IQ is a suck-assed way to measure intelligence.


Oh gods, then may I NEVER quit! My life has never, ever been better/happier/fuller/richer/more rewarding! I don't just seem like a ridiculously happy person, I really am. When you see me throwing hissies or bonkers somewhere it's really quite a controlled and cathartic reaction for me, that's "Dig" going off...not John Hayden.

Don't get me wrong, I can see where you get the wrong idea from my online persona...but that's all it is, a persona. The person behind it is a bit deeper and more complicated; but he's also exceedingly happy with where he's at, what he's doing, and proud as hell about his family and how well and happy they are.

It's a lot to be proud of, and when it isn't driving me nuts I really am.

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Highwood

Wednesday, September 4, 2002
By DARREN YOURK
Globe and Mail Update
Senate Committee Urges Legal Marijuana
The federal government should legalize the use of marijuana by adults, the Senate committee on Illegal Drugs recommended Wednesday in its final report.
The committee's more than 600 page report, tabled Wednesday, says that the current system of prohibition in Canada does not work and should be replaced by a regulated system that would focus on illegal trafficking, prevention programs and respecting individual and collective freedoms.
"In our opinion, Canadian society is ready for a responsible policy of cannabis regulation that complies with these basic principles," the report says.
The report, the result of a two-year study of public policy related to marijuana, also recommends that the federal government amend the controlled drugs and substances act so that it can declare an amnesty for any Canadians convicted of possession of the drug under current or past legislation.
"Scientific evidence overwhelmingly indicates that cannabis is substantially less harmful than alcohol and should be treated not as a criminal issue but as a social and public health issue," Progressive Conservative Senator Pierre Nolin, the committee chairman, said Wednesday at an Ottawa press conference.
The committee says that public opinion on marijuana is more liberal than it was a decade ago and that Canadians strongly support the use of the drug for medical purposes.
"This report is a unanimous one," Liberal Senator Colin Kenny said. "No one on the committee wants to see an increase in the use of cannabis. In fact, we believe that the recommendations you see in this report will ultimately result in a reduction of use of the drug.
"We think that the main accomplishment we'll see here is a reduction in the criminality associated with the drug, and we think that is a very valuable benefit."
The report also strongly urges the federal government to develop a comprehensive and coordinated national drug strategy. The committee is calling for a national adviser on psychoactive substances and dependencies to be created within the Privy Council.
"We really need to get our act together on a multilateral basis on our drug policy in general," Mr. Nolin said. "In many ways, prohibition is a copout."
It is not clear if the committee's recommendations will ever be adopted. There is broad support in Parliament for decriminalization of marijuana, but the Liberal government has not signaled whether it would introduce a bill calling for legalization.
"There is no need for great delays if the government agrees with us," Mr. Nolin said. "We hope that the government will immediately address many of our suggestions, particularly those related to medicinal marijuana."

fornicatarachnid

lol I don't know where you got the idea that I see you as......Ive never said anything of the sort

I read a lot of your 'ramblings' about your life and family and think you are lucky to be so happy. You remind me a lot of how I used to feel a few years ago

ps. good luck with quitting the fags. I used the nicotine patches and together with the help and support of a very good friend I managed to finally pull it off and have been a 'non-smoker' for 20 months now, which is something I'm extremely proud of