trodas

Uhm, Im not good in writing apologies, nor my gramar is good enought, but I try to write a apology for using the N-word in insensitively and rude way

I do it, however, for quite a different reasons that Zardon want. (anyone with half a mind could use thousads of anon proxies over the net, so baning anyone who knows how to change it's IP is impossible)

But my ability to defeat lame simple worthless IP ban is also not the reason why I bother writing this.

The reason is, that despite my very offending and provocative style of presenting my opinions, I have nothing against any black people (hell, I don't like very much even this term, should not someone come up with something way nicer, like caucasien, but for them?) and especially not for the rason they just aren't the same color as caucasiens.

I simply believe more in individuality that on race prejudice.
In fact, there is quite a few black (grrr, I don't like this word!) guys, that I admire pretty much - such as Khalil Bendib for his amazing draw skils and brilliant views ( http://bendib.com/ ), the 50 Cent raper (from the time I read Playboy interview with him), the members of San Francisco Delancey Street organization (mostly black guys and gals as well) and so on...

Now, why I made this comment? Well, because I hate being politicaly correct and I sometime feel the urgent need to push some limits to see, what happens
I also hate the "black guys" naming, so, I did not wanted to write African blacks (sound too bad to me), so for these there reason I choosed to use the N - word.

Sorry about it to whatever get offended by it.

Im also sorry, because using just one wrong word spoiled (or so it seems?) the whole idea of the post - and I can't help, but want to remind the offended ones, that the whole post thing is pretty pro-blacks. If this don't show that Im have no race prejudice, then I don't know what does. Remember, the post complained that pope and the whole christianity baning blacks (now is not this word as ugly, as the N-word?!) or any christians, but in the Africa, there are mostly blacks (grrr, damn word...) from using condoms, witch result (especially in Africa!) a true genocide of these black peoples, because of the unfortunate level of HIV positive Africans.

Now this point get completely lost and that make me sort of sad, especially because it was completely pro-blacks (now I realy starting to hate this word!) and no-one seems to notice.

Oh, well, and Im Europe citizen. Im not being used to limit my vocabulary just becaue it might offend someone. This is a absolutely principialy different from the principes my country are build on, so confrontating me with some american ways of restrictions probably cause sometimes some problems. Freedom of speech is undivided thing and some confrontation helps sometimes

At least it shows how far we are different and why we never can understand, why US army, for example, teaching guys how to shot and kill other people, but don't allow them to write fu*k on their airplanes, because it is obscene.

Now this is simply unknown world beyond my understanding, so have a little faith with me, my views aren't racist, Im just not used at all to the idea of restricting my vocabulary.

And yes, Im also not politicaly correct and Im always ready to throw some uncomfortable facts, because provocating a discussion and confrontation of ideas is the best way to get know each other and shape up own views and knowledge


PS. and someone pleaase come with better alternative to call the black people that either the N-word or jsut calling them blacks is

PS2. trying to teach me about being politicaly correct could end up just this way: http://elftor.com/elftor.php?number=30
(now I just hope that everyone is up to this joke... )

digerati

Black is a color. It was a color way back when. The N word was invented to subjugate blacks. Now I say black because I also say white, and brown (which I am).

The word equivalent to Caucasion would be African I think since I was told that Caucasion is derived because apparents whites come fromt he Caucus mountains.

trodas

Brown is a beautifull color for girls
Thumbs up for them

However it did not help me so much, since Im affraid that not all the the "diferent color people" come from Africa. In fact, I hear something about diferences between African blacks and "normal" blacks... Damn, it is getting ony my nerves

Why one should even have the need to distinguish between peoples?

Why the hell I even come up with the idea, that all peoples in Africa has to be black ones? It might be even a discrimination of the caucasin farmers, for example. Well, if Mugabe did not already got them killed anyway...

So far, the point was menat to be that pope might be racist, because his recommendations for christians, and mainly these in Africa, lead to massive lost of lifes... ...of mainly the black Africans, what seems to take the religion seriously and not with serious grain of salt...

It sort-off looks that is almost impossible to debate on some issues, while remaining to be politicaly correct...

digerati

You have to distinguish people because people are different. Not only for social matters either, for health matters, for psychological matters. Blacks are more prone to sickle cell than whites? Why? Because Africa is known for Malaria.

There are lines between political correctness, racism, and reverse racism. I refuse to say African Americans because I don't say European Americans or Mexican Americans. If I were to give them that special term that would be treating that perticular race different than the others.

Like many things in this world there are fine lines and you have to know where to walk or you'll get yourself in trouble.

And as for blacks using the N word in their music and movies, they can rot. I totally agree with Bill Cosby on that one.

>GSXR<mrbusa

you guys are high.
black is black, white is white,brown is brown,and red is red.
who freaking cares,people are people.
simple as that.

LuCifer

LMFAO! Good One...

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Pompey

There is less than 1% genetic difference between all of us. There is no such thing as separate human races.

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One's inability to find an answer to a question does not imply that the question has no answer.

digerati

And there is less than 5% difference between us and Chimps. We are different people. We react to things differently. We fight diseases differently. Some races are more prone to poor eyesight than others, some are more likely to develope sickle cell because of their race not because of where they live.

Is it grounds for basing hatred against? NO! But does that mean we should ignore such things? Should we not screen blacks for sickle cell in the US because it is very unlikely that the rest of the population will develope it?

Falstaff

if often wonder if my own children know that my mother is racially mixed and my father is Scandanavian, why they assume because their mother was a Mexican National that they are somehow hispanic in origin, LOL. It makes me laugh. My first girlfriend was black, and I lived overseas for years before I became aquainted with cross burning and racial hatred on either side.
I lived in Japan where it didn't matter what color you were, if you were Japanese you werent worth considering in terms of the great family of man.
Black or white or yellow or red, if people embrace stereotypes, live the stereotype and shun those that dont live it or feel it so to speak, they are as racist as those that demonstrate open hatred of anyone that is not of their "colour" or race, or culture. Racism in any form is based on fear not hatred.

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Sandok

You know the difference in between "blacks" and "whites" is not even less than 1%. It's even lower. There is a difference but no in the human genome, more in the chromosomes at a minute level. I don't know if there is a race or not but the difference is very small and the bio chemists have a particular term for talking about human difference. Forgot it though

Anyways, I'm 100% indian and brown and I don't really care much. Politicaly I'm black

MIG-31

Racism is mostly brought upon by a small majority of people from each race who would prefer separation to certain areas in the uk,but i suppose that can sometimes be th same all over also.

here in the uk racism is brought upon by a few small minded idiats over the last ten years or so,The reason i say this is Black is just a word and the term Black is fast becoming a lost word.

example 1: The council (government bodys for areas in the uk) decide on the term Blackboard's in school rooms are to be no longer called Blackboards incase it insights racism....now called chalkboards.

example 2: age old nursery rhyme Ba Ba Black sheep is again Banned from schools for the same reason.

I myself is far from racist but to me the 2 examples instigate more problems than they seemingly want to fix.

after all it's going to become a time Caucasians will lose the Right to free speech and just can't say anything in a person's opinion.

It's just can be a little annoying when it seems to be made out only WHITE people are racist!!!!!!!

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radTube

Trodas, I think you might be overestimating the influence of the pope in Africa. According to http://www.rc.net/africa/catholicafrica/, in the end of 2001 16,7% of Africans were Catholic. No use blaming him here.

Pompey

Im not saying we should ignore it. We are different people but not different races. If we were different races we could not have children with people from different ethnic origins, not naturally anyway. I think a a lot of the physical differences between us are due more to environmental factors, our ancestors body’s altered slightly to cope better in the conditions in a particular area.

Wether or not to screen blacks (there, I said it!) for sickle cell disease is a difficult question to answer. Ideally yes, if it helps fight the disease but it depends upon the resources the health service has. If they are reluctant to its probably a funding issue. They target the disease that affects the most people. I guess my only reply would be to ask should the screen white people for skin cancer every summer?

I have to say im not surprised at the facts MIG-31 gave. What are they going to call whiteboards? Unfortunately its happening all over the world. Governments are becoming to PC.

Ive noticed the same kind of think happening with women’s rights and the feminist movement but thats another issue.

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One's inability to find an answer to a question does not imply that the question has no answer.

digerati

Race: A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.

Race does not mean species. Species can't interbreed. But you are right, they have adapted to their surroundings which is why blacks are more likely to get sickle cell because it helps with malaria. Problem? Blacks here in America which is malaria free (mostly) still develope it because it is passed down their bloodline genetically.

And they do screen whites more often for skin cancer. As well as screen Eastern European Jews for diseases such as Tay Sachs because they were forced to interbreed amongst themselves for a long period of time, making diseases that are double recessive on the chromosome list much more common.

Pompey

I was using the human race definition. Its impossible to describe someone’s race as black, white or brown, they are simply colours. Within Europe there are distinct ethnic groups (Germanic, Scandinavian, Anglo-Saxon...). Travelling around Asia or Africa you can see just as many ethnic groups. Most differences between us are within each "race" and on a more personal level, rather than between them. Biologically we are all practically the same. Its that 1% that makes all the difference.

Diseases found only in one particular "race" or people are very rare, most dont discriminate between their victims. Eastern European Jews do not have a higher rate of Tay Sachs because they are Jewish. They have a higher rate due to the inbreeding.

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One's inability to find an answer to a question does not imply that the question has no answer.

Callandor

The best neuro-surgeon in the world is a black man - Ben Carson. He's the only neuro-surgeon in the world that can do a hemisphererectomy i.e, removing one half of the brain, to cure eplepsy, to leave the healthy half alone inside the persons' head to resume all normal functions of the other half (who would probably be able to change his/her IP proxy as well!! ).

No other neuro-surgeon can do this without killing the patient, and for this, he is highly respected (and he's american of course).

This just goes to show that blacks are not stupid, just that they had the warm climate and did not see need for developing newer and greater technologies than they already had, but we were stuck with the cold weather and were forced to improvise or die.

It comes down to this however way you look at it, and trust me, I've tried several different vantage points.

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digerati

That's what I said -_-

But that is something that is now specific to them, as such they need to be treated differently and screened more thoroughly.

pigdog

Good on you Trodas, for putting your point forward. I also don't think threatening a ban was the best solution. Smacks of censorship.

That said, Zardon is right to act against what can be deemed bigotry or racism, but at the minimum, a right of reply should be granted; you've certainly been given that, and used it well.

I have a quiet passion for DH, but I would leave and never return if it became a forum for the intolerant and ignorant.

On the subject of the word "Nigger",I can't think of an equivalent term for white people. So I really don't understand the situation at the instinctive level.

But I too feel discomfort at the word nigger being used by black people on themselves, but after the way many white people have used it against them (and plenty still do) It's a bit cheeky to criticise!

I also find Mig's point relevant.I'm sure if you raised a group of children of various genetic backgrounds in a enviroment free of both racism AND PC reponses to it, those kids would NOT develope racism all on their own.

Child: "Why can't we call it a blackboard anymore teacher?"
Teacher: "Because we don't want to offend our black brothers and sisters".

Child: "But why would this offend them"?
Teacher: . . . . . . . . .Well, if you don't already know kid, it's going to be really hard to explain (in other words, I'm not really sure)".

I think that the above exchange would make the kid start looking at things from a more "us and them" perspective.

shame

Think about it for a moment - how would you explain racism to someone, hell ANYONE, who had never experienced it, or heard about it before? (without making our society sound a bit ridiculous)

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pigdog

That's my point. If we were talking about a genetic inheretency that was NOT race specific, then this sort of a conversation would not even cross our minds. But the minute race comes into it, people on all sides of the agument seem to lose focus on the real issue.

If it was specific to TALL people, would that be an issue?

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Pompey

Quote:

But that is something that is now specific to them, as such they need to be treated differently and screened more thoroughly.

They already have mass screening programs in place for Tay Sachs and all it does is detect the disease. There is no cure. All mass screening programs do in this case is warn the parents their baby has/hasn’t got the disease.

Mass screening programs are a great idea but most heath systems dot have the resources to screen for each and every disease. They have to tackle the biggest problems first. There is nothing stopping a black American going to get a blood test if he knows he has a family history.

I dont think someone should be discriminated against or given advantage over others based on their race. "Nigger" was inappropriate but banning someone for using it is over the top in my opinion. Im not black however and if I was I possibly would have been just as angry at its use.

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One's inability to find an answer to a question does not imply that the question has no answer.

dj_stick

it's not just the use of the word, it's also the context the word is used in, aswell as the topic of discussion…

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Pompey

Well, he's apologised. I can certainly understand a member of the back community taking offence to its use. The only equivalent I can think of is someone calling a white person a "white pig". Banning someone i still maintain is over the top, a suspension would have been ok. I think banning should be reserved for people who continuously use such language.

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One's inability to find an answer to a question does not imply that the question has no answer.

digerati

It would for me. I mean doctors do tell people born with gigantism that people with that condition usually die at a younger age than normal, but gigantism is a rare occurance.

pigdog

I'm 198cm (6'6"). That's why I used that example I guess. It would be an issue for me, but not for all those little (sorry - vertically challenged ) people out there (their everywhere I tell you -EVERYWHERE! ).

I guess what I'm trying to say is that we tend to get sidetracked from issues of health, on to issues of race. And issues of race then tend to become issues of racism. They get hijacked by a vocal minority on the PC side (I mean for pete's sake - A Blackboard's potentially racist?), and also become fuel for racists and bigots (of all colours).

On a side note - I am enjoying this thread; some interesting ideas being put forward in a civil manner. cool. ( Actually, where is BWX? )

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Zardon

He wasnt banned, he was given the opportunity to resolve this issue publically to the members of the community he offended, before the use of this language was deemed "acceptable". The word "nigger" is totally unacceptable on this forum. If you read any history you will understand why - one member on this forum was so offended he asked me if I was a bigot for allowing it to remain in public view, he also explained exactly why it was offensive to him. I was certainly not going to argue with him, and indeed apologised in email that it was not caught sooner. There is NO place for racism on Driverheaven, and I will not tolerate it.

The apology in this thread was not exactly the wording I would have liked to read, but hopefully this thread has served a point to any people reading this who feel words like this are acceptable in public conversation on Driverheaven. They arent. For those who dont understand why they ARENT acceptable perhaps its food for thought and time for a little self taught internet education on the matter.

Ill close this thread, if anyone wishes to continue a debate dealing with similar subject matter, please feel free to open another thread but keep it flame free.

Thanks !