Marine clear of Falujah shooting..

Falstaff · May 5, 2005, 07:19 PM

In a unanimouis decision, a court if inquiry has cleared a marine of all charges relating to the shooting of an IRAQI insurgent in Falujah. http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/05/fal...ine/index.html http[color=#232d35] http://www.kevinsites.net/2004_11_21...07420331292115[/color]

Vikingod · May 5, 2005, 09:01 PM

good, IMO it was media BS. Its a damn war, can't punish a soldier for shooting the enemy. i saw the video, and in the same situation, I would have shot too.

Dark Lord · May 5, 2005, 09:06 PM

the other big thing that the time was they were hideing explosives on the bodies of fallen insurgents and then blowing them up as the troops came through. at the time when this story first came out, the marine was afraid this was another one that was about ready to detonate on his squad.

pr0digal jenius · May 5, 2005, 10:17 PM

yea, court marshalling guy for shooting the enemy is pretty lame.

mkk · May 5, 2005, 10:37 PM

Uhh, I guess that's okay for everyone then.

Falstaff · May 6, 2005, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkk

Uhh, I guess that's okay for everyone then.

yes I believe your right..LOL

TJ- · May 6, 2005, 07:02 AM

well since the military is falling short of thier recuriting numbers, punishing this guy would make those "kids" think twice about joining an army that punishes you for doing your job. So i guess its all in the catagory of, "we cant punish him, then noone will want to go get our oil for us."

Damn Government.

cheese_thief · May 6, 2005, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [zi0n]aXe

well since the military is falling short of thier recuriting numbers, punishing this guy would make those "kids" think twice about joining an army that punishes you for doing your job. So i guess its all in the catagory of, "we cant punish him, then noone will want to go get our oil for us."

Damn Government.

...or how about just because the marine didn't do anything wrong in that given situation, and dind't deserve to be punished?

The_Neon_Cowboy · May 6, 2005, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by another-user

the other big thing that the time was they were hideing explosives on the bodies of fallen insurgents and then blowing them up as the troops came through. at the time when this story first came out, the marine was afraid this was another one that was about ready to detonate on his squad.

AS memory serves me they had that happen in their unit just a few days
before in incident and lost men from their unit!.

Quote:

Originally Posted by [zi0n]aXe

well since the military is falling short of thier recuriting numbers, punishing this guy would make those "kids" think twice about joining an army that punishes you for doing your job. So i guess its all in the catagory of, "we cant punish him, then noone will want to go get our oil for us."

Damn Government.

Yes, in your eyes we should punish the innocent eh? Figures...

If it's oil we are after? Why would Iraq be governing it self when we leave?
and could stop selling oil period if they wanted or to whom @ what ever prices…
Oil is a factor but one of dozens. Evenen if they hadn't a single drop of oil on thier
soil we'd still be in there.There are many reasons Iraq should have been done any
single one a good reason on it own merits. But This should have been done back in
the 1990’s after saddam invaded Kuwait. But Clinton (Watch the clition chronicals)
lacked the resolve and back bone. Iraq’s people rose up to help defeat saddam and
Clinton pulled out forces leaving those people high and dry. They filled mass gives with
their bodies after saddoms men slaughtered them and their families. There Is a lot of
IRAQy - U.S. hatred that is because of that...

What you’re afraid they may not see us as the bad guys? As you clearly always do?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheese_thief

...or how about just because the marine didn't do anything wrong in that given situation, and dind't deserve to be punished?

many others like him here that come off as posting anti us proaganda sees the terrorists
and insurgents more like "freedom fighters" in the since the term it was used in WW2 in
the resistance. (Wich has no appication here becouse they are fighting everyone
includeing IRAQ's, Afgan's, and everyone in gernral... For power and money)

They hate America and in there eyes it can do no right and always seem to side with the
terrorists, who are murderers of men women children and babies killers in gernral...

[hobo]eclipse · May 6, 2005, 01:13 PM

thank god! that was so rediculas, glad its over 4 him and he can relax about all that.

hEY cHEESE
i notice yer runnin an ABIT A7N8X

where can i get one of those and is the VDIMM any higher than 2.8?

TJ- · May 6, 2005, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Neon_Cowboy

Yes, in your eyes we should punish the innocent eh? Figures...

i never said that.

But anyway didnt he unload like 45 rounds into the guy.

Vikingod · May 6, 2005, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [zi0n]aXe

But anyway didnt he unload like 45 rounds into the guy.

No, watch the video and get your facts straight. I remember him shoot thing guy once, having a look and leaving the scene. You should really do a search for the video before you pass judgment. It wasn't like a Rambo movie.

Falstaff · May 6, 2005, 08:07 PM

the key question and the one that ultimately got the charges dismissed were the "rules of engagement". It was a lawful act under the rules of engagement to counter threats with force when engaged, and the wounded as someone mentioned could have hidden explosive devices on their person or hidden a weapon under their torso or legs to use when the marine was sweeping the inside of the mosque. It has occured in the past, and perhaps will remain a threat, suicide bombers and gunmen will attempt to lure Marines and soldiers into situations where they will drop their guard and attempt to shoot or explode themselves. Ultimately a court of inquiry exhonorated the marine. I cannot say as much for the NBC camerman though, the film was released without permission

Gabriel_Etranil · May 7, 2005, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [zi0n]aXe

i never said that.

Quote:

punishing this guy would make those "kids" think twice about joining an army that punishes you for doing your job

He was accused of not acting in accordance to his job, doing his job means that he would be innocent. Punishing him for doing his job would mean punishing him for being innocent. By saying that they didn't punish him for political reasons implies that you beleive he should have been punished for doing his job. That would mean you believe the innocent should be punished, if it pleases the anti-American crowd.

TJ- · May 7, 2005, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabriel_Etranil

He was accused of not acting in accordance to his job, doing his job means that he would be innocent. Punishing him for doing his job would mean punishing him for being innocent. By saying that they didn't punish him for political reasons implies that you beleive he should have been punished for doing his job. That would mean you believe the innocent should be punished, if it pleases the anti-American crowd.

what the hell are you trying to say, that doesnt make sense.

Captn · May 12, 2005, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [zi0n]aXe

what the hell are you trying to say, that doesnt make sense.

Try reading it again...LOL. It makes alot of sense.

~~trodas~~ · May 12, 2005, 09:34 PM

Shoting unarmed enemy is murder, according to Geneva laws of war engagement. All other BS about it is simply BS and excuses. Lame, so to add. There was also found in the poor guy body bullets from other weapon, so...

Great US army strikes again.

PS. it might all get unclear and hidden, but these guys was before the incident medicaly treated by US army and checked, so they did not pose any possible threat. Sadly, news like this did not seems to catch the soldier brains, so the "poor overscared US soldier", opccupating country thousads miles away from his country, shoot the guy.
There is also another examples of shooting innocent Iraqis "just because they pretend to be dead" and such things.

Comments under these pictures are IMHO pretty clear about what intelectual and moral trash the US army are:
http://homepage.mac.com/kaaawa/iblog...028/index.html

PS2: Whitewash in progress in other parts of war going pretty well:

yoda133113 · May 23, 2005, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trodas

Shoting unarmed enemy is murder, according to Geneva laws of war engagement. All other BS about it is simply BS and excuses. Lame, so to add. There was also found in the poor guy body bullets from other weapon, so...

Even when many unarmed enemies have later proven (after killing Americans) to be armed? What this soldier did was just fine, he shot someone that was a reasonable source of danger to him and his squad, it was only later that the man proved to be no threat.
The only reason this blew up like it did was because of the camera filming it and the American public's ignorance about warfare in Iraq.

Captn · May 24, 2005, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trodas

Shoting unarmed enemy is murder, according to Geneva laws of war engagement. All other BS about it is simply BS and excuses. Lame, so to add. There was also found in the poor guy body bullets from other weapon, so...

Great US army strikes again.

PS. it might all get unclear and hidden, but these guys was before the incident medicaly treated by US army and checked, so they did not pose any possible threat. Sadly, news like this did not seems to catch the soldier brains, so the "poor overscared US soldier", opccupating country thousads miles away from his country, shoot the guy.
There is also another examples of shooting innocent Iraqis "just because they pretend to be dead" and such things.

Comments under these pictures are IMHO pretty clear about what intelectual and moral trash the US army are:
http://homepage.mac.com/kaaawa/iblog...028/index.html

PS2: Whitewash in progress in other parts of war going pretty well:

trodas, WE dont care what YOU or any other 4th world country thinks.

Warpy · May 24, 2005, 02:50 AM

Close quarter combat, urban warfare and the day to day dealings with insurgents threatening every life in your squad if you’re seen and then a marine is witnessed engaging the enemy who claims to be unarmed.

With the constant pressure those guys are under, the stress later in life they will experience from their day to day tasks will be huge. The outcome is a good result, but to have put that Marine through more of a headache with the "Geneva Convention" BS it's pathetic.

I want to know who grassed him up.

raid517 · May 25, 2005, 06:25 PM

Well I wouldn't call Italy a '4th Word Country.' Far from it indeed. And they also believed the story about the marine's innocience. Indeed they believed it so much they pulled out of Iraq and out of the alliance. More than that they were so convinced with the denials that the Italian PM and a large segment of Italian society publically accused the American administration of talking complete and utter BS.

You know there comes a time when you have to ask if it is really possible that the entire rest of the world might be wrong - or whether now and then, occasionally it might actually (for a change) just be you.

There seems to be quite a lot of bad apples in the barrel that consitutes the US military - so much so indeed that when the recent news broke of further horror stories of torture and murder of the most brutal kind imaginable (this time in Afganistan) instigated by US forces, it barely even qualified as news. People it seems have simply come to accept that this is the way it is with you guys.

I find it very sad, as although feels like a long time ago now - I do seem to remember better times - and a better America. I wonder if it will ever be possible for those better times, and for that better America to return?

GJ

BD11goal · May 30, 2005, 06:45 AM

Ya know, stuff like this happened every day in pretty much every war. The problem today is the damned media. Not just in war, but everywhere. Its good sometimes, but other times it isn't. They should just leave the war alone its a damned war shit happens.

raid517 · May 31, 2005, 11:09 PM

So if there was ever a massacre committed by US forces, or images of torture even worse than those that came out of Abu Ghraib, the media simply shouldn't report it? Oh yes, I'm sure George W. and his pals would very much enjoy that.

GJ

Captn · Jun 1, 2005, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raid517

So if there was ever a massacre committed by US forces, or images of torture even worse than those that came out of Abu Ghraib, the media simply shouldn't report it? Oh yes, I'm sure George W. and his pals would very much enjoy that.

GJ

So its ok that the Islamo Fascists cut peoples heads off? WHY dont you see the media publishing that HUH! Or should I call them Hitler in a head scarf! As far as putting underwear on ones head, BIG DEAL! Are they still alive!!??! YES. Go cry somewhere else.....

raid517 · Jun 1, 2005, 05:20 AM

Mmm I have to say that this guy looks very alive. Parental Warning Don't Click if Under18 etc. He does look decidedly perky don't you think? Just like the guys on the news recently who were beaten to death in Afganistant too. Or maybe there was some slight comfusion between the commands to tickle information out of them using a feather duster and to cave their UnAmerican raghead skulls in with a baseball bat? (Not my choice of phrase I'm afraid - but it is one I have heard quite frequently from other Americans on similar forums - and is quite analogous to your own description). Maybe they put his uderpants on his head after they beat him to a bloody and lifeless pulp?

Anyway when did I say it was OK for anyone to chop someones head off - and what has this got to do with the media reporting war crimes on TV and in the press? They reported the beheadings didn't they? So why wouldn't it seem reasonable to you that they should report these kinds of abuses on your own side too?

In any case I'm glad you approve of torture, murder or and or other forms of brutality like this. I mean I assume you are happy with them, since you would rather silence the media and prevent them from reporting them? I'm pleased because it proves my point beyond all doubt with regard to exactly what kind of barbarians many people on the right in America have become.

I guess you will never get that the only real defining quality of a genuine civilisation is that we do not resort to using the same tactics as our enemy -if simply because this is the only way we have of defining whether or not we really are any better than them.

So far in the case of America's conduct in the Mid East and elsewhere, this does not appear to have proved to be the case at all.

By behaving like barbarians you become barbarians - why exactly is that a difficult concept for people like you to grasp?

Quote:

Go cry somewhere else.....

Lol I have 2,352 posts over just under 3 years 2,340+ of which are on the DH political and religious debate forum. I haven't run off crying anywhere yet. So what I wonder makes you think I'm likely to do so any time soon?

GJ

May 5, 2005, 07:19 PM	#1
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	Marine clear of Falujah shooting.. In a unanimouis decision, a court if inquiry has cleared a marine of all charges relating to the shooting of an IRAQI insurgent in Falujah. http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/05/fal...ine/index.html http[color=#232d35] http://www.kevinsites.net/2004_11_21...07420331292115[/color] __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

May 6, 2005, 07:02 AM	#7
TJ- DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Infinity Posts: 3,679 Rep Power: 0	well since the military is falling short of thier recuriting numbers, punishing this guy would make those "kids" think twice about joining an army that punishes you for doing your job. So i guess its all in the catagory of, "we cant punish him, then noone will want to go get our oil for us." Damn Government. __________________ new sig comming soon

May 6, 2005, 08:07 PM	Thread Starter #13
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	the key question and the one that ultimately got the charges dismissed were the "rules of engagement". It was a lawful act under the rules of engagement to counter threats with force when engaged, and the wounded as someone mentioned could have hidden explosive devices on their person or hidden a weapon under their torso or legs to use when the marine was sweeping the inside of the mosque. It has occured in the past, and perhaps will remain a threat, suicide bombers and gunmen will attempt to lure Marines and soldiers into situations where they will drop their guard and attempt to shoot or explode themselves. Ultimately a court of inquiry exhonorated the marine. I cannot say as much for the NBC camerman though, the film was released without permission __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

May 25, 2005, 06:25 PM	#21
raid517 DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,518 Rep Power: 0	Well I wouldn't call Italy a '4th Word Country.' Far from it indeed. And they also believed the story about the marine's innocience. Indeed they believed it so much they pulled out of Iraq and out of the alliance. More than that they were so convinced with the denials that the Italian PM and a large segment of Italian society publically accused the American administration of talking complete and utter BS. You know there comes a time when you have to ask if it is really possible that the entire rest of the world might be wrong - or whether now and then, occasionally it might actually (for a change) just be you. There seems to be quite a lot of bad apples in the barrel that consitutes the US military - so much so indeed that when the recent news broke of further horror stories of torture and murder of the most brutal kind imaginable (this time in Afganistan) instigated by US forces, it barely even qualified as news. People it seems have simply come to accept that this is the way it is with you guys. I find it very sad, as although feels like a long time ago now - I do seem to remember better times - and a better America. I wonder if it will ever be possible for those better times, and for that better America to return? GJ Last edited by raid517; May 26, 2005 at 01:59 AM.

May 5, 2005, 09:01 PM	#2
Vikingod Int'l Fish Liaison Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: By the light of lamp I sit and type... Posts: 16,197 Rep Power: 112 System Specs	good, IMO it was media BS. Its a damn war, can't punish a soldier for shooting the enemy. i saw the video, and in the same situation, I would have shot too.

May 5, 2005, 09:06 PM	#3
Dark Lord HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 5,945 Rep Power: 125 System Specs	the other big thing that the time was they were hideing explosives on the bodies of fallen insurgents and then blowing them up as the troops came through. at the time when this story first came out, the marine was afraid this was another one that was about ready to detonate on his squad.

May 5, 2005, 10:17 PM	#4
pr0digal jenius Delete Me Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 14,648 Rep Power: 0	yea, court marshalling guy for shooting the enemy is pretty lame.

May 5, 2005, 10:37 PM	#5
mkk Cthulhu/Dagon 2012 Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Gefle, Sweden Posts: 4,495 Rep Power: 132 System Specs	Uhh, I guess that's okay for everyone then.

May 6, 2005, 01:13 PM	#10
[hobo]eclipse ...just bummin 'round Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,907 Rep Power: 112 System Specs	thank god! that was so rediculas, glad its over 4 him and he can relax about all that. hEY cHEESE i notice yer runnin an ABIT A7N8X where can i get one of those and is the VDIMM any higher than 2.8?

May 12, 2005, 09:34 PM	#17
~~trodas~~ fanless WC Opty 3GHz Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Czech republic Posts: 349 Rep Power: 0	Shoting unarmed enemy is murder, according to Geneva laws of war engagement. All other BS about it is simply BS and excuses. Lame, so to add. There was also found in the poor guy body bullets from other weapon, so... Great US army strikes again. PS. it might all get unclear and hidden, but these guys was before the incident medicaly treated by US army and checked, so they did not pose any possible threat. Sadly, news like this did not seems to catch the soldier brains, so the "poor overscared US soldier", opccupating country thousads miles away from his country, shoot the guy. There is also another examples of shooting innocent Iraqis "just because they pretend to be dead" and such things. Comments under these pictures are IMHO pretty clear about what intelectual and moral trash the US army are: http://homepage.mac.com/kaaawa/iblog...028/index.html PS2: Whitewash in progress in other parts of war going pretty well:

May 24, 2005, 02:50 AM	#20
Warpy DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 2,761 Rep Power: 0	Close quarter combat, urban warfare and the day to day dealings with insurgents threatening every life in your squad if you’re seen and then a marine is witnessed engaging the enemy who claims to be unarmed. With the constant pressure those guys are under, the stress later in life they will experience from their day to day tasks will be huge. The outcome is a good result, but to have put that Marine through more of a headache with the "Geneva Convention" BS it's pathetic. I want to know who grassed him up.

May 30, 2005, 06:45 AM	#22
BD11goal DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 10 Rep Power: 0	Ya know, stuff like this happened every day in pretty much every war. The problem today is the damned media. Not just in war, but everywhere. Its good sometimes, but other times it isn't. They should just leave the war alone its a damned war shit happens.

May 31, 2005, 11:09 PM	#23
raid517 DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,518 Rep Power: 0	So if there was ever a massacre committed by US forces, or images of torture even worse than those that came out of Abu Ghraib, the media simply shouldn't report it? Oh yes, I'm sure George W. and his pals would very much enjoy that. GJ Last edited by raid517; Jun 1, 2005 at 12:14 AM.