mike2h

while i hate to fuel the fire, i beleive this article is basically true-
http://famulus.msnbc.com/famulusgen/...ts=62720050854

part of the problem is that exactly what the article stated, aside from mexico & the carribean americans tend not to travel to other countries. i think the 2 main reasons fo that are proximity & the fact that the US itself is so large that there is a lot to do & see right here. so i am not sure how/if the problem can be addresed.

please try really hard not make this another flame US fest if you choose to discuss this article.

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Zardon

"Polls over the last decade show most Americans believe 10 percent of the federal budget is spent on humanitarian and economic aid for the world's poor and that America gives more than any other country.
But the world's richest economy actually spends just over one half of 1 percent of its budget on aid to the world's poor, less per capita than every other wealthy nation."

''It's pathetic how low our aid budget is,'' said Harvard University economist Kenneth Rogoff. He noted that if Americans feel disconnected from African issues it is because ''the majority of Americans have never even been abroad.''


This is a very interesting point and i hope we can have some sensible discussion without it turning into a bitchfest as we can see from time to time in here.

Im not an american but I lived there (California) for a while and it amazed me at the time how many people I talked to knew so little about outside the states. Mike2h has a point, perhaps it is because the states is so large that many americans just cant be bothered travelling to other locations and have enough variety in their own country to keep them satisfied. I find that mentality personally a little bewildering - however id love to hear from some americans on this forum as to their views on travelling, the points in the editorial Mike2h posted and anything else relevant.

yoda133113

As someone that has travelled both here and abroad, I can honestly say it's nice both ways. But as far as people not wanting to go away, I can definately understand that, I know that my state alone (VA) has enough historical and resort stuff to last more than a few years of vacations alone. We have a VERY diverse amount of stuff here in america to go see (nice beaches and tropical stuff in Florida, Hawaii, and Southern Cal, To the historical stuff across the nation, especially in the east, to the awesome natural monuments like the Grand Canyon). FAR more stuff to see here in USA than could happen in one lifetime. I drove cross country 2 weeks took a 2 week cruise (alaska) and drove 2 weeks back (some in Canada), and I know that I didn't really get to see any of the MANY things we saw as well as I would have liked, and we skipped a lot of stuff that I would have loved to see, so I can definately understand how someone could want to vacation in US only. (Plus no monetary, language, visa, etc. problems that come from going elsewhere, and is generally cheaper).

On the other hand, having been to Brazil (that was AWESOME) I can see many reasons to go elsewhere. You get a different experience than ANYTHING in America (of course the same could be said of New York ). But that was far more expensive than any 2 week vacation I ever went to in America. There is a LOT to go see outside of the US also, but unless you just want to take a glance at everything, you aren't going to see it all.

I personally like both, but most of my future vacations will probably be in the US. And not trying to knock smaller countries, but most smaller countries can't compare as far as diversity of different types of vacation areas (however many of these countries are in close proximity to other countries and can go to them without much trouble, Europe comes to mind).

As far as aid spending, I'm rather glad that the aid budget is low, I don't feel that our government's job is to send money to foreign countries, it should be up to the people themselves. However there are a lot of civilian organizations (churches, Peace Corp, etc.) that send money and help across the world. So our government aid budget may be low, but much more money than that is sent accross the world from America, just most of it is from the civilian population, and not the official United States Government.

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Sandok

But when you do an average, the US popluation per person doesn't give that much at all. Sure, it comes to a big soum in the end cuz you guys are a hell of alot, but per person, the amount of money given for aid is tiny... I know that the swiss, which are just 7 million manage to give millions every year! That's not bad you know... (not the goverement, the people)

And yes the US (I lived there too) has alot to do but comon, it was always the same experience whereever I went. Wether it was Boston of California or Caroline or Florida or Nevada... The general feeling that you were in the same place existed. (oh and seeing 300 years of history about how people came on the mayflower is really not what I call history... It has to last longer! that's my POV)

Anyways, when I travel (and I love to travel), it's just different. From sweden to scotland, it's just so DIFFERENT. There is nothing in common and that makes the journey worth it. In the US, I always felt an air of well, deja vu... Nothing new, just the fundamental same thing in new clothes. Going to different countries, hearing different languages, seeing different cultures, etc., that's what makes voyaging worth it.

Americains got it tough cuz they have canada (not THAT different from the US for many...) and mexico where almost no one goes for anything but college wierdo parties... We in europe, in 2 hours drive can be in a new country and that helps!

mike2h

actually if you are familiar enough with america you know that different areas have different lifestyles. the differences are minor in most cases, but major in some.
i am with you 100% on experiencing different cultures/languages. me & my wife have a couple of long term overseas trips planned & several short term trips.


that is basically the biggest problem. crossing the pacific or atlantic is a major trip. & expensive. south america is closer(i really want to go to patagonia) but still a considerable distance. it takes a whole lot more than a long drive & a ferry trip to go somewhere. i beleive if you look at the distance traveled americans & europeans probably travel about the same, maybe with an edge going to americans. i have been to florida 2x to visit my daughter, that is a 6,000+ mile round trip. going down to LA/san diego to visit my sister is a 1,000 mile round trip & i live in the same state! and beleive me, while the culture is basically the same, the lifestyle in both cases definetly is not.

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Sandok

So money is important I guess... Money and time!

Well you know, if ther americains don't want to travel, nobody can make em... They won't change anyways and they'll always prefer their own country than the world...

I don't blame you guys, I just hate it when you think the rest of the world is probably a barbairain waste land when most of the americains I know have NEVER gone out of their country... (let alone their state)

mike2h

when who thinks what? i think you are making some very broad generalisations there.

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Sandok

Well from the people I've met when I lived there (conneticut) and from the different forums throughout the internet, that's the general feeling you guys give to me...

mike2h

you guys? you really like to lump people into groups dont you(i am assuming that you mean US pop, not us specific if i am wrong ignore this part). you base your view on talking to people in various forums, which, given the demographics of most forum users is not really a good way to base a viewpoint of a whole country. especially on an issue that requires lots of $$. & living for however long you lived in conneticut does not really give you a broad view either, now does it?
i happen to know a lot of people who have traveled to other countries(outside of carib/can/mexico). & a whole lot more who would like to but can not afford to. while i agree there is a lot of people who do not want to travel abroad, for whatever reason(do not understand that either), i do not beleive this is excusivley a us issue. if you were able to compare ratio of populations i think you will find the same thing happening in every other wealthy country.

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radTube

I agree that if Americans do travel less outside of their own borders, this might have more to do with money than will. But whatever the reason, this could indicate that a US citizen generally hasn't experienced as many foreign cultures than someone from let's say Europe. I haven't been able to travel much due to being something less than wealthy, but I've still been to a few countries with very different cultures and customs. My wife's visited more than ten different countries in Europe, northern Africa and western Asia, and her family isn't much wealthier than mine.

mike2h, as you said, this is probably not specifically a US issue, but I do think that ultimately the main culprit could be geography rather than wealth. I can cross the closest border in a couple of minutes (legally and hassle-free), and that's if I walk . I can reach a couple of other countries if I drive for a few hours and I live in a remote part of Europe.

Don't know but it seems plausible that this might have an effect on not only the amount of aid but attitudes towards foreign countries in general.

Gabriel_Etranil

I have a problem with all this give money, or your not doing enough in the world. It goes back to the saying "Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime".

The poor countries dept comes from centuries of 'modern' countries going out constantly 'modernizing' lesser nations. Country's that were/have been thrown from the "Dark Ages" into whatever modern age at the time lack the neccesary learning experiences that led up to the advancements of ages. This was in my/others opinions the initial cause of many of these problems. Giving country's shortcuts by giving them money to fix these 'issues' is not the solution but since it is modern society's fault for the upset in the balance of these cultures, it is our responsibility to do something. Throwing money into broke county's is not going to solve problems that have been steming for century's.

You don't keep throwing water into a hole filled bucket do you? Throwing money hoping to have it just go away if we give enough is not going to solve anything. The world is broke and money is not going to fix it, more people need to see this and work on fixing the system rather then trying to drown it out with money drives.

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Zardon

Id love to get some accurate statistics of the percentage of USA citizens who have not travelled outside the states and whether this is just something that has came from word of mouth across the years. Its hard to get an accurate consensus, especially from forums or one specific part of the states which seems to be the commentary being made here.

I will say however from my (limited) experience in california, id rate the percentage as very low.

mike2h

great points! the ability to easily/semi easily travel from one country to another is a definite plus for eurasia(for want of a better term). i also agree this has an affect on most peoples world view.

zardon- i would like some real statistics to.
from my experience i would have to disagree with you. i just know too many people that have traveled overseas & too many others that want to, but is not something that is viable for them. maybe it is the particular type of people i hang around(birs of a feather..) & the type of place i work(hospital)., do not know. i do know that our planned trip to the british isles(ext stay) is going to cost us $12-15,000. & over 12,000 miles of travel wich is very tedious. i also believe it will be well worth it.
i think some of you are being a little narrow in your view to. the amount of americans that go to mexico & the carribean is staggering. because it is much easier & cheaper.

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yoda133113

I agree with the desire for statistics, and to be honest I don't know whether to say you're wrong or not, I live in south eastern VA, which is the largest military area (population wise) in the world, and both of my parents came from military families, so most of my friends and family have gone elsewhere in the world, some extensivly. On the other hand my grandfather's family hasn't left the general area where he grew up more than like once, (just giving an extreme). So there is a diverse amount of people some who travel, and some who don't.

As far as people being the same, I definately have to dissagree with you, but from the outside looking in, it could look that way, and sandok, unless you lived here for a LONG time you were definatly looking in from the outside. Just like I would be in many other countries.

Mike2h, mexico and the carribean don't count, the resort areas there have basically become Americanized to satisfy the incoming tourists and that is where the people go when they go down there. Just like going to Canada doesn't count because for the most part we don't see much of a change of culture in going there.

The remarkably easy travel is exactly what I'm talking about as far as why many of us don't go elsewhere, the same drive that i make from here to Ohio to see my grandmother is farthur than most have to travel to another country in Europe.

I would like to hear info from other large countries about how much they travel out of their country.

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digerati

I'm in a rather poor bracket and I've never traveled outside of the US and Mexico. My quasi-ex has traveled to China, the carribean, England, and all sorts of places, but she is also much better off than me financially.

My cousins have traveled all over Europe, the carribean, Mexico, Brazil, the middle east and they're loaded with money. They all got cars for their 15th birthdays when they weren't even legally allowed to drive.

So yes I think it's a money thing. I can travel from California to New York for $173 if I book in advance and have before. I could never spend that little amount of money traveling anywhere else.

mike2h

not sure what part of mexico/caribe you have been to but it is only 'americanised' if you stay in the resort. wich i think would be foolish of anybody. i wouild agree that traveling to a resort in another country & just staying there does not count. also, us citizens are not the only ones that use the thousands of resorts worldwide.
agree with the rest of your post.

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yoda133113

Thta's exactly what I meant, but most of the Americans running to those countries are going to the resorts, not really going elsewhere.

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mike2h

unfortunately, you may be correct. i think this also applies to anybody worlwide that makes use of resorts.

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Sandok

What you want me to do, not generalise? You can't talk about a population on taking all the different cases. You gotta make a general summary. It's the only way to truely show something. Sure soem travel, some don't, etc. But there is a GENERAL message or general feeling and stuff. You have to take things into a bigger picture! And I base my views on my old neighbourhood in the US where 100% of the peopel never left the country (we were about 15 familys at the time...). That was just freaky.

Here in my country, switzerland, you'll almost never find somebody who hasn't travelled abroad (at least in swiss romand) and in my neighbourhood here, 100% have gone elsewhere... And Switzerland is a wealthy country too mate

mike2h

you base your views on 15 familys? you realise there is 250,000,000+ in the us.
i do have to agree with it being a liitle weird though

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yoda133113

Actually that's the problem, you can't really generallize Americans. As someone who has been all over America, I can tell you people in New York are very diferent from people from Florida, from people in South Cal, etc. With as large and spread out as we are, there is more diversity of opinions here than most countries (I would be willing to bet that the same is true in many other large countries) so you really can't just generalize about all Americans, but many people do when talking about Americans.

Dude, Switzerland is awesome!!! I wish in some ways that America would go back to modelling ourselves after the Swiss (like they did when we were formed)

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Sandok

But then arguements go on forever since you take up each and every little difference into perspective. I've been all over the US too and sure the people are slightly different but they are still american... And they all have common traits.



I don't think that will happen but would be cool!

mike2h

and
not quite clear. did you live in conteticut for a period of tme or were your all over the us ? is your direct experience more than the 15 families you said you associated with?
it would be nice to know so your opinions could be properly evaluated.

if you had actually travelled all over the us & were really interacting with people then you would know that there are some huge differences in some areas. i do agree that a lot of the country is pretty much the same- small variations, but there are places were lifestyle is way different. some of the differences are climate based but the major ones are were you have concentrations of specific cultures. & please do not forget native americans.
Australia has the same thing to a lesser degree. it is the upside to be being colonised by other countries.

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nitrousoxide52

Well... I've gone to Canada, does that count? So tick on .0000000000000000000001% for me

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mike2h

do not know why it would not. canada their own lifestyle/culture and has many regional differences just like the us(&for the same reasons).
shouldnt it be .00000000000000000001%?

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Sandok

I lived in conneticut for a long time and travelled over the US alot, meeting tons of people (during vacations and meeting friends of friends etc..) And yes, there are huge exceptions but you can't take them into account since they are a tiny minority. I'm not saying they don't exist, I'm just saying that I am not taking them in accout cuz they are as I said, exceptions.

And when I lived in the US, I had the gerneal feeling that people didn't care about the rest of the world. They'd rather stay in the US and travel than go abroad and not for money reasons but just that it would be "boring" according to many... Not everyone is like that but from the REAL people I met, the US was the best and they never needed to leave it to do anything. That's what they usually told me... Or sorta gave the feeling of.

The_Neon_Cowboy

I'm going to bite my lip here as i'd absolutely start a flame war. Many points here were already aregued in the past threads. wonder why a reuters artical is on msnbc
only less then 9% travel over seas far more travel to canada and mexico that we
share a border with. over seas travel is very very expensive...

As for tsnumi aid we only gave in total more then anyone else when all has been said
and done but that not good enough becouse of our high population and economy...
But I guess you rather americans be taxed to death to make you happy huh?

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Sandok

I travel over seas a hell of a lot as well as most swiss... I mean, so many people here in Europe travel overseas! Why can't the americans who got bigger wallets than all of us do it?

And show me numbers you gave more Neon cuz till then, I'm skeptic.

raid517

Speaking of the tsunami, did you know that so far only something like 3% of the aid promised by the US to help in the disaster fund has actually been delivered? There are a few other countries too, like Autralia and Saudi Arabia that promised money - but which didn't pay up in the end. The UK faired better in this in that it has so far paid something like 96% of the money it promised (which was almost equivalent to all of the aid promised by the US), closely followed by France 92%, Holland 89% and Germany 78%.

Oh well at least America isn't alone in this, apparently it's common practice for there to be 'aid bidding wars' after disasters like these, only for very little of that aid to materialise after the publicity dies down.

GJ