SFOSOK

Should people complain if they can't do shit about it?



Chances are most of us are stubborn as hell when it comes to politics ( cause we are right, and its everyone else who is wrong)




Just don't understand the whole bitching and complaining part about it. It's always goin to be the same things over and over again.




I recommend not registering to vote any more, cause it really doesn't make a difference anyway.

I just gave up on democracy recently because no government is really that fair if you think about it. And all ppl are goin to do is whine about it for their whole entire lives, manipulating their children into being exactly like them.

When I get kids I'm just gunna say you know what? If you want to vote, vote, if you don't, don't.







People make way too big of a deal out of something they can't change.




Also I believe the school system should have mandatory study of the bible somewhere in high school. Because even if you don't like it, its the best refrence for morals, raising kids, and well life in general.





Why shouldn't something that is considered one of the greatest literary pieces in the world be studied by all children?




I'm just wondering. I still am thinking about the seperation from church and state thing we got. Sure it makes sense for equality. but this country was founded on Christian principles, Though I do see why we shouldn't impose our religion on everyone else. I dunno, but I think the system has withdrawn so far away from the bible that it will soon go completely against it to make ppl happy.


O well, tell me what you think. I'm willing to consider your point if its not bitching and complaining. I'm just confused bout the religion and government thing.

AttroPheed

regarding the bitching on forums as a way to change the world: yes rather pointless, but a good way to kill some time and piss people off with impunity. and i'd agree that voting is a waste of time. people that let their TV control their lives will always vote and win at any election while people that think for themselves seem to be in rather short supply. that and any real 'contender' for any sort of office has to be a religious, money grubbing puppet or he\she wont get elected.


regarding the religion in school stuff: religion does far more to give people excuses to be assholes to each other than it does to give them morals. where it does give them morals they are so incredibly twisted by all the inconsistencies and rhetoric involved that again it does more harm than good. (radical prolifers and terrorists) Controlling a person with shame, guilt, and fear is, at least i would think, an antiquated notion anyway. With no 'god' to forgive your every 'sin' you have only yourself to blame and only yourself to answer to. why dont we teach people to take responsibillity for their actions in our schools instead of pushing everything off on their imaginary friend jesus.

As humans most of us can write off magic and santa clause and bigfoot and the paranormal because it doesnt make sense logically. We dont need to see that its bullshit because it so clearly is. But when it comes to religion logic simply doesn't apply. even staring a 65 million year old dinosaur skeleton in the face a creationist still has a 'yeah, but..'

What the mob once learned to believe without reasons—who could overthrow that with reasons?
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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SexPistoL

What..........Santa isn't real!!!!!

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Đamage™

No PistoL he isn't.. and either is the Easter bunny rabbit.. and "I'm your father SexPistoL!!"

Peace.. lol

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SexPistoL

That's it..............I'm OFF !

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SexPistoL

Hey people did he realy mean it........is Santa not real or what ?

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SFOSOK

in response to attro, I think you need to meet some nice christians, may change your point of view a little bit. I mean, my mother used to be like one of those everything is satan christians, but as she got older she just started trusting in God, so I'm just trying to trust in him now.

Most religious leaders complain too much, but thats what they are paid to do, so u can't blame them for makin a livin and feeding their family.

SFOSOK

Also

FYI

Almost every Christian holiday is on a pagan holiday

The Christmas tree tradition was taken from a pagan ritual where they would find a large oak tree and put candles in it to signal where their orgy was taking place.




Religion has its flawes, just don't try to impose your beliefs on others.

AttroPheed

you're not understanding or i lack the ability to translate the crazy shit that's in my head (more likely). i dont really give a crap what a person believes (even santa claus ) and neither should the state. and the question of forcing christianity on children in our schools and on the people of our supposedly free land should be a dead issue.

a 2 thousand year old book that's been tampered with and reinterpreted by every person thats touched it is what america is based on sure. but americans came to this country to be free of a state where the king's view of this book was forced on them.

if the seperation of church and state were abolished tomorrow we'd have a million different people 'complaining' in the streets about what parts and what interpretation of these parts should be taught or enforced. and the political parties full of those 'complaining' people you hate so much would spring up overnight. not to mention the people that arent christians (buddhists, jewish, etc) who would then be forced to try to get elected so they could try to have their religion pushed on people including yourself. there is no king anymore to decide for us and the pope forgives little boy raping priests so do we want him deciding our laws?

i'm not saying dont believe in god or allah or whatever. i'm saying we should let people decide for themselves what they want. that is the essence of what this country was founded on and why people will always fight for it. A person's religion should have no bearing on what we think of them as a person or on state matters. there are plenty of christian schools on up thru the college level anyway.


PS starting a thread about pushing your beliefs on america's children and then telling people not to impede on your beliefs when they reply is a little silly isn't it?

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quanta67

The problem with God is he was never elected - nor were the majority of people who claim to speak for him.

Pompey

Voting is not pointless, the system will fail to function when people like you start believing it is. There are millions of others out there with their own opinions and with an equal right to voice it which is why sometimes it wont go your way.

I agree with attro on the subject of religion in schools. Schools are there to educate people, teaching the bible would go against this basic principle. It has no basis in fact.
My mother was a catholic, my father an atheist and he made sure we were never baptised, we didn’t read the bible and never went to church. His stance was that if we later chose to follow a particular religion that was fine but he would not allow it to be forced upon us. Neither my brother nor me have ever been arrested or even suspended. Religion is not needed to teach morals, many of the 'morals' taught by the various religions are intolerant. If (god forbid lol) I ever have children Tolerance, respect and honesty will form the backbone of their 'moral education' no religion involved.

I am a strong believer in secularism. Theocracy has an uncanny tendency to result in witch-hunts, oppression and war, regardless of the religion or 'good intentions' of the people. The fact is, secularism works, it has proven itself. Theocracy is backwards, accepting it and upholding it because our ancestors did it is like us all driving model T fords for the sake of tradition.

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SFOSOK

I see your point guys but the thing is, why take out the single best literary example any language has produced to date from the early learning process?

AttroPheed

this is essentially what you asked the first time.

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SFOSOK

well, thats because it makes sense. just trying to get u to c that

AttroPheed

ah. well done then.

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The_Neon_Cowboy

wow this thread is all over the place

BTW: you NOT supposed to Cuss in thread titles

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SFOSOK

on the moon too

quanta67

Ad just hw many 'other' great works of literature have you read to compare it to?

I'm afraid your belief that it is to be regarded as one of the greatest works ever written is a tad one sided and distorted. I don't think you will find too many literary sorts aguing that the Bible was a particularly notable work of classical literature.

It contains some interesting poetry in parts - but mostly it is just garbled, contradictory and incoherant nonsesne.

Of course if you were a believer with very little else to compare it to, it might seem like a great book to you. But that is certainly not how it seems to everyone.

Mazuko

As a professional educator in the great state of Michigan (History teacher) I wanted to comment on the remark about mandatory inclusion of biblical teachings in the public school system.

If you were to take a look at almost ANY modern WORLD HISTORY text book approved by public school boards for use in the class room, you would see that each of the major religions has AT LEAST 1-3 chapters dedicated to them. We are REQUIRED to teach them to our students. Students ARE exposed to these texts, albeit in an indirect fashion in some instances however we are required by state teaching guidelines to include certain aspects in our students educational process.

From the perspective of a HISTORIAN, the Bible is actually a treasure trove of historical data about previous events and situations. You can even tell when passages were added to the bible by how "God" is referenced. AKA: "The Lord", "God", "god", etc.

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Pompey

Studying the origins of the bible, and how Constantine used Christianity as a tool to gain power would be a good unit in my opinion. Much of the bible is a collection of myths and legends. Studying the origins and comparing it with the Qu'ran and other holy texts from around the world should be included in the curriculum, religion has played an important role in history. If students actually studied religion and were not just told 'this is what god said' then that would be fine.

Also you need to be careful when using the bible as a historical source, It wasn't written in a time when people were particularly concerned with historical accuracy.

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AttroPheed

or reality

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Mazuko

When using any particular work as a historical source one does not always need to take into consideration accuracy of the work.

Take for instance oral tradition. Otherwise known as stories passed down by word of mouth by "story tellers" or the "history of the clans" or whatever. Myths are part of history, we are forced to learn about certain authors and the effects their writings had on history (Thomas Paynes "Common Sense" rings a bell). Remember language arts class? Take into consideration how similar writing a "paper" is in that class to writing a paper in a history class room.

When constructing a portrait of the past one is not simply restricted to "accurate" historical documents. Why do I say this? Well remember the old quote "History is written by the victors." It always stood true until the dawn of the information age. Now we historians take into consideration numerous sources of information in order to extract the "history" of a particular time period or event.

Just to give you another example. The book titled "Wuthering Heights" by Emily Bronte. This is a book of fiction yes? (Yes it is actually for those of you that are not familiar with it.) However doesn't the book actually tell, in quite a good amount of detail, what life was like for certain people, men and women, in the Victorian Age (the time period the book was written.)?

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SFOSOK

Good that you guys have gotten into deep thought to either prove or disprove your beliefs. Good no flaming also, but that was mostly my opinion. I don't have a problem with how things are condusted now, but I just believe it would be more productive to include into a childs education. Because sadly most parents now adays don't look to the bible for answer nor suggest their children to do the same. But I understand where the public school education is coming from. Though how come a book that says nigger quiet a few times (Huck Finn) is required reading material. But the bible is seen as too touchy of a subject to go to. Kinda weird world where the bible is considered more racey than Huck Finn, also I think just recently a little black girl fought to make it not required reading material.

quanta67

Well you might call it a 'treasure trove of history' (although much of it's historical accuracy is very open to debate) but i doubt that you could call it a 'treasure trove' of literature. It is generally only referred to as 'one of the greatest books ever written' by those who lack anything in their reading lives that they can compare it to. In the old days the poor, the ignorant and the uneducated were taught to read using the Bible. Sadly in many ways I don't think all that much has changed through the years.

GJ

SFOSOK

Lack of reading? well its good to know you group anyone who thinks the bible is a great literary piece as an illiterate moron. Thanks!


Thats like me saying if you have never read the bible you are a dumb head. At least try to be open to things other than what you have been forced to believe your whole life.

SFOSOK

Yay for Jesus!

AttroPheed

very interesting advice.

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"A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence." - David Hume
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quanta67

I have read the Bible thanks - and several other religeous texts too for that matter, most of which I'm sure you will never even have heard of. But if we are making comparisions purely on literay terms, I would say I prefer the Bhagavad_Gita for it's sheer poety, insight and depth passion. But overall I have to say I found them all to be pretty meaningless at the end of the day.

Indeed. Because as I seem to recall it I was brought up in a really quite strict presbyterian evironment - both at home and at school - where I was constantly reminded that if I didn't submit to the will of God, I would surely burn in hell for all eternity, where also if I so much as had one wrong thought I would be eternally doomed and where even things such as smiling and singing were seen as decadent and sinful. I also remember many beatings in early youth for no particularly good reason, other than being told that mankind (and I) was a particularly sinful creature - and that I needed to be punished regularly in youth in order to beat that sinfulness out of me. So if anyone has been forced to believe anything - I think it is clear exactly who that is. I chose not to believe, because I finally realised how ridiculous it was to have such a vein, vengful and insecure God, that he needed to try to scare people (who are grown adults after all) into believing in him - rather than make any effort at all to try to pursuade them. If you want religion taught in schools, why not give equal prominance to all religions - and why not give people equal access to aternative explanations of how we all came to be here too - such as those provided by science - and then just let people make up their own minds? Or do you think a God who forbids people to even study what the alternatives are, is a very reasonable God? Where then is the role of free will, where you have to choose him, if you are to ever hope to be saved? Why in other words should Christianity have any more prominance in schools than any other religion - or any other subject for that matter?

A God who tries to scare people into believing in him just does not seem like a very rational or worthwhile thing to go around believing in. Particularly now that I am no longer a child. 'Believe in me and I will make things easy for you' - don't believe in me and you will burn in hell.' It sounds a bit too much like someone is trying to put a gun to my head. I don't let other people bully me, so what is so special about God? Why should he (or it) be excluded?

SFOSOK

lol, I wasn't attacking you guys, I was just giving an example. Read it a little more carefully next time. thanks

quanta67

I think we did read - but I think we just disagreed.