Pedophile Priests - Mature Content

TJ- · Sep 23, 2005, 11:27 AM

These are the kinds of things that Archdiocese priests did to children:

• A girl, 11 years old, was raped by her priest and became pregnant. The Father took her in for an abortion.

• A 5th-grader was molested by her priest inside the confessional booth.

• A teenage girl was groped by her priest while she lay immobilized in traction in a hospital bed. The priest stopped only when the girl was able to ring for a nurse.

• A boy was repeatedly molested in his own school auditorium, where his priest/teacher bent the boy over and rubbed his genitals against the boy until the priest ejaculated.

• A priest, no longer satisfied with mere pederasty, regularly began forcing sex on two boys at once in his bed.

• A boy woke up intoxicated in a priest’s bed to find the Father sucking on his penis while three other priests watched and masturbated themselves.

• A priest offered money to boys in exchange for sadomasochism – directing them to place him in bondage, to “break” him, to make him their “slave,” and to defecate so that he could lick excrement from them.

• A 12-year-old, who was raped and sodomized by his priest, tried to commit suicide, and remains institutionalized in a mental hospital as an adult.

• A priest told a 12-year-old boy that his mother knew of and had agreed to the priest’s repeated rape of her son.

• A boy who told his father about the abuse his younger brother was suffering was beaten to the point of unconsciousness. “Priests don’t do that,” said the father as he punished his son for what he thought was a vicious lie against the clergy.

The Grand Jury Report

Confession Anyone?

TJ- · Sep 23, 2005, 11:30 AM

Just letting people know the truth mods... Delete if you want to hide the truth...

**dj_stick** · Sep 23, 2005, 01:02 PM

if this thread IS deleted it won't be to hide the truth, it will be to shield the younger members of the site here from the disturbing content

as it stands i am willing to let this discussion continue for the time being

Dark Lord · Sep 23, 2005, 01:14 PM

itll turn into a flame war, i can tell you that much. it also holds truth in it too.

TJ- · Sep 23, 2005, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by another-user

itll turn into a flame war, i can tell you that much. it also holds truth in it too.

Of course it holds truth, its a report from the First Judicial District of Pennsylvania - Criminal Trial Division. That PDF is a court document.

Aint religion and god a beautiful thing...

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj_stick

it will be to shield the younger members of the site here from the disturbing content

they should know the truth, and what is being hidden from them. Would you want your child to be one of the victems?

AttroPheed · Sep 23, 2005, 01:49 PM

I don't think there could be a flame war because it would mean you're taking the side of child rapists. Believers kinda just have to ignore this one I guess. Or delete it.

br00ksintexas · Sep 23, 2005, 02:06 PM

While I agree that the report is the truth, Zion, I disagree that it's because of" Religion and GOD being a beautiful thing". I've personally seen no where in the bible where it says for preists to become pedophiles. Have you seen it? If so, please pass the scripture on to the rest of us. I wonder if anyone out there has ever researched the number of clergy ( of any and all faiths) vs. the number of those prosecuted or even accused of sex crimes.I for one would welcome those findings, as I'm somewhat curious about the ratio.

Also, I'd like to point out, that I doubt anyone on this board, religious or not, wouldn't know about situations like these, if they even half-way follow the local and national news. It's hardly groundbreaking reporting at this point.
And Attro, if you weren't so bitter towards religious folk, you wouldn't always ASSume they'd disbelieve anything that was negative about the clergy. People from all walks become clergy of all faiths. Wouldn't it be likely for sexual predators to hide in the cloth just as they hide in society in general? Or, does someone being in the clergy mean they're more likely to be a pedophile instead of a normal human being?

I know I'm religious. I've yet to say anything negative about any of the facts posted about religion or religious people, whether in support or opposition of religion. Why do non-religious folk on this board choose to bring in their own opinionated negativity, when the facts they post, like the one's we see here this morning, speak for themself without the added b.s.

Peace

swimtech · Sep 23, 2005, 03:29 PM

Threre's sick minded people everywhere, including those who make their living in the church...

mkk · Sep 23, 2005, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [zi0n]aXe

These are the kinds of things that Archdiocese priests did to children:

And there is a point in this somewhere?

AttroPheed · Sep 23, 2005, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by br00ksintexas

And Attro, if you weren't so bitter towards religious folk, you wouldn't always ASSume they'd disbelieve anything that was negative about the clergy.

wha??

Quote:

Originally Posted by swimtech

Threre's sick minded people everywhere, including those who make their living in the church...

Well 'god' is everywhere, why doesnt He stop it instead of just watching? He can't even stop something happening in a church? Or with his infinite wisdom and power just make child rape not exist at all? If anything, by allowing it to exist and allowing it to take place in his own home, God is in favor of child rape. If a mother knowingly allows her child to be raped it's criminal negligence but if god does it, it's all part of a 'grand plan'.

AttroPheed · Sep 23, 2005, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkk

And there is a point in this somewhere?

How about: "priest's shouldnt rape kids"?

swimtech · Sep 23, 2005, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AttroPheed

wha??

Well 'god' is everywhere, why doesnt He stop it instead of just watching? He can't even stop something happening in a church? Or with his infinite wisdom and power just make child rape not exist at all? If anything, by allowing it to exist and allowing it to take place in his own home, God is in favor of child rape. If a mother knowingly allows her child to be raped it's criminal negligence but if god does it, it's all part of a 'grand plan'.

Realistically, God is not doing it - people are - come on... The Lord has set the rules - it's up to us to obey them - or not...

Your statement that God is in favor of child rape because of any circumstance or because He chooses to use, or not use, His influence or power is your opinion. I disagree that God is in favor of child rape, but he obvioiusly does choose to allow people to do that - terrible though those people's actions are. I don't know why...

SFOSOK · Sep 23, 2005, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AttroPheed

How about: "priest's shouldnt rape kids"?

How bout no one should rape kids.

Edit: Or anyone for that matter

AttroPheed · Sep 23, 2005, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFOSOK

How bout no one should rape kids.

Edit: Or anyone for that matter

I assumed he was only defending them because they were priests. I didn't want to infer that he was perhaps in favor of all child rape.

Quote:

Originally Posted by swimfan

I don't know why...

We'll the bible seems to make no mention of it so I suppose it's fine.

mike2h · Sep 23, 2005, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Well 'god' is everywhere, why doesnt He stop it instead of just watching? He can't even stop something happening in a church? Or with his infinite wisdom and power just make child rape not exist at all? If anything, by allowing it to exist and allowing it to take place in his own home, God is in favor of child rape. If a mother knowingly allows her child to be raped it's criminal negligence but if god does it, it's all part of a 'grand plan'.

before making such uninformed statements do some research. your are entitled ot your opinion, but if you are going to have one like that & state it publically you should base it on some sort of fact & not your gut reaction.
you will find in almost all religions that we are basically put here to make choices- good or bad. according to how you worship, god has given guidlines through various texts. it is up to us as to how we do/dont follow these guidlines. it basically comes down to our use of free choice. this is what it has always been about. the choices you make have consequences now & later. if, as you want, free choice is taken away there is no reason to be here. period.
your belief that things like this are gods fault is one of the larger religous based fallacies floating around out there. while it is understandable, & something that i have felt myself, it is just not part of the big picture. we have to be able to make our choices & be judged by them.
I also beleive that there will be someting especially nasty in the afterlife waiting for priests/clerics/etc that use their position in such a way.

pr0digal jenius · Sep 23, 2005, 06:36 PM

first off, kudos for the interesting conversation. keep it clean, and we'll keep it open...start whinging, and we'll do otherwise.

"why doesn't god do something"
Why doesn't god give everyone enough food to eat? Why doesn't god keep crimes from happening? Why...why....why

BECAUSE:
-We are not automatons....we were given free will
-God set everything in motion, this does NOT mean he actively partakes in everything

AttroPheed · Sep 23, 2005, 06:39 PM

So then what's the deal with prayer? Why ask for anything if you get nothing?

mike2h · Sep 23, 2005, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AttroPheed

So then what's the deal with prayer? Why ask for anything if you get nothing?

who says you get nothing? sometimes it is just a comfort & sometimes they are answered. i can personally vouch for this.
you sound like you want a god who makes all your decisions for you & corrects all your mistakes & makes everything wrong in your life right.
if this was true, what would be your purpose?
once you have children you should be able to answer this question for yourself.

AttroPheed · Sep 23, 2005, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike2h

before making such uninformed statements do some research. your are entitled ot your opinion, but if you are going to have one like that & state it publically you should base it on some sort of fact & not your gut reaction.

Aren't questions research? I expected these theories to be shot down because there must be some sort of system in place to excuse an absolute power wielding god from sitting idly by. i guess the answer to my question is as follows:

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike2h

you will find in almost all religions that we are basically put here to make choices- good or bad. according to how you worship, god has given guidlines through various texts. it is up to us as to how we do/dont follow these guidlines. it basically comes down to our use of free choice. this is what it has always been about. the choices you make have consequences now & later. if, as you want, free choice is taken away there is no reason to be here. period.

Very convenient. If even the teachers of the superstition have trouble with it you can see where I went wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike2h

your belief that things like this are gods fault is one of the larger religous based fallacies floating around out there.

Actually my belief is that god doesn't exist. This would be why he doesn't do anything. As for 'religious based fallacy', well, is there 'religious based fact'? At it's best organized religion is sophistical nonsense meant to scare people into being 'good' with superstition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike2h

while it is understandable, & something that i have felt myself, it is just not part of the big picture.

That voice you hear is rationality. It's not part of the big picture because faith requires that you ignore it.

mike2h · Sep 23, 2005, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Aren't questions research? I expected these theories to be shot down because there must be some sort of system in place to excuse an absolute power wielding god from sitting idly by. i guess the answer to my question is as follows:

yes & no. if you were truly interested in learning something you would go talk to people that teach/research religion. instead of coming to an internet sire with the name of 'driverheaven'. you would also spend the time yourself researching your questions instead of expecting somebody else to do your work for you.
90% of religion is faith based. arguing that point is a waste of time. you either have faith that there is a higher being guiding us or you dont. you either learn through life experiences that is some things happens for a reason & some dont, or you dont. you believe there is an after life & a reward/punishment system for all our choices or you dont. i am not here to change your mind either way. but if your disbelief of god is based on the fact that you think he should be constantly interfering in our lives & righting all the wrongs we, as free willed beings make, then you truly have no concept of why we are here as related to religion.
bty, were, exactly does god stepping in & taking away our choices/free will end? just priest molesters? all molesters? how about mass murders? drunk drivers? theives? people that cheat on their home work? people who cheat on their spouses? jaywalkers? once you start, were does it end. what about people like yourself that do not believe in god. would you like that choice taken from you?

AttroPheed · Sep 23, 2005, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike2h

yes & no. if you were truly interested in learning something you would go talk to people that teach/research religion. instead of coming to an internet sire with the name of 'driverheaven'. you would also spend the time yourself researching your questions instead of expecting somebody else to do your work for you.

Actually I know plenty about how religion works as I grew up with it and as an american was surrounded by it. (You don't just wake up one day as an atheist.) I'm actually only asking questions to point out the convenience of religion's contrived, elementary answers. I read about religion quite a bit even now because the concept fascinates me to no end. I learned a great deal about creationism, intelligent design and other general stuff in an earlier thread here at driverheaven. Not from my opponents mind you but from researching their argument for them because they were obviously unwilling to do so for themselves. The reason I keep coming back to driverheaven is because I'm a member of about a dozen forums but driverheaven is far and away the most religious. It's a chance for me to be around people that I wouldn't normally get to be around and get the latest tech news.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike2h

90% of religion is faith based.

And the other 10%? Rationalization?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike2h

bty, were, exactly does god stepping in & taking away our choices/free will end? just priest molesters? all molesters? how about mass murders? drunk drivers? theives? people that cheat on their home work? people who cheat on their spouses? jaywalkers? once you start, were does it end. what about people like yourself that do not believe in god. would you like that choice taken from you?

Actually I think humanity is the answer to humanity's problems. "God" is just an excuse to not care.

mike2h · Sep 24, 2005, 12:17 AM

Quote:

And the other 10%? Rationalization?

no, belief in what you see & experience around you & in your personal life.

Quote:

Actually I think humanity is the answer to humanity's problems. "God" is just an excuse to not care.

i agree with the 1st part of your statement. we create our own problems & we fix our own problems. people get stronger by overcoming adversity, not by bowing down to it. whatever means they use, religous or otherwise, it is what brings humanity as whole together for a common good.
your 2nd part is about as wrong as you can get. true belief in a religous system is what helps people to care & to unite in teir caring for other people. it gives them tools to work with that might have not otherwise been available to them.
not sure what to tell you you seem to have a negative view about life in general. you do not believe in god but blame in for our mistakes. if you are not blaming him then you must blame the 'humanity' that you seem to believe in. you obviously abhor the crimes mentioned here & i would assume that would carry through to other viloating & harmful type crime too. what is your opinion of humanity for allowing all these horrible things to happen. since you obviously want to blame somebody other than the perpetrators whose fault is it?
bty, you never did answer me about how far should god interfering with our free choice go.

SFOSOK · Sep 24, 2005, 12:54 AM

I stopped reading your guys posts at the first one. This is about a great deal of horrible acts and how those reflect on the Catholic Church as a whole, not who ever can disect each other's posts more to be the last one posting on an inactive thread (which it may soon be)

Gabriel_Etranil · Sep 24, 2005, 01:02 AM

So Attropheed when are you going to start 'criticizing' Islam, if your so adamant again religion why are you focused only on Christianty based religions? There is still Hinduism, Judaism, Buddhism, and numerous other religions to 'attack'.

What is there, 2.1 Billion Christians in the world and 10 priest(those listed) are pediphiles, what are the chances of that? There are around 500,000 registered sex offenders in the USA right now(do the math on those statistics). How many of those registered(known) sex offenders are atheist? How many are Buddists? If only 500,000 are in the US, what of Canada and Mexico? What of Europe, Asia, South America, Africa, and Australia? What are the religious affilliations of the sex offenders in those countrys/continents?

Most people that are sick in the mind infiltrate places that people would least expect them to be demented. How many people would cry foul if psycological tests were required prior to working in certain career fields?

Was Jesus a pedophile? Was Buddha? How about Muhammad?

If somebody actually took the time to compile a list of all sex offenders worldwide, which country they preside in, and their religious affiliation, what would the outcome be? Would Christianity have the most people or would they have the least percentage, or both?

Do the acts of the few actually reflect on the view of the whole? If anybody actually says yes to that apply it to any other situation and see if still fits.

AttroPheed · Sep 24, 2005, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike2h

since you obviously want to blame somebody other than the perpetrators whose fault is it?

The rapists are blamed. Make no mistake. I was merely wondering how religious types justify their god's own priests raping children in a church. I can't blame something on a god because I don't believe it exists. Certainly, humanity has let these children down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike2h

bty, you never did answer me about how far should god interfering with our free choice go.

He should go as far as it takes to stop a rapist from exercising his free will to rob a person of theirs? I dunno. How far should the trix rabbit go for a bowl of cereal?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabriel_Etranil

So Attropheed when are you going to start 'criticizing' [all the other religions]?

When they maneuver a political party into power that wants to abolish key parts of the bill of rights I suppose.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabriel_Etranil

What is there, 2.1 Billion Christians in the world and 10 priest(those listed) are pediphiles, what are the chances of that? There are around 500,000 registered sex offenders in the USA right now(do the math on those statistics). How many of those registered(known) sex offenders are atheist? How many are Buddists? If only 500,000 are in the US, what of Canada and Mexico? What of Europe, Asia, South America, Africa, and Australia? What are the religious affilliations of the sex offenders in those countrys/continents?

No one at any point stated that all pederasts are religious or vice versa.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabriel_Etranil

Do the acts of the few actually reflect on the view of the whole? If anybody actually says yes to that apply it to any other situation and see if still fits.

Let's imagine that 4% of your favorite grocery store's work force over the last 52 years are pederasts. Do you still go there to get Doritos? I surely don't.

Since you're interested in numbers I found these to be rather poignant:

Quote:

Originally Posted by http://www.wavy.com/global/story.asp?s=1674337&ClientType=Printable

U.S. clerics accused of abuse from 1950-2002: 4,392. That's about 4 percent of the 109,694 serving during those 52 years.

Individuals making accusations: 10,667.

Victims' ages: 5.8 percent under 7; 16 percent ages 8-10; 50.9 percent ages 11-14; 27.3 percent ages 15-17.

Victims' gender: 81 percent male, 19 percent female.

Duration of abuse: Among victims, 38.4 percent said all incidents occurred within one year; 21.8 percent said one to two years; 28 percent, two to four years; 11.8 percent longer

Victims per priest: 55.7 percent with one victim; 26.9 percent with two or three; 13.9 percent with four to nine; 3.5 percent with 10 or more (these 149 priests caused 27 percent of allegations).

Abuse locations: 40.9 percent at priest's residence; 16.3 percent in church; 42.8 percent elsewhere.

Known cost to dioceses and religious orders: $572,507,094 (does not include the $85 million Boston settlement and other expenses after research was concluded).

mike2h · Sep 24, 2005, 03:54 AM

Quote:

The rapists are blamed. Make no mistake. I was merely wondering how religious types justify their god's own priests raping children in a church. I can't blame something on a god because I don't believe it exists. Certainly, humanity has let these children down.

but you were blaming it on god. - "Well 'god' is everywhere, why doesnt He stop it instead of just watching?"
if you truly do not believe in him why do you keep wanting to make him accountable for everybodys actions? if you were truly an atheist who was just trying to have a discussion about atheism vs religion your answers would be much more thought out & questioning than they have. basically all you have been able to say is that god & religion/faith sucks.

Quote:

He should go as far as it takes to stop a rapist from exercising his free will to rob a person of theirs? I dunno. How far should the trix rabbit go for a bowl of cereal?

so should god intervene if i stop you from crossing a street since i am interfering with your free will? no need to answer since you have resorted to non responsive answers our discussion as come to an end.

Gabriel_Etranil · Sep 24, 2005, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Since you're interested in numbers I found these to be rather poignant:

Now show the same/similar statistics from every other country in the world from the past 52 years.

Necrosis · Sep 24, 2005, 06:00 AM

I'm making a statement on the existence of god, and not on the topic of this thread. I don't think I should to since they should be kicked out of the church, then put in jail.

If we were to find out god does not exist there would be pure chaos. I'm not going to say why. Just give it some thought.

digerati · Sep 24, 2005, 07:31 AM

I haven't posted in here in a long time because I'm so busy with work and school I haven't even had a day to sleep in for over a month.

Attro, you sound like you know as much religion as I know nuclear science which is minimal. You may think you know a lot but you definitely don't see things through the eyes of those you argue with.

What these priests did was wrong. But God didn't have anything to do with it. And that seems to be your problem, that he didn't have anything to do with it. The Christian God is not there to right the wrongs of the world. He is there to give guidance to those who want to walk the path of light. He isn't here to force the light onto anyone, and I'm sure if he did force it you'd be mad because of abuse of power.

A growing number of registered sex offenders are women. On a news report they had a Psychologist who handled women sex offenders and she said:

"You wouldn't believe some of the things these women say. One woman tried to convince me that her 11 year old son was hitting on her."

This news report obviously spoke of the evils of women, hence forth we should get rid of women. Do you agree? Of course not. Because we need women. And some people need God for the same reasons. For love, for support, for feeling wanted. And some people want God for the same reason they want women. Perversion, greed, etc.

Just because you have a problem with religion doesn't mean you have to argue it. That isn't a debate. You can't de-funk religion because it's a faith based ideology. Just like science is a fact based ideology. Religion and science do not go hand in hand. They are nothing alike, if science is an apple, then Christianity is the lug nuts on your car.

If you want to defunk something, defunk something Christianity does because of Christianity. A good topic would be the Catholics telling the Africans that condoms don't protect against aids because they don't believe in condoms and letting the disease spread.

As for me. My father tried to force religion down my throat for years. He also told me he was destined to have me, destined to have a Jewish son. And he would say those things after he would take his heroine. I saw first hand how a horrible man used God to forgive his sins, and how he abused the system and I despise him for it. But I have met people who used God to walk the good path and would never falter. So I've learned from both, I suggest you do the same.

And I am currently: Agnostic, leaning more towards Athiest.

Sandok · Sep 24, 2005, 07:34 AM

Religion is a curse. Simple. No religion, 90% of this world's problems are gone.

Sep 23, 2005, 11:27 AM	#1
TJ- DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Infinity Posts: 3,679 Rep Power: 0	Pedophile Priests - Mature Content These are the kinds of things that Archdiocese priests did to children: • A girl, 11 years old, was raped by her priest and became pregnant. The Father took her in for an abortion. • A 5th-grader was molested by her priest inside the confessional booth. • A teenage girl was groped by her priest while she lay immobilized in traction in a hospital bed. The priest stopped only when the girl was able to ring for a nurse. • A boy was repeatedly molested in his own school auditorium, where his priest/teacher bent the boy over and rubbed his genitals against the boy until the priest ejaculated. • A priest, no longer satisfied with mere pederasty, regularly began forcing sex on two boys at once in his bed. • A boy woke up intoxicated in a priest’s bed to find the Father sucking on his penis while three other priests watched and masturbated themselves. • A priest offered money to boys in exchange for sadomasochism – directing them to place him in bondage, to “break” him, to make him their “slave,” and to defecate so that he could lick excrement from them. • A 12-year-old, who was raped and sodomized by his priest, tried to commit suicide, and remains institutionalized in a mental hospital as an adult. • A priest told a 12-year-old boy that his mother knew of and had agreed to the priest’s repeated rape of her son. • A boy who told his father about the abuse his younger brother was suffering was beaten to the point of unconsciousness. “Priests don’t do that,” said the father as he punished his son for what he thought was a vicious lie against the clergy. The Grand Jury Report Confession Anyone? __________________ new sig comming soon

Sep 23, 2005, 11:30 AM	Thread Starter #2
TJ- DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Infinity Posts: 3,679 Rep Power: 0	Just letting people know the truth mods... Delete if you want to hide the truth... __________________ new sig comming soon

Sep 23, 2005, 01:14 PM	#4
Dark Lord HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 5,945 Rep Power: 125 System Specs	itll turn into a flame war, i can tell you that much. it also holds truth in it too. __________________

Sep 23, 2005, 01:49 PM	#6
AttroPheed DriverHeaven Addict Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Paris Posts: 386 Rep Power: 0	I don't think there could be a flame war because it would mean you're taking the side of child rapists. Believers kinda just have to ignore this one I guess. Or delete it. __________________ "Facts seldom interfere with belief." - James Randi "Where knowledge ends, superstition begins." - Some Guy "A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence." - David Hume [COLOR=red]Flying Spaghetti Is Lord!![/COLOR] My PC Stats

Sep 23, 2005, 03:29 PM	#8
swimtech HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 4,040 Rep Power: 124 System Specs	Threre's sick minded people everywhere, including those who make their living in the church... __________________ It's not so much getting your way that matters or not - what matters is how you go about getting it.

Sep 23, 2005, 02:06 PM	#7
br00ksintexas DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: May 2005 Location: Watauga, Texas (Just N. of Ft. Worth and S. of Keller) Posts: 119 Rep Power: 0	While I agree that the report is the truth, Zion, I disagree that it's because of" Religion and GOD being a beautiful thing". I've personally seen no where in the bible where it says for preists to become pedophiles. Have you seen it? If so, please pass the scripture on to the rest of us. I wonder if anyone out there has ever researched the number of clergy ( of any and all faiths) vs. the number of those prosecuted or even accused of sex crimes.I for one would welcome those findings, as I'm somewhat curious about the ratio. Also, I'd like to point out, that I doubt anyone on this board, religious or not, wouldn't know about situations like these, if they even half-way follow the local and national news. It's hardly groundbreaking reporting at this point. And Attro, if you weren't so bitter towards religious folk, you wouldn't always ASSume they'd disbelieve anything that was negative about the clergy. People from all walks become clergy of all faiths. Wouldn't it be likely for sexual predators to hide in the cloth just as they hide in society in general? Or, does someone being in the clergy mean they're more likely to be a pedophile instead of a normal human being? I know I'm religious. I've yet to say anything negative about any of the facts posted about religion or religious people, whether in support or opposition of religion. Why do non-religious folk on this board choose to bring in their own opinionated negativity, when the facts they post, like the one's we see here this morning, speak for themself without the added b.s. Peace

Sep 23, 2005, 06:36 PM	#16
pr0digal jenius Delete Me Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 14,648 Rep Power: 0	first off, kudos for the interesting conversation. keep it clean, and we'll keep it open...start whinging, and we'll do otherwise. "why doesn't god do something" Why doesn't god give everyone enough food to eat? Why doesn't god keep crimes from happening? Why...why....why BECAUSE: -We are not automatons....we were given free will -God set everything in motion, this does NOT mean he actively partakes in everything

Sep 23, 2005, 06:39 PM	#17
AttroPheed DriverHeaven Addict Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Paris Posts: 386 Rep Power: 0	So then what's the deal with prayer? Why ask for anything if you get nothing? __________________ "Facts seldom interfere with belief." - James Randi "Where knowledge ends, superstition begins." - Some Guy "A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence." - David Hume [COLOR=red]Flying Spaghetti Is Lord!![/COLOR] My PC Stats

Sep 24, 2005, 12:54 AM	#23
SFOSOK 939 Goin Strong Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ontario Posts: 7,033 Rep Power: 90 System Specs	I stopped reading your guys posts at the first one. This is about a great deal of horrible acts and how those reflect on the Catholic Church as a whole, not who ever can disect each other's posts more to be the last one posting on an inactive thread (which it may soon be) __________________ Warning - Explicit Content Preceeding METAL!!

Sep 24, 2005, 01:02 AM	#24
Gabriel_Etranil DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 186 Rep Power: 0	So Attropheed when are you going to start 'criticizing' Islam, if your so adamant again religion why are you focused only on Christianty based religions? There is still Hinduism, Judaism, Buddhism, and numerous other religions to 'attack'. What is there, 2.1 Billion Christians in the world and 10 priest(those listed) are pediphiles, what are the chances of that? There are around 500,000 registered sex offenders in the USA right now(do the math on those statistics). How many of those registered(known) sex offenders are atheist? How many are Buddists? If only 500,000 are in the US, what of Canada and Mexico? What of Europe, Asia, South America, Africa, and Australia? What are the religious affilliations of the sex offenders in those countrys/continents? Most people that are sick in the mind infiltrate places that people would least expect them to be demented. How many people would cry foul if psycological tests were required prior to working in certain career fields? Was Jesus a pedophile? Was Buddha? How about Muhammad? If somebody actually took the time to compile a list of all sex offenders worldwide, which country they preside in, and their religious affiliation, what would the outcome be? Would Christianity have the most people or would they have the least percentage, or both? Do the acts of the few actually reflect on the view of the whole? If anybody actually says yes to that apply it to any other situation and see if still fits. __________________ "I want to believe the voice in my head, but it lies"

Sep 24, 2005, 06:00 AM	#28
Necrosis HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 8,838 Rep Power: 131 System Specs	I'm making a statement on the existence of god, and not on the topic of this thread. I don't think I should to since they should be kicked out of the church, then put in jail. If we were to find out god does not exist there would be pure chaos. I'm not going to say why. Just give it some thought.

Sep 24, 2005, 07:31 AM	#29
digerati Everyones life has worth Join Date: May 2003 Location: My Yellow Bug Posts: 3,779 Rep Power: 0	I haven't posted in here in a long time because I'm so busy with work and school I haven't even had a day to sleep in for over a month. Attro, you sound like you know as much religion as I know nuclear science which is minimal. You may think you know a lot but you definitely don't see things through the eyes of those you argue with. What these priests did was wrong. But God didn't have anything to do with it. And that seems to be your problem, that he didn't have anything to do with it. The Christian God is not there to right the wrongs of the world. He is there to give guidance to those who want to walk the path of light. He isn't here to force the light onto anyone, and I'm sure if he did force it you'd be mad because of abuse of power. A growing number of registered sex offenders are women. On a news report they had a Psychologist who handled women sex offenders and she said: "You wouldn't believe some of the things these women say. One woman tried to convince me that her 11 year old son was hitting on her." This news report obviously spoke of the evils of women, hence forth we should get rid of women. Do you agree? Of course not. Because we need women. And some people need God for the same reasons. For love, for support, for feeling wanted. And some people want God for the same reason they want women. Perversion, greed, etc. Just because you have a problem with religion doesn't mean you have to argue it. That isn't a debate. You can't de-funk religion because it's a faith based ideology. Just like science is a fact based ideology. Religion and science do not go hand in hand. They are nothing alike, if science is an apple, then Christianity is the lug nuts on your car. If you want to defunk something, defunk something Christianity does because of Christianity. A good topic would be the Catholics telling the Africans that condoms don't protect against aids because they don't believe in condoms and letting the disease spread. As for me. My father tried to force religion down my throat for years. He also told me he was destined to have me, destined to have a Jewish son. And he would say those things after he would take his heroine. I saw first hand how a horrible man used God to forgive his sins, and how he abused the system and I despise him for it. But I have met people who used God to walk the good path and would never falter. So I've learned from both, I suggest you do the same. And I am currently: Agnostic, leaning more towards Athiest.

Sep 24, 2005, 07:34 AM	#30
Sandok DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 9,472 Rep Power: 0	Religion is a curse. Simple. No religion, 90% of this world's problems are gone.